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Daniel Levy - Chairman

Raziel said:
I remember boring boring/1-0 to the Scum years, it's more 20+ years of CL revenue that I was referencing that gave them an advantage

Not sure I agree we had the opportunity to overtake them in a single moment (again, think this is a bit of a misconception, would be kind of like Leicester or West Ham saying they had a moment to overtake us permanently), you get ahead, you have to constantly work to keep ahead. But for arguments sake

1. Bale and Modric came too early, no amount of investment was going to allow us to keep them over Madrid. That has been proven years later where with the step up, we have been far less vulnerable to selling (when we don't want to)
2. Poch (and my opinion here is a lot more mixed than others) and the club had the context of Stadium, typical Spurs, good thing happens at worst possible time. The Stadium had to happen (it is what to your later point keeps Chelsea/Arsenal in reach financially), having to fudging move the point after our undefeated home season, having to live with some financial constraint, and at peak Poch years, that's brick timing.
3. Conte got Deki, Bentancur, Porro (we completely pushed the boat out for him on that), decided to be a dingdong about Spence, Biss as well?

You point re us paying the price in Sugar era is 100%, we have been in catchup ever since.

I don't disagree with the basic premise, could ENIC have been braver? 100%

I also believe we have the potential, my caveat is we don't have the "right" to be there (as some people think), it needs to be earned, and regardless of owners, or bravery, we will likely always been fighting in a rigged system (unless we become one of the cheats)
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I wouldn’t say it was a single moment but more that the opportunity was there to build our brand.

I would agree that with Bale and Modric, at some point they would have left, my issue is more that we didn’t really capitalise on them when they were there.
Players leave i get that, it’s just ours leave not because they have achieved everything they can and want a new challenge but because they don’t feel they can achieve what they want at Spurs.

Would agree there is no divine right but i do feel at times there is a section of our own fanbase who seem to try to tell others we should accept our place.
it’s kind of galling. I now live in Singapore, my kids goto school where the biggest supported club is Emirates Marketing Project( I think i went through my childhood in east london never meeting one city fan). They constantly get asked, why do you support Tottenham so it saddens me a little when I see others within our own fanbase questioning our potential
 
RigorMortis said:
I wouldn’t say it was a single moment but more that the opportunity was there to build our brand.

I would agree that with Bale and Modric, at some point they would have left, my issue is more that we didn’t really capitalise on them when they were there.
Players leave i get that, it’s just ours leave not because they have achieved everything they can and want a new challenge but because they don’t feel they can achieve what they want at Spurs.

Would agree there is no divine right but i do feel at times there is a section of our own fanbase who seem to try to tell others we should accept our place.
it’s kind of galling. I now live in Singapore, my kids goto school where the biggest supported club is Emirates Marketing Project( I think i went through my childhood in east london never meeting one city fan). They constantly get asked, why do you support Tottenham so it saddens me a little when I see others within our own fanbase questioning our potential
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We should never accept our place

But this is a much broader conversation we as a fanbase should have if we want to have something other than clickbait/narrative/who can shout the loudest conversations.

I'll give an example, the trophies conversation, ENIC has been a disaster, ok, are most fans aware that if ENIC had won 2 additional trophies in the 20+ years (and we have been to QF/SF/Finals/Top 3 over 24 times), we would be bang on average for the club's entire history?

Similar with the money, in what world would we outspend City or United? or Saudi Sportswashing Machine, and if you can't outspend 3 or 4 clubs, what are you risking to push your spend beyond the top 4/5 it already is in?

Similar with comparisons to others, Forest, Brighton, was Leicester, this story goes all the way back to Charlton where flavor of the year club improves their decision making, gets a few good buys, has a good run for a few seasons then reverts to norm.

Said it before, ENIC has future proofed Spurs, the infrastructure, the brand build, the participation in top 6 for almost 2 decades now has built a base, and I get, we haven't pushed on from that base (this season is an abnormality btw, regardless of final result, we won't be this bad next season).

And all fans are entitled to want more success, fudge, demand more success, but the naivety of the viewpoint that the difference between Spurs stagnating and us winning the league/whatever is 50M -150M in extra spend? not sure I buy that.
 
Great rebuttals chaps, a mighty good read.
[[Reminder that every time Levy spends big on a player and breaks our record transfer, they turn out to be a waste of money... hence buying younger players that have good attitudes, hopefully]]

The recruitment in the next 6 days will tell us a huge amount about our future over the next few years.
If we sign nobody, or 1 kid, that tells me a massive amount about Levy/Lange/the plan/the size of squad/the wage ratio/the ambition.
If we sign a few promising players, that also tells me a lot.
We will know a *lot* more on Feb 4th.
 
billyiddo said:
Google : Glazers Man Utd Dividends.

Loads of sources - one year it seems they took over 30m.

Someone has said Levy/ ENIC don't take dividends - haven't checked that out myself built would be interesting to see if other clubs owners do and where that then puts ours in comparison
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ENIC have never taken any money out, to date
I’ve heard it claimed they have taken land… I’ve never seen that and I looked into that because I’m sad git
They have however put in less than £200m for an asset valued at over 10 times that
That’s a hell of a return
You won’t ever see that again in football
 
Bedfordspurs said:
ENIC have never taken any money out, to date
I’ve heard it claimed they have taken land… I’ve never seen that and I looked into that because I’m sad git
They have however put in less than £200m for an asset valued at over 10 times that
That’s a hell of a return
You won’t ever see that again in football
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The figure was actually 27 million at over 200 times that. They actually value it as 450 that. Maybe more. Its said Levy wants 6 billion.

That was their initial investment though. The rest was all borrowed in our name and paid by spurs fans.
 
Bedfordspurs said:
ENIC have never taken any money out, to date
I’ve heard it claimed they have taken land… I’ve never seen that and I looked into that because I’m sad git
They have however put in less than £200m for an asset valued at over 10 times that
That’s a hell of a return
You won’t ever see that again in football
Click to expand...

What was it worth when they put that in?

And why don’t they get any credit for that?

Football inflation adjusted, it’s not insignificant.
 
RigorMortis said:
I haven’t assumed anything about you. Why would I?

Of course I can’t address what the exact change is,
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So you acknowledge that asking for change is a leap of faith. And that change could be negative as well as positive? Are you a gambler?

and why on earth should I? Which fan who doesn’t have specific inside knowledge of the footballing industry and our club in particular, can have that ?
RigorMortis said:
That’s utterly bizarre

We can say we want change because we support the club but apart from support we have little or no say in the matter, however we can view the state of the club, the the results, the progress over ENIC’s reign, compare it against our peers/rivals and give an informed opinion.
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And when you benchmark our performance, compared to other clubs that we were similar to pre-Enic, what does your analysis tell you?
RigorMortis said:
Why on earth should it be anything more than that?
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Batspur said:
The figure was actually 27 million at over 200 times that. They actually value it as 450 that. Maybe more. Its said Levy wants 6 billion.

That was their initial investment though. The rest was all borrowed in our name and paid by spurs fans.
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Sorry but your wrong
They brought the club for the intiial figure of £22m
Then brought more shares to take it off the market
Then gave the club £111m of the £150 they said the club could draw down on
None of that is club debt
The stadium is and the COVID debt is too
I’ve never read anything about £6B
 
Bedfordspurs said:
Sorry but your wrong
They brought the club for the intiial figure of £22m
Then brought more shares to take it off the market
Then gave the club £111m of the £150 they said the club could draw down on
None of that is club debt
The stadium is and the COVID debt is too
I’ve never read anything about £6B
Click to expand...
6bn has never been mentioned. Most sensible people put the value of the club at 2bn or a bit higher. Rumour is that ENIC would want 3bn minimum as I remember it (was discussed around the time the Qataris were meant to be interested).

This is why it’s hard to have a discussion with most of the “ENIC out” phalanx. There is a case for new owners but you end up arguing against wild statements. This week I’ve seen or heard:

“Levy earns 6m a year”

“Levy wants 6bn for the club”

“Levy is waiting for the window to close to sack Ange so he doesn’t have to spend”

“Levy has no interest in on pitch success”

“In Levy’s time, we’ve signed two good players - Berbatov and Bale”

“ENIC are siphoning off money”

It’s mad stuff. And then you have people talking as if we were up to our bollox in trophies before ENIC arrived. As @Raziel mentions, we are two trophies short under ENIC of our average as a club.
 
DeanoAustin said:
6bn has never been mentioned. Most sensible people put the value of the club at 2bn or a bit higher. Rumour is that ENIC would want 3bn minimum as I remember it (was discussed around the time the Qataris were meant to be interested).

This is why it’s hard to have a discussion with most of the “ENIC out” phalanx. There is a case for new owners but you end up arguing against wild statements. This week I’ve seen or heard:

“Levy earns 6m a year”

“Levy wants 6bn for the club”

“Levy is waiting for the window to close to sack Ange so he doesn’t have to spend”

“Levy has no interest in on pitch success”

“In Levy’s time, we’ve signed two good players - Berbatov and Bale”

“ENIC are siphoning off money”

It’s mad stuff. And then you have people talking as if we were up to our bollox in trophies before ENIC arrived. As @Raziel mentions, we are two trophies short under ENIC of our average as a club.
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The key issue is we all want changes and deeper pockets for the club
But as I’ve said loads today, if you can’t tell me how it’s gonna happen there isn’t a discussion to be had
What the happens is your get called names by people
It’s really odd and why I compared it to Brexit which wasn’t as big a thing for some people of course… but that was another example of we must have change, but we can’t tell you what it is
I’m very used to arguing and debating things. It’s probably 50% if my job. But I know I can’t win in this situations without being clear on the need and the outcome that my recommendations would make
I’d love to sit in front of a client and say you have to do what I want because it’s different and not explain what the difference is but just say the existing situation is brick… so you must change
Our recent almost success is partly Enic, partly luck, partly timing… so many things have to align because there are so many variables and even then …. We didn’t win the cups we could have
 
Bedfordspurs said:
Sorry but your wrong
They brought the club for the intiial figure of £22m
Then brought more shares to take it off the market
Then gave the club £111m of the £150 they said the club could draw down on
None of that is club debt
The stadium is and the COVID debt is too
I’ve never read anything about £6B
Click to expand...

What happened to the 39 million? Why did we not use/draw on it?
 
Raziel said:
We should never accept our place

But this is a much broader conversation we as a fanbase should have if we want to have something other than clickbait/narrative/who can shout the loudest conversations.

I'll give an example, the trophies conversation, ENIC has been a disaster, ok, are most fans aware that if ENIC had won 2 additional trophies in the 20+ years (and we have been to QF/SF/Finals/Top 3 over 24 times), we would be bang on average for the club's entire history?

Similar with the money, in what world would we outspend City or United? or Saudi Sportswashing Machine, and if you can't outspend 3 or 4 clubs, what are you risking to push your spend beyond the top 4/5 it already is in?

Similar with comparisons to others, Forest, Brighton, was Leicester, this story goes all the way back to Charlton where flavor of the year club improves their decision making, gets a few good buys, has a good run for a few seasons then reverts to norm.

Said it before, ENIC has future proofed Spurs, the infrastructure, the brand build, the participation in top 6 for almost 2 decades now has built a base, and I get, we haven't pushed on from that base (this season is an abnormality btw, regardless of final result, we won't be this bad next season).

And all fans are entitled to want more success, fudge, demand more success, but the naivety of the viewpoint that the difference between Spurs stagnating and us winning the league/whatever is 50M -150M in extra spend? not sure I buy that.
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Top post. Fully agree.

For sure Levy has made mistakes. And it's always the comparison to either the money doping clubs or the "flavour of the year" club. But good solid decision making allowing a club to outperform their financial situation over a long time is really rare.

Some of the biggest errors Levy made imo has been trusting the people he trusted from when we stopped signing very talented young players under Poch until Paratici came in. I want him to trust the football people in charge of recruitment and squad building, but he trusted the wrong people.

Imo we're clearly moving in the right direction again. There will always be setbacks and disappointments, didn't expect one this big, but then again also didn't expect this injury crisis. But the positive trajectory is there with regards to squad building for the future and that's always been a necessity for us to become good.
 
Bullet said:
Great rebuttals chaps, a mighty good read.
[[Reminder that every time Levy spends big on a player and breaks our record transfer, they turn out to be a waste of money... hence buying younger players that have good attitudes, hopefully]]

The recruitment in the next 6 days will tell us a huge amount about our future over the next few years.
If we sign nobody, or 1 kid, that tells me a massive amount about Levy/Lange/the plan/the size of squad/the wage ratio/the ambition.
If we sign a few promising players, that also tells me a lot.
We will know a *lot* more on Feb 4th.
Click to expand...
We won't sign a few players, January isn't the time for that. If we can pull forward a couple of planned signings for the summer or get a couple of loans in to get us over the injury crisis then that will be a good window.
 
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