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Daniel Levy - Chairman

We need some agreed language to take these conversations forward.

If people are allowed to say that Levy skimmed out on players that the manager wanted (with little proof), then the point that Poch turned down a number of players that would have improved us should also be accepted (with the equal amount of proof).

Only accepting one side of the argument massively controls the narrative being put forward.
 
Bishop said:
A sustainable model is ultimately the dream but it is just that; a dream. We have no success and there is nothing that suggests the model will ever bear fruit because whenever we have gotten close to the precipice and where an extra little bit could have been the required final touches to push us over the line the risk averse strategy has said no.

We aren't an agile and bold operator. It's why so often we do actually identify the talent but we would rather wait for this talent to be prove elsewhere first. Sustainability means "we can't afford" to be bold and take the risk/loss.

While our strategy brings in increasing revenue for the club the rest of the football world aren't sitting still. They are investing, taking risks buying and selling, winning and losing. All the while we sit here and say it's too risky....maybe next year.

There will always be a team with more financial power next year. You have to strike while the iron is hot. There is an opportunity cost to not taking advantage of our position.

But for ENIC it's not really about winning the big prizes. It's about growing an asset and ensuring that asset has thick and sustainable legs. That's not a strategy that is conducive to football success. It makes us a model of sense in the whirlpool of football finances.

To be clear my complaint has never really been that ENIC are unwilling to throw their own money around (which is obvious). Like I said sustainability is an admirable method of working. To make such a model work though we have to absolutely optimise our use of the window. We need to be lithe and agile operators, buying well and more importantly selling well. The sustainability we crave doesn't allow us any leeway in either side of the market. We can't buy because of the risk and we can't sell because we don't want the on the books loss. It means selling Eriksen in 2018 when we knew he had just 2 years left on his contract and his reputation was at its zenith. It means cutting our losses on Sissoko in 2017 and selling after just one season. Those are the actions of the team's whose model we ape ie. the likes of Dortmund, Leicester, Porto, Lille, Sevilla actually follow.

We aren't a structure built to succeed we are structure built just to be.
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Very good post.

I roll my eyes at both sides, mega spending is not gonna be a magic bullet, look at PSG so far in their hunt for the Champions League. It is a wreckless unsustainable model I cannot say I'd like us to follow.

At the same time Levy is not the best in the World, 1 League Cup in 20 years says so, in terms of trophies we are miles behind the our top 6 rivals whilst bettered by Leicester, Portsmouth and Wigan. We can only match Middlesbrough, Swansea and Birmingham City, teams all since relegated, when it comes to trophy count under Levy.

For me, Levy is holding us back, yes, without a shadow of a doubt better than Sugar and helped us grow massively, just look at where were in 2008 let alone 2001, but transfer involvement and Scrooge like penny pinching has dragged us away from trophies to the prmise land of balanced books.

I remember backing Levy on here many a time when people would make your argument but after watching the documentary, getting fed up with close but no cigar on and off the pitch, I simply cannot do so anymore. Even in the late 00s some on here were saying the exact same things you have said in your post and sadly they were right.
 
Lilbaz said:
As i said it depends which way you look at it.

I'm not against new owners and i want to win more trophies. But i don't hate levy. He's done the job he was given. He doesn't care about the league cups or fa cups because that's not where the money is. The fa cup is what £2-3m for winning it? Sponsors aren't fussed. It's all about the prem and europe. Disappointing yes. But i've got to see us in the san siro, the bernabeu and the camp nou and watched on telly us in the final of a champions league. It has been better than most teams have had.
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Another good post.

It's actually no surprise when you consider the size of our fanbase, which for me we have always been able to fall back on, in a lesser way than Liverpool and Manchester United have. Would we have been in that position if say we had the same fanbase as Southampton? They have followed the ENIC and got nowhere in their own persuit of Champions League football, same way we have got nowhere in our hunt for trophies since we sat at the big table (from 2009/10 onwards).

Also, Leicester are on course for both the top 4 (as you rightly say, more money) and an FA Cup (a trophy we crave and haven't won nor reached the final of in 30 years) in the same season, something I feel we should have done at least once in the Levy era.

But you are right in one sense that we are dictated by the times and have had many great memories during them, which makes it even more sad that we sit here today empty handed.
 
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spurs' magna carter said:
Another good post.

Whilst true it's actually no surprise when you consider the size of our fanbase, which for me we have always been able to fall back on, in a lesser way than Liverpool and Manchester United have. Would we have been in that position if say we had the same fanbase as Southampton?

Also, Leicester are on course for both the top 4 (as you rightly say, more money) and an FA Cup in the same season, something I feel we should have done at least once in the Levy era.

But you are right in one sense that we are dictated by the times and have had many great memories during them, which makes it even more sad we sit here empty handed.
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When we had a team capable of doing that.... we threw the little cups to focus on the big ones
 
Bedfordspurs said:
When we had a team capable of doing that.... we threw the little cups to focus on the big ones
Click to expand...

You should never throw away a trophy, no matter how big or small they are, win whatever you can get your hands on.

Honestly, no matter how much that is in keeping with the times, Bill Nicholson would be turning in his grave at such comments. It's also snobbery that's backed by nothing.
 
spurs' magna carter said:
You should never throw away a trophy, no matter how big or small they are, win whatever you can get your hands on.

Honestly, no matter how much that is in keeping with the times, Bill Nicholson would be turning in his grave at such comments. It's also snobbery that's backed by nothing.
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Since our last trophy win in 2008 we have been in 9 semi finals (reaching the final 3 times) not bad going for a club throwing the cups.

Obviously counts for nothing without the win(s) but its a bit of a false narrative that we don't take cups seriously
 
spurs' magna carter said:
You should never throw away a trophy, no matter how big or small they are, win whatever you can get your hands on.

Honestly, no matter how much that is in keeping with the times, Bill Nicholson would be turning in his grave at such comments. It's also snobbery that's backed by nothing.
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I agree
We’re not big enough to throw away a chance to win a cup
 
Having seen some footage of the protest
And after footage of the old boys in the boozer with their flat caps on ...
It’s fair to say it was the usual shambles
Who actually organised it?
 
Bishop said:
A sustainable model is ultimately the dream but it is just that; a dream. We have no success and there is nothing that suggests the model will ever bear fruit because whenever we have gotten close to the precipice and where an extra little bit could have been the required final touches to push us over the line the risk averse strategy has said no.

We aren't an agile and bold operator. It's why so often we do actually identify the talent but we would rather wait for this talent to be prove elsewhere first. Sustainability means "we can't afford" to be bold and take the risk/loss.

While our strategy brings in increasing revenue for the club the rest of the football world aren't sitting still. They are investing, taking risks buying and selling, winning and losing. All the while we sit here and say it's too risky....maybe next year.

There will always be a team with more financial power next year. You have to strike while the iron is hot. There is an opportunity cost to not taking advantage of our position.

But for ENIC it's not really about winning the big prizes. It's about growing an asset and ensuring that asset has thick and sustainable legs. That's not a strategy that is conducive to football success. It makes us a model of sense in the whirlpool of football finances.

To be clear my complaint has never really been that ENIC are unwilling to throw their own money around (which is obvious). Like I said sustainability is an admirable method of working. To make such a model work though we have to absolutely optimise our use of the window. We need to be lithe and agile operators, buying well and more importantly selling well. The sustainability we crave doesn't allow us any leeway in either side of the market. We can't buy because of the risk and we can't sell because we don't want the on the books loss. It means selling Eriksen in 2018 when we knew he had just 2 years left on his contract and his reputation was at its zenith. It means cutting our losses on Sissoko in 2017 and selling after just one season. Those are the actions of the team's whose model we ape ie. the likes of Dortmund, Leicester, Porto, Lille, Sevilla actually follow.

We aren't a structure built to succeed we are structure built just to be.
Click to expand...

“We have no success” you can see why some think our fans are a little entitled. Challenging for the title being in the CL final, having a stadiums and training ground that is the envy of most...nothing successful there? Relative to where we were 20 years you can honestly say we’ve had no successes? Ok then.

You outline why we’re not Emirates Marketing Project but you don’t put forward any positive vision. What is it that you want to see?




Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app
 
SpurMeUp said:
“We have no success” you can see why some think our fans are a little entitled. Challenging for the title being in the CL final, having a stadiums and training ground that is the envy of most...nothing successful there? Relative to where we were 20 years you can honestly say we’ve had no successes? Ok then.

You outline why we’re not Emirates Marketing Project but you don’t put forward any positive vision. What is it that you want to see?




Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app
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It's been period of progress on the field but not a period of success. Success is actually achieving something in the end and we haven't done that. So nope, no success.

Progression on the pitch is actually enough for me I can be quite satisfied with progress. We aren't progressing anymore. We are regressing.

Regarding they lack of positivity I guess I find it difficult to be overtly positive under Levy's leadership. I see a chairman who is unsure and afraid to make the bold steps. To make the though decisions, that's what I want to see. I think my post was quite clear in what I expect to see from a team of our relatively tight finances. A lithe and agile operator of the transfer market to maximise our returns. We are far from that.
 
Bishop said:
It's been period of progress on the field but not a period of success. Success is actually achieving something in the end and we haven't done that. So nope, no success.

Progression on the pitch is actually enough for me I can be quite satisfied with progress. We aren't progressing anymore. We are regressing.

Regarding they lack of positivity I guess I find it difficult to be overtly positive under Levy's leadership. I see a chairman who is unsure and afraid to make the bold steps. To make the though decisions, that's what I want to see. I think my post was quite clear in what I expect to see from a team of our relatively tight finances. A lithe and agile operator of the transfer market to maximise our returns. We are far from that.
Click to expand...

How are you defining "bold step" though, based solely on outcome?

Was Ndombele not a bold step, hiring Jose, keeping Eriksen for that little bit longer, bringing Bale back?
 
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Bishop said:
It's been period of progress on the field but not a period of success. Success is actually achieving something in the end and we haven't done that. So nope, no success.

Progression on the pitch is actually enough for me I can be quite satisfied with progress. We aren't progressing anymore. We are regressing.

Regarding they lack of positivity I guess I find it difficult to be overtly positive under Levy's leadership. I see a chairman who is unsure and afraid to make the bold steps. To make the though decisions, that's what I want to see. I think my post was quite clear in what I expect to see from a team of our relatively tight finances. A lithe and agile operator of the transfer market to maximise our returns. We are far from that.
Click to expand...
Success is relative
For Burnley it’s staying in the prem
For Everton, Leicester West Ham it’s the European trip
For us and arsenal it’s top 4 and CL (and that’s Leicester goal now)
For teams that have won the league recently.... that’s their target
It profession on where your at that becomes the target and therefore progress and success
Our issue is that progress changed expectation
I remember the night we qualified for CL for the first time.... was amazing
Now I’m actually quite frustrated and sometimes angry if we don’t get it.
But this year when we were too and I thought we had a sniff of the title .... I was feeling sick watching every game. It was awful because my sudden change in expectation caused nerves that I had never had
Right now for us... progress is getting back into top 4. That was the target this season and was realistic too if we didn’t make so many basic errors. The club reacted to the issues and binned of Jose and we reset now
We go again next season with a fresh start like most sides
I remember going to young boys in the CL qualifier... fudging expensive and we lost
I wasn’t thinking of what happened to Everton vs Villereal...
Hey we won the next game and had a blinding run that season that I loved. I even thought we could win it at one point (when we beat inter at WHL)
But I also remember the europa game away at Bayer and also away at Sporting with fondness because again it was progress at the time
 
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Out of curiosity how much do we think it would cost to buy the club? Have heard £1.6bn bandied about (maybe a bit less now). Then another £800m to clear the debt? So £2.4bn? Then how much would we need to spend to get the team in a title winning position? £500m?

Lot of money. With the saudi's out of the picture, can't see any sugar daddies coming in to buy us. Maybe an investment firm? Or we could go public again like utd. There are far cheaper alternatives out there.
 
Lilbaz said:
As i said it depends which way you look at it.

I'm not against new owners and i want to win more trophies. But i don't hate levy. He's done the job he was given. He doesn't care about the league cups or fa cups because that's not where the money is. The fa cup is what £2-3m for winning it? Sponsors aren't fussed. It's all about the prem and europe. Disappointing yes. But i've got to see us in the san siro, the bernabeu and the camp nou and watched on telly us in the final of a champions league. It has been better than most teams have had.
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I don’t hate Levy either. I think he is a reasonable chairman, acting for a bottom quartile PL team owner. I do have issues that he is the only ‘top paid’ staff member we have though.
 
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