Daniel Levy - Chairman

[metalgear]

To be fair Levy has done well to stabilise and grow the assets and visibility of the club.

Lack of trust in football management is his downfall. Valuing the anonymous transfer committee decisions above the managers hs not worked but he persists. It reeks of big bureaucracy illnesses like cronyism or the emperor has no clothes phenomenon.

The manager is always shafted at the end. Thfc management remain blameless.
The season ticket fans get the shortest end of the stick.

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[BrainOfLevy]

That's for training ground etc... aswell. Not just the team.

I guess it's how you look at it. Leicester are financially doped. Spurs are self sustaining. If leicester owners closed the purse tomorrow and leicester didn't get cl. They face doing a leeds or sunderland.

Do they actually face doing a Leeds or Sunderland? I think the ‘don’t wanna do a Leeds’ bogeyman scenario has been something that has benefitted ENIC, maybe a little bit more than it should have. I definitely don’t want to do a Leeds, but I think there is a middle ground between that and going for it a little bit.

But even if they did go back to the Championship, a couple of the biggest prizes on offer for their trouble is nothing to be sniffed at. But the likelihood is they get bought by someone else, and roll the dice again.

ENIC are great for keeping us in the top 6. Are they the surest things for helping us take the step from here.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

To be fair Levy has done well to stabilise and grow the assets and visibility of the club.

Lack of trust in football management is his downfall. Valuing the anonymous transfer committee decisions above the managers hs not worked but he persists. It reeks of big bureaucracy illnesses like cronyism or the emperor has no clothes phenomenon.

The manager is always shafted at the end. Thfc management remain blameless.
The season ticket fans get the shortest end of the stick.

Sent from my SM-T865 using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app

I think he trusts them just fine. He knows that most managers know more about football than he does. Problem is when the managers vision comes into conflict with the ENIC financial plan. In that instance ENIC win as long as they are the owners.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Funny how a fair few think our owners are great and Kroenke is awful at Arsenal, when they’re exactly the same.

massively agreed with this. Can’t take away that ENIC have gotten us back to the top 6, and Arsenal have fallen. But for all intents and purposes, when it comes to progressing today, we are exactly the same.

So much of the likely success of the club can be inferred from how the owners are.

 

[metalgear]

That conflict is a lack of trust that investments on the pitch will result in positive returns for the club. Inclusivity and diversity of views I get... But I've also seen weak management hide behind those same ideals to avoid direct responsibility.

I think he trusts them just fine. He knows that most managers know more about football than he does. Problem is when the managers vision comes into conflict with the ENIC financial plan. In that instance ENIC win as long as they are the owners.

Sent from my SM-T865 using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app

 

[Lilbaz]

To be fair Levy has done well to stabilise and grow the assets and visibility of the club.

Lack of trust in football management is his downfall. Valuing the anonymous transfer committee decisions above the managers hs not worked but he persists. It reeks of big bureaucracy illnesses like cronyism or the emperor has no clothes phenomenon.

The manager is always shafted at the end. Thfc management remain blameless.
The season ticket fans get the shortest end of the stick.

Sent from my SM-T865 using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app

The transfer committee isn't anonymous. It will be hitchens, the scouts, the manager, levy and whoevers in charge of finances. These are multi million £ deals. We have to know how much we can afford on a deal, if the player is worth that, if he fits in with the managers plans. All the main clubs will have a committee. The days of the manager doing deals on his own are long gone.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

That conflict is a lack of trust that investments on the pitch will result in positive returns for the club. Inclusivity and diversity of views I get... But I've also seen weak management hide behind those same ideals to avoid direct responsibility.

Sent from my SM-T865 using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app

I don’t really disagree with you. Comes back to my point of not believing the push on and real next step is worth it for them. I think if they really wanted to loosen the purse strings, they would have trusted Poch or Jose, and just went for it.

I’m not convinced the odd league title is worth enough to ENIC in financial terms for them to take the risk.

 

[Lilbaz]

Do they actually face doing a Leeds or Sunderland? I think the ‘don’t wanna do a Leeds’ bogeyman scenario has been something that has benefitted ENIC, maybe a little bit more than it should have. I definitely don’t want to do a Leeds, but I think there is a middle ground between that and going for it a little bit.

But even if they did go back to the Championship, a couple of the biggest prizes on offer for their trouble is nothing to be sniffed at. But the likelihood is they get bought by someone else, and roll the dice again.

ENIC are great for keeping us in the top 6. Are they the surest things for helping us take the step from here.

They don't face it because their owners are bankrolling them. I was saying hypothetically if they stopped tomorrow and they missed out on cl. Last season their wages were more than their turnover this season it will be a lot higher. They'd have to sell players to cover their losses and get their wage bill under control. That would almost certainly see them drop down the table. Out of europe they'd have to sell more, dropping them further. Possibly into relegation. Who knows?

It wont happen. And yes you are correct that they will probably be bought by someone else. But it is a risky strategy that a few clubs are following. Everton, villa... they can't all be successful. So how long do their owners try for before pulling the plug?

 

[BrainOfLevy]

They don't face it because their owners are bankrolling them. I was saying hypothetically if they stopped tomorrow and they missed out on cl. Last season their wages were more than their turnover this season it will be a lot higher. They'd have to sell players to cover their losses and get their wage bill under control. That would almost certainly see them drop down the table. Out of europe they'd have to sell more, dropping them further. Possibly into relegation. Who knows?

It wont happen. And yes you are correct that they will probably be bought by someone else. But it is a risky strategy that a few clubs are following. Everton, villa... they can't all be successful. So how long do their owners try for before pulling the plug?

No I get it, but that’s what I’m saying, in the event that they are sold, is it actually going to be a Leeds situation? I think these might be cautionary tales that competent owners use to keep the fan base behind them.

I agree there are horrible owners out there. There are also average owners. There are also great owners. And I think there is a pretty big spread between those different options. If Leicester’s owners sold, maybe they get really good new owners. Maybe they get terrible ones.

 

[SpurMeUp]

No I get it, but that’s what I’m saying, in the event that they are sold, is it actually going to be a Leeds situation? I think these might be cautionary tales that competent owners use to keep the fan base behind them.

I agree there are horrible owners out there. There are also average owners. There are also great owners. And I think there is a pretty big spread between those different options. If Leicester’s owners sold, maybe they get really good new owners. Maybe they get terrible ones.

I think the point is, would you prefer sustainable growth and success, or to roll the dice and maybe put Spurs in an unsustainable position? Personally, I'd much prefer a sustainable model baring fruit rather than someone buy Spurs as a plaything. Ethically it is better, from a business perspective it is better, and for the longevity of the club it is better.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

I think the point is, would you prefer sustainable growth and success, or to roll the dice and maybe put Spurs in an unsustainable position? Personally, I'd much prefer a sustainable model baring fruit rather than someone buy Spurs as a plaything. Ethically it is better, from a business perspective it is better, and for the longevity of the club it is better.

Honestly I’d rather roll the dice and risk having a few years bottom half.

I wouldn’t want to roll the dice if it lead to relegation. But a degree of risk, I’m happy with at this point. With owners that could afford a few goes.

I think people are assuming under ENIC we eventually arrive at this point where we use all this money the club generates to genuinely challenge City, and we’ve done it all the right way. I’m not sure that point ever arrives under them.

 

[Lilbaz]

No I get it, but that’s what I’m saying, in the event that they are sold, is it actually going to be a Leeds situation? I think these might be cautionary tales that competent owners use to keep the fan base behind them.

I agree there are horrible owners out there. There are also average owners. There are also great owners. And I think there is a pretty big spread between those different options. If Leicester’s owners sold, maybe they get really good new owners. Maybe they get terrible ones.

We will see a lot of clubs do a leeds in the next year or so. Bordeaux has gone into administration. Lille was seized by the banks and sold (as liverpool were under hicks and gillet). Most the clubs in france are facing similar. Italy has just brought in new rules for clubs to make sure that they don't go into administration before the start of next season. You wont find new buyers for them all.

 

[SpurMeUp]

Honestly I’d rather roll the dice and risk having a few years bottom half.

I wouldn’t want to roll the dice if it lead to relegation. But a degree of risk, I’m happy with at this point. With owners that could afford a few goes.

I think people are assuming under ENIC we eventually arrive at this point where we use all this money the club generates to genuinely challenge City, and we’ve done it all the right way. I’m not sure that point ever arrives under them.

Presumably, you wouldn't apply the same risk to your own savings or house?

 

[metalgear]

The transfer committee isn't anonymous. It will be hitchens, the scouts, the manager, levy and whoevers in charge of finances. These are multi million £ deals. We have to know how much we can afford on a deal, if the player is worth that, if he fits in with the managers plans. All the main clubs will have a committee. The days of the manager doing deals on his own are long gone.

I don’t really disagree with you. Comes back to my point of not believing the push on and real next step is worth it for them. I think if they really wanted to loosen the purse strings, they would have trusted Poch or Jose, and just went for it.

I’m not convinced the odd league title is worth enough to ENIC in financial terms for them to take the risk.

In retrospect it looks like the ESL was ENIC's gameplan.
I wonder if the sacking of JM was untimely and caught Levy off guard. His immediate appointment to Roma also feels too soon (although its known that they've been looking).

 

[Lilbaz]

In retrospect it looks like the ESL was ENIC's gameplan.
I wonder if the sacking of JM was untimely and caught Levy off guard. His immediate appointment to Roma also feels too soon (although its known that they've been looking).

Think for the next season we're making up the difference between what he earned with us and what he earns at roma. It meant we didn't have to pay out a big compensation package.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Presumably, you wouldn't apply the same risk to your own savings or house?

Nope. But that’s the fun of supporting a football club. I was all aboard the ENIC plan as we were building the stadium. Now I want trophies.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

In retrospect it looks like the ESL was ENIC's gameplan.
I wonder if the sacking of JM was untimely and caught Levy off guard. His immediate appointment to Roma also feels too soon (although its known that they've been looking).

Agreed. I think when talking of what is going to seriously boost the valuation without ENIC having to invest too much more, having an ESL franchise was absolutely a huge move for them.

 

[Lilbaz]

One thing levy has failed on so far is getting naming rights not just for the stadium, but the training ground aswell.

 

[metalgear]

One thing levy has failed on so far is getting naming rights not just for the stadium, but the training ground aswell.

It will come - just a question of matching ENIC's valuation which could have been thrown into a rethink if ESL was part of the plan.

 

[Bishop]

I think the point is, would you prefer sustainable growth and success, or to roll the dice and maybe put Spurs in an unsustainable position? Personally, I'd much prefer a sustainable model baring fruit rather than someone buy Spurs as a plaything. Ethically it is better, from a business perspective it is better, and for the longevity of the club it is better.

A sustainable model is ultimately the dream but it is just that; a dream. We have no success and there is nothing that suggests the model will ever bear fruit because whenever we have gotten close to the precipice and where an extra little bit could have been the required final touches to push us over the line the risk averse strategy has said no.

We aren't an agile and bold operator. It's why so often we do actually identify the talent but we would rather wait for this talent to be prove elsewhere first. Sustainability means "we can't afford" to be bold and take the risk/loss.

While our strategy brings in increasing revenue for the club the rest of the football world aren't sitting still. They are investing, taking risks buying and selling, winning and losing. All the while we sit here and say it's too risky....maybe next year.

There will always be a team with more financial power next year. You have to strike while the iron is hot. There is an opportunity cost to not taking advantage of our position.

But for ENIC it's not really about winning the big prizes. It's about growing an asset and ensuring that asset has thick and sustainable legs. That's not a strategy that is conducive to football success. It makes us a model of sense in the whirlpool of football finances.

To be clear my complaint has never really been that ENIC are unwilling to throw their own money around (which is obvious). Like I said sustainability is an admirable method of working. To make such a model work though we have to absolutely optimise our use of the window. We need to be lithe and agile operators, buying well and more importantly selling well. The sustainability we crave doesn't allow us any leeway in either side of the market. We can't buy because of the risk and we can't sell because we don't want the on the books loss. It means selling Eriksen in 2018 when we knew he had just 2 years left on his contract and his reputation was at its zenith. It means cutting our losses on Sissoko in 2017 and selling after just one season. Those are the actions of the team's whose model we ape ie. the likes of Dortmund, Leicester, Porto, Lille, Sevilla actually follow.

We aren't a structure built to succeed we are structure built just to be.