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Carlyle takeover, was Cain Hoy takeover

Re: Back Page tomorrow Mirror - Lewis to sell 1 Billion Tottenham

The words 'categorically not for sale' and 'neither would we entertain an offer' springs to mind. ;)
That would be ludicrous, ENIC are an investment company. If Cain Hoy offer over the market price ENIC will probably sell.

Given that Cain Hoy are also an investment company, I doubt that they would be any more likely to run the club to your liking than ENIC have and there is a very real risk that they could run it worse.
 
Re: Back Page tomorrow Mirror - Lewis to sell 1 Billion Tottenham

That would be ludicrous, ENIC are an investment company. If Cain Hoy offer over the market price ENIC will probably sell.

Given that Cain Hoy are also an investment company, I doubt that they would be any more likely to run the club to your liking than ENIC have and there is a very real risk that they could run it worse.

Not only that, but ENIC actually have/had other successful investments prior to taking over Spurs and had a proven track record of improving the position of other clubs they'd taken over such as AEK Athens, Sparta Prague.

Cain Hoy have existed for a few weeks and appear to have been created specifically as a vehicle for investing in Spurs, if that's what happens...
 
Not only that, but ENIC actually have/had other successful investments prior to taking over Spurs and had a proven track record of improving the position of other clubs they'd taken over such as AEK Athens, Sparta Prague.

Cain Hoy have existed for a few weeks and appear to have been created specifically as a vehicle for investing in Spurs, if that's what happens...

Absolutely. We can be 100% certain that they would not match Chelsea, Emirates Marketing Project or Man United's spending ever and 99% certain that they would not match Liverpool or Arsenal's until the stadium is complete and even then they might not be able to
 
Re: Back Page tomorrow Mirror - Lewis to sell 1 Billion Tottenham

That would be ludicrous, ENIC are an investment company. If Cain Hoy offer over the market price ENIC will probably sell.

Given that Cain Hoy are also an investment company, I doubt that they would be any more likely to run the club to your liking than ENIC have and there is a very real risk that they could run it worse.

To my liking.. What would that be then, out of interest?
 
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Re: Cain Hoy takeover

If it's not someone with massive personal wealth we can be pretty sure what their intentions are. The question is how they intend to do it, use the club to pay off their debt or spend 10-20 years trying to increase its value before cashing in.
 
Re: Cain Hoy takeover

As if we didn't have enough examples of "glazernomics" from football, there are many examples of equity firms buying businesses only to load them with debt. Phones4u is a recent case in point. When an equity firm sees a money making opportunity they will be ruthless about exploiting the business they buy. It is what motivates them. So I would not welcome any firm buying Spurs unless I was very very sure that they had the Club's interest at heart.

It's absolutely right that you are exercising caution with regard to this potential takeover. I've seen lots of Spurs fans getting overexcited and making all sorts of claims about Cain Hoy that they can't possibly substantiate - ranging from them lavishing huge amounts of money on Spurs and making us a permanent member of the top four to them merely being a "better ENIC". As you say, at this stage, they could just as easily take money out of the club or they could just as easily be a "worse ENIC".

We need to see the colour of Cain Hoy's money - regardless that they have some thoroughbred finance behind them. We need to be assured that ENIC will only sell if they are quite certain that Cain Hoy will not burden us with debt in the form of a leveraged buyout and, ideally, we need to be assured that they are bringing something to the table other than merely enough money to persuade Lewis, and maybe Levy, to sell - i.e. are they also prepared to provide at least some of the funding for the stadium construction?

However, that all said, there are a couple of reasons to be cautiously hopeful. First and foremost, one of the three principals at Cain Hoy has form for investing in sports teams. Todd Boehly is the man behind Guggenheim's ownership of the LA Dodgers and the big investment they have made in the team since taking it on. That's no guarantee that he'd do the same at Spurs, of course, but it makes such an outcome somewhat more possible. Secondly, another of Cain Hoy's principals is a long time Spurs season ticket holder. You'd hope that, at the very least, he would want no part in a leveraged buyout that would see the club haemorrhaging money to pay off Cain Hoy's debt, as per the Glazers at Man Utd.
 
Re: Cain Hoy takeover

If it's not someone with massive personal wealth we can be pretty sure what their intentions are. The question is how they intend to do it, use the club to pay off their debt or spend 10-20 years trying to increase its value before cashing in.

What is its an investment group with massive wealth.
They controls assets of over 200 Billion. They are not gonna need a loan to buy the club.
 
Re: Cain Hoy takeover

It's absolutely right that you are exercising caution with regard to this potential takeover. I've seen lots of Spurs fans getting overexcited and making all sorts of claims about Cain Hoy that they can't possibly substantiate - ranging from them lavishing huge amounts of money on Spurs and making us a permanent member of the top four to them merely being a "better ENIC". As you say, at this stage, they could just as easily take money out of the club or they could just as easily be a "worse ENIC".

We need to see the colour of Cain Hoy's money - regardless that they have some thoroughbred finance behind them. We need to be assured that ENIC will only sell if they are quite certain that Cain Hoy will not burden us with debt in the form of a leveraged buyout and, ideally, we need to be assured that they are bringing something to the table other than merely enough money to persuade Lewis, and maybe Levy, to sell - i.e. are they also prepared to provide at least some of the funding for the stadium construction?

However, that all said, there are a couple of reasons to be cautiously hopeful. First and foremost, one of the three principals at Cain Hoy has form for investing in sports teams. Todd Boehly is the man behind Guggenheim's ownership of the LA Dodgers and the big investment they have made in the team since taking it on. That's no guarantee that he'd do the same at Spurs, of course, but it makes such an outcome somewhat more possible. Secondly, another of Cain Hoy's principals is a long time Spurs season ticket holder. You'd hope that, at the very least, he would want no part in a leveraged buyout that would see the club haemorrhaging money to pay off Cain Hoy's debt, as per the Glazers at Man Utd.

The club don't make enough profit for a leveraged buyout to be on the table surely.
 
What is its an investment group with massive wealth.
They controls assets of over 200 Billion. They are not gonna need a loan to buy the club.

The Glazers are hardly short of a bob or two, neither were Gillet and Hicks.

What is very unlikely is that Cains Hoy they would lavish funds on the first team for the love of football. If they buy the club it will be as an investment, the same as ENIC.
 
Re: Cain Hoy takeover

What is its an investment group with massive wealth.
They controls assets of over 200 Billion. They are not gonna need a loan to buy the club.

Then they most likely won't need to drain the club of money. Don't see them putting any money in either, without them thinking they'll get at least double or triple back in a not too distant future.
 
Re: Back Page tomorrow Mirror - Lewis to sell 1 Billion Tottenham

You tell me. You have been very critical of ENIC for a while now.

My position is not far from the way its being run now.. but with a little bit of our moto splashed in it. I also do not like us being owned by someone that clearly is in it for one reason and shows up once in a blue moon, when it feels like he can fit in a game amongst other engagements in his whirlwind visits.

I couldn't give a toss if Lewis went tomorrow. And I would certainly love it if he sold his shares in ENIC.. or sold 51% of it too Tottenham fans to finance the stadium. Almost like floating the club again.

Levy I don't mind. I'd almost admire the guy if I didn't believe he was a Lewis puppet. IMO Lewis is holding him back as well as the club.

I don't want millions spent on players, I'd prefer they spent it on the infrastructure.. there own money, with the cost of dong so coming back when they sell the club for that Billion that seems to be mentioned recently.

I'm old school in the fact I see owners as nothing more than custodians of football clubs and money should not be made of the back of them. If they try it then they should be ousted by the fans.

If the club sold the shares to the fans then we never again have to adhere to a dictatorship, but decisions are made by everyone.

The things I hate Levy for is his medalling in the transfer targets and hiding behind others when the blame for certain things lay at his door.. I think bringing in stubhub is the worst decision he has ever made and is a big fcuk you to every single Tottenham fan. He needs to be more transparent to all of us and stop treating us as customers instead of fans.

The Bale money I would have used on buying one replacement with the rest on the stadium.
 
Re: Back Page tomorrow Mirror - Lewis to sell 1 Billion Tottenham

I'd have thought no at this stage, simply because Enic are unlikely to get as good a price now, with the CPO hiatus, the lack of scheme funding and the general uncertainty, as they would with all these uncertainties resolved. At that stage it would be a question of whether Enic think that the price they could achieve was more than they think they can achieve by continuing to own the asset and working it. The asset being the club of course. From what I've read there is currently a big difference between what Cain Hoy would currently offer and what Enic think it's worth. I'd imagine this gap would increase rather than decrease once the stadium is built.
It seems a very strange time to me for them to make this offer in any event, assuming they are serious and not merely getting their name known.

Actually, I can see why now might be a good time to make an offer.

It might also be a good time to sell.

If Cain Hoy values Spurs highly enough and still sees huge potential for growth, it's possible that they could make an offer that meets ENIC's valuation of the club with the stadium in place (bearing in mind that ENIC's valuation would have to take into account that the club would be carrying £200-300m of debt). Again, using Todd Boehly's involvement in the bid for the LA Dodgers as a possible sign of things to come, Guggenheim paid over the odds because they clearly saw potential for future growth. So it's not inconceivable.

For ENIC's part, selling the club before the stadium is completed allows them to sell the promise that Spurs could crack the top four once everything is in place. There is a danger that, if they leave the sale until after the stadium has been in use for a number of years and if the club is still struggling to crack the top four, that promise will no longer exist.

Incidentally, I don't know what you've read but I've seen no indication at all as to what Cain Hoy might be prepared to pay - they are still only considering the possibility of an offer - so I don't think we can say yet that there is a "big difference" between their valuation's and ENIC's.
 
Re: Cain Hoy takeover

Have you got a link to that?

http://www.out-law.com/en/articles/...iction-over-football-copyrights-infringement/

what i was reading earlier.

However in it appears this year, in 2014, the European Commission has been investigating whether EU legislation is required to clarify the position regarding copyright rules and their impact on EU citizens accessing digital media across EU state boundaries:

http://www.whitecase.com/articles/022014/eu-copyright-rules-changes-on-horizon/#.VBdCsfldVJs
 
Re: Cain Hoy takeover

If it's not someone with massive personal wealth we can be pretty sure what their intentions are. The question is how they intend to do it, use the club to pay off their debt or spend 10-20 years trying to increase its value before cashing in.

The usual answer is asset stripping.
 
Re: Cain Hoy takeover

It's absolutely right that you are exercising caution with regard to this potential takeover. I've seen lots of Spurs fans getting overexcited and making all sorts of claims about Cain Hoy that they can't possibly substantiate - ranging from them lavishing huge amounts of money on Spurs and making us a permanent member of the top four to them merely being a "better ENIC". As you say, at this stage, they could just as easily take money out of the club or they could just as easily be a "worse ENIC".

We need to see the colour of Cain Hoy's money - regardless that they have some thoroughbred finance behind them. We need to be assured that ENIC will only sell if they are quite certain that Cain Hoy will not burden us with debt in the form of a leveraged buyout and, ideally, we need to be assured that they are bringing something to the table other than merely enough money to persuade Lewis, and maybe Levy, to sell - i.e. are they also prepared to provide at least some of the funding for the stadium construction?

However, that all said, there are a couple of reasons to be cautiously hopeful. First and foremost, one of the three principals at Cain Hoy has form for investing in sports teams. Todd Boehly is the man behind Guggenheim's ownership of the LA Dodgers and the big investment they have made in the team since taking it on. That's no guarantee that he'd do the same at Spurs, of course, but it makes such an outcome somewhat more possible. Secondly, another of Cain Hoy's principals is a long time Spurs season ticket holder. You'd hope that, at the very least, he would want no part in a leveraged buyout that would see the club haemorrhaging money to pay off Cain Hoy's debt, as per the Glazers at Man Utd.

Agreed.

For me at least Levy is one of the best chairmen around, we have no idea if he would be kept on or not in case of a switch of owners.

Lewis is I suppose an average owner all in all. Rarely invests in the club, but also rarely takes money out of the club. Seems to let Levy do his thing and for now at least his interests and ours (push on to top 4, build a new stadium) are well aligned.

I see a lot more ways that we could be worse off after a change of owners than ways we could be better off. Considering regression to the mean I would rather keep Lewis and Levy.
 
Re: Cain Hoy takeover

The Glazers are hardly short of a bob or two, neither were Gillet and Hicks.

What is very unlikely is that Cains Hoy they would lavish funds on the first team for the love of football. If they buy the club it will be as an investment, the same as ENIC.

Actually, in terms of buying Man Utd, the Glazers were short of a bob or two. No way they could have done the deal unless they took on huge borrowing or unless they sold their other prime asset, the Tampa Bay Buccaneers - and the latter was never going to happen given that ownership of an NFL franchise is a license to print money.

As to Cain, I agree that they'd be unlikely to invest hugely in the team from their own funds (but there is wriggle room even for that under FFP). However, if they are serious about Spurs and if they are sufficiently well funded, it could make great sense for them to finance the stadium construction. That would be huge for us.
 
Re: Cain Hoy takeover

If it's not someone with massive personal wealth we can be pretty sure what their intentions are. The question is how they intend to do it, use the club to pay off their debt or spend 10-20 years trying to increase its value before cashing in.

Or float the club again and make a profit that way once the stadium is done.
 
Re: Back Page tomorrow Mirror - Lewis to sell 1 Billion Tottenham

My position is not far from the way its being run now.. but with a little bit of our moto splashed in it. I also do not like us being owned by someone that clearly is in it for one reason and shows up once in a blue moon, when it feels like he can fit in a game amongst other engagements in his whirlwind visits.

I couldn't give a toss if Lewis went tomorrow. And I would certainly love it if he sold his shares in ENIC.. or sold 51% of it too Tottenham fans to finance the stadium. Almost like floating the club again.

Levy I don't mind. I'd almost admire the guy if I didn't believe he was a Lewis puppet. IMO Lewis is holding him back as well as the club.

I don't want millions spent on players, I'd prefer they spent it on the infrastructure.. there own money, with the cost of dong so coming back when they sell the club for that Billion that seems to be mentioned recently.

I'm old school in the fact I see owners as nothing more than custodians of football clubs and money should not be made of the back of them. If they try it then they should be ousted by the fans.

If the club sold the shares to the fans then we never again have to adhere to a dictatorship, but decisions are made by everyone.

The things I hate Levy for is his medalling in the transfer targets and hiding behind others when the blame for certain things lay at his door.. I think bringing in stubhub is the worst decision he has ever made and is a big fcuk you to every single Tottenham fan. He needs to be more transparent to all of us and stop treating us as customers instead of fans.

The Bale money I would have used on buying one replacement with the rest on the stadium.

The problem with spending the Bale money on one replacement, much like Liverpool had with spending the Suarez money on one replacement (but to a lesser extent as they have a greater turnover than we have), is that you can spend £80m in transfer/agent fees all you like. Doesn't mean that you are going to be able to underwrite the wage demands of any player that is worth spending that amount of money on.

Just for example, even if we had the funds from Bale this summer we wouldn't have been able to buy Falcao, Sanchez or Di Maria, despite them all being available.

That's what annoys me when people bang on about our 'net spend' for the last few summers. Yes, our net-spend has declined, starting with the Redknapp era, but our spending on wages and bonuses particularly after the CL season has increased hugely. Signing Adebayor on a permanent deal was probably the biggest deal this club has ever done. But people don't see it that way as the 'transfer fee' was only £5m.
 
Re: Cain Hoy takeover

http://www.out-law.com/en/articles/...iction-over-football-copyrights-infringement/

what i was reading earlier.

However in it appears this year, in 2014, the European Commission has been investigating whether EU legislation is required to clarify the position regarding copyright rules and their impact on EU citizens accessing digital media across EU state boundaries:

http://www.whitecase.com/articles/022014/eu-copyright-rules-changes-on-horizon/#.VBdCsfldVJs
Cheers. I won't have a chance to read this for a day or so but really appreciate the links and might come back.
 
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