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Emmanuel Adebayor - Officially gone \o/

ArcspacE said:
I don't hate Ade if this what you're implying - if you look a few pages back you'd see my reaction to those knocking him for the pre-match interview - which I thought he did nothing wrong.

What I do find bizarre is the continuous victimisation of Defoe IRRESPECTIVE of how he performs, coming out with the tired old punch-lines of 'goals only, creates little, flat-track bully, etc.

I think Ade is a better all-round outlet to Defoe on a good day, but I will happily hold my hand up and admit the latter had a good impact on out games yesterday while the former was invisible throughout. For some bizarre reason however - that can never be accepted by some or even tolerated as an opinion on a discussion board.
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Nope, not aimed at you mate...aimed at the thread. If I was going to tag you mate, I'd be direct (ish)! ;-)

Yes, I've got very tired of defending Defoe over the years.

I agree his impact was magnificent, and it's why I and others were hoping him and Hudd would get on (thoug AVB getting Holtby on was as important)...I don't think Ade was anonymous, he was isolated! Very different shape for Defoe to work in and a tiring City defence. They're both very diff players and I respect what each has given us this season. There is plenty of context to Ade's season, not the least of which he has not been an out and out striker for some months.
 
Jurgen the German said:
I understand the reasoning behind that, but I don't agree. Reason being we may be struggling for a goal, missing chances and instead of being 1-0 down, we could be 2 or 3-0 down and the game is essentially over. I know Defoe's overall game isn't great, but he's more likely to get us a goal and his general play in the first half of the season was far better than anything Ade has done this season. I'm not saying he's done it lately, but I think he is more likely to play better and score more goals than Ade for the remainder of the season.

I can't believe the levels people are sinking to to devalue Defoe yesterday. Claiming the system suited him better, he still had a hell of a lot to do to beat Joe Hart, can you honestly say Ade would have even troubled the keeper in the same position let alone scored?

I would say Ade's performances this season have earned him an E grade, and that's being generous.

Here's a question: People reckon AVB is asking Ade to play a different role and go wide more often, do you think that's because AVB wants Bale and the other midfielders to get the goals and for Ade to stay the hell out of the way?
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I think AVB is practical.

If you ave Gareth Bale in the scintillating form he's been in, and if you have Bale converting what, one out of every three great chances he gets, then absolutely, when one of your star strikers is low on confidence in front of goal (as we have seen from some of Ade's bizarre misses) then you either drop them or find another way to utilize their talents. IMO AVB realized that Ade is a very physical presence upfront who will not only hold the ball up but give defenders a tough game. It's not always obvious but he's doing it. He's doing the water-carrying much of the time. I'm sure he's not delighted about it either. But there's little doubt in my mind that defenders mark Ade and thus if he drags people away from central positions, it allows Bale (even Lennon, perhaps Dempsey) a little more time and space to work something.The ideal, for me, would be to have a passing midfielder and an in-form Ade, Bale and Lennon with JD coming on second-half to punish (of course we'd need to mix that up with Defoe starting a few too)...

As to your question of whether Ade could've done what Defoe did...absolutely not. Defoe has a trademark and that's it for e. He is one of the very best at it. I will never forget seeing him fudged about repeatedly and basically lied to by Jol; he was absolutely electric back then, a livewire, yet in trying to 'make him a better all-round player' he lost a spark and some vital confidence for a few years. That he managed to get it back is testimony to his work ethic IMHO...JD's been a fave of mine here for many years, and frankly, I've cut his poor performances more slack than I should've in the past.
 
thfcsteff said:
I think AVB is practical.

If you ave Gareth Bale in the scintillating form he's been in, and if you have Bale converting what, one out of every three great chances he gets, then absolutely, when one of your star strikers is low on confidence in front of goal (as we have seen from some of Ade's bizarre misses) then you either drop them or find another way to utilize their talents. IMO AVB realized that Ade is a very physical presence upfront who will not only hold the ball up but give defenders a tough game. It's not always obvious but he's doing it. He's doing the water-carrying much of the time. I'm sure he's not delighted about it either. But there's little doubt in my mind that defenders mark Ade and thus if he drags people away from central positions, it allows Bale (even Lennon, perhaps Dempsey) a little more time and space to work something.The ideal, for me, would be to have a passing midfielder and an in-form Ade, Bale and Lennon with JD coming on second-half to punish (of course we'd need to mix that up with Defoe starting a few too)...

As to your question of whether Ade could've done what Defoe did...absolutely not. Defoe has a trademark and that's it for e. He is one of the very best at it. I will never forget seeing him fudged about repeatedly and basically lied to by Jol; he was absolutely electric back then, a livewire, yet in trying to 'make him a better all-round player' he lost a spark and some vital confidence for a few years. That he managed to get it back is testimony to his work ethic IMHO...JD's been a fave of mine here for many years, and frankly, I've cut his poor performances more slack than I should've in the past.
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Interesting.

Can you eleborate a bit more about your thoughts on this please?
 
glorygloryeze said:
Interesting.

Can you eleborate a bit more about your thoughts on this please?
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Indeed, and this possibly a personal perspective so be interesting to see how others remember it...basically, Jol always talked up how the in-form striker would be the one to play with Berba out of Keane and Defoe. Early season, Defoe was smashing goals in, doing what he did, he played for England in a friendly and Ericsson came out and said he felt Defoe needed to 'adapt' his game to be an England starter. Jol agreed that he needed to adapt and develop. We saw Defoe do this, Keane got injured one Xmas, JD came in for 9 matches or so, delivered the goals in partnership with Berba but got fudged when Keane was fit as Jol reinstated Keane despite claiming a meritocracy!!!
 
He's been tinkle poor this season. He doesn't compete for headers anymore, his hold up play occasionally flashes back to how good it was last season but a lot of time he loses possession or is simply not making himself available. This is without talking about his finishing, he does not even seem to be in the right areas to score. I can't really remember a more disappointing season by a player. I'm very glad Defoe's back.
 
Superhudd said:
lol.. I work. Split between home and work, but I'm not a prolific poster, I swear most people on here who post a lot are just repeating themselves over and over till they beat down other posters to agree. )
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In the history of GG I don't think I've ever seen one person change their mind and accept someone else's opposing opinion's as true.
 
thfcsteff said:
I think AVB is practical.

If you ave Gareth Bale in the scintillating form he's been in, and if you have Bale converting what, one out of every three great chances he gets, then absolutely, when one of your star strikers is low on confidence in front of goal (as we have seen from some of Ade's bizarre misses) then you either drop them or find another way to utilize their talents. IMO AVB realized that Ade is a very physical presence upfront who will not only hold the ball up but give defenders a tough game. It's not always obvious but he's doing it. He's doing the water-carrying much of the time. I'm sure he's not delighted about it either. But there's little doubt in my mind that defenders mark Ade and thus if he drags people away from central positions, it allows Bale (even Lennon, perhaps Dempsey) a little more time and space to work something.The ideal, for me, would be to have a passing midfielder and an in-form Ade, Bale and Lennon with JD coming on second-half to punish (of course we'd need to mix that up with Defoe starting a few too)..
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I've made this point on here before, don't remember getting a satisfactory answer.

If Ade's not shooting (let alone scoring), not winning aerial battles and his every touch ends up in a opposition throw (at best), why are we paying him so much to 'occupy defenders'?

I would occupy defenders for a fraction of his pay and I suspect my attempts to control the ball or win it in the air would have the same effect. Even better, we have a load of youth players who may or may not be any good. If we tell them to occupy defenders and be selfless, one or more may even turn out to be able to pass, shoot or win a header - a vast improvement on what we currently have.
 
scaramanga said:
I've made this point on here before, don't remember getting a satisfactory answer.

If Ade's not shooting (let alone scoring), not winning aerial battles and his every touch ends up in a opposition throw (at best), why are we paying him so much to 'occupy defenders'?

I would occupy defenders for a fraction of his pay and I suspect my attempts to control the ball or win it in the air would have the same effect. Even better, we have a load of youth players who may or may not be any good. If we tell them to occupy defenders and be selfless, one or more may even turn out to be able to pass, shoot or win a header - a vast improvement on what we currently have.
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I am not defending the way that Ade has played but the precise words you have used are not wholly accurate. He does win aerial battles (not often enough) and he contests them, making defenders work (and thus tire). His EVERY touch does not (at best) go out for a throw in. Too many of them do, but sometimes he does pass to another Spurs player. IF AVB decides to persevere with him and bring Defoe on as an impact sub (Defoe is not fully fit) I am confident he will tell Ade to do a job that suits the team.

Sorry to be picky about your words. Ade frustrates the hell out of me but he's pretty much our only fully-fit striker who isn't from the Academy/U-21 squad.
 
90291Spur said:
I am not defending the way that Ade has played but the precise words you have used are not wholly accurate. He does win aerial battles (not often enough) and he contests them, making defenders work (and thus tire). His EVERY touch does not (at best) go out for a throw in. Too many of them do, but sometimes he does pass to another Spurs player. IF AVB decides to persevere with him and bring Defoe on as an impact sub (Defoe is not fully fit) I am confident he will tell Ade to do a job that suits the team.

Sorry to be picky about your words. Ade frustrates the hell out of me but he's pretty much our only fully-fit striker who isn't from the Academy/U-21 squad.
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That was the serious side of my point though - can they really be any worse? There's a chance they'll be better.

Whilst he may not be losing every touch of the ball, how man times this season has the ball gone to Ade where he's left us in a better position than before he had it? On a good day we're talking once or twice a match at the moment - even Parker is managing more than that.
 
scaramanga said:
I've made this point on here before, don't remember getting a satisfactory answer.

If Ade's not shooting (let alone scoring), not winning aerial battles and his every touch ends up in a opposition throw (at best), why are we paying him so much to 'occupy defenders'?

I would occupy defenders for a fraction of his pay and I suspect my attempts to control the ball or win it in the air would have the same effect. Even better, we have a load of youth players who may or may not be any good. If we tell them to occupy defenders and be selfless, one or more may even turn out to be able to pass, shoot or win a header - a vast improvement on what we currently have.
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Completely agree with you. He's not scoring, assisting goals, creating chances and he rarely wins headers. Like you say, £100k a week for a forward that simply marks defenders is nonsensical for a club that has a strict wage structure. He gets credit for "wearing opposition defenders down". Most footballers, actually most athletes in general tend to tire after 60-70 minutes of running around.
 
scaramanga said:
I've made this point on here before, don't remember getting a satisfactory answer.

If Ade's not shooting (let alone scoring), not winning aerial battles and his every touch ends up in a opposition throw (at best), why are we paying him so much to 'occupy defenders'?

I would occupy defenders for a fraction of his pay and I suspect my attempts to control the ball or win it in the air would have the same effect. Even better, we have a load of youth players who may or may not be any good. If we tell them to occupy defenders and be selfless, one or more may even turn out to be able to pass, shoot or win a header - a vast improvement on what we currently have.
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In which case you should visit the club and offer your services. Seriously mate, you wouldn't last 30 minutes and you're probably one of the better players who contributes here.
My other reply would be, why do you think it is that AVB, Freund and everyone else on the coaching staff hasn't taken your suggestion re: youth players? Methinks there has to be a reason...
 
Jurgen the German said:
Completely agree with you. He's not scoring, assisting goals, creating chances and he rarely wins headers. Like you say, £100k a week for a forward that simply marks defenders is nonsensical for a club that has a strict wage structure. He gets credit for "wearing opposition defenders down". Most footballers, actually most athletes in general tend to tire after 60-70 minutes of running around.
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I think the point has to be that whether he is ludicrously overpaid or not is currently irrelevant to getting what we can from him.
 
thfcsteff said:
I think the point has to be that whether he is ludicrously overpaid or not is currently irrelevant to getting what we can from him.
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I was genuinely excited when we signed him on loan. I mean I didn't follow him too closely at the goons but he always seemed a handful against us. His descent this season into utter shambles is really shocking and makes me wonder whether he has an issue with the coaches.
 
Robspur12 said:
I was genuinely excited when we signed him on loan. I mean I didn't follow him too closely at the goons but he always seemed a handful against us. His descent this season into utter shambles is really shocking and makes me wonder whether he has an issue with the coaches.
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It's happened at so many clubs though. Was watching Justified yesterday and there was a quote that fits. 'If you bump into an asshole in the morning, you bumped into an asshole. If you bump into assholes all day then you're the asshole.'
 
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