AVB & Spurs Tactics and Formations discussion thread

[braineclipse]

Of course the last 2 lines are linked to the first 2, would be a bit departed if I made the first 2 paragraphs and then said "i have a great feeling about the club at the moment".

But ironic that 2 of the worst culprits for bias under Harry have picked up on my comments. The difference is, we lose the first game and didnt look very good at all - so what other first impression can I get? I've stated very clearly it is a first impression and as always I'll say it exactly how it is in the future - if we win out next 10 games I'll be impressed with AVB. Compare that with your assessment of Harry, and you pretty much completely went against any evidence we had and put your hand over your ears while screaming "i hate harry im not listening to you".

Do you think we looked better or worse than Saudi Sportswashing Machine, performance wise?

 

[BrainOfLevy]

I agree.

I thought our pressing was really taking shape, I always thought Defoe looked a bit headless-chicken like with his pressing, but looked a lot better now and it's just the first game of the season.

The lack of purpose in our slow buildup play was the biggest worry, but hopefully by the time the window slams shut we'll have a deep playmaker in place and available so a Sandro and Livermore/Parker central midfield duo will only happen rarely.

I thought Bale looked improved, I thought he made way more purposeful runs around their box than he did last season. Lennon looked about as fresh as he's ever done at the start of a season.

Still several things that need sorting out of course, but good early signs for me.

I think once we have a striker that gets more involved in build up play the build up issue will be a bit better - even if we do have to play Livermore alongside Sandro who I think is really under-rated.

With Defoe, there's only really one pass to make to him and that's in behind. So all the build up play ends up being for nothing when that's all we can do. Get it into the feet of Ade and so many more combinations can come from that.

 

[elltrev]

When did Bale hurt their right back yesterday?

When he got the ball isolated against Simpson. A lot of whinging in the OMT if I remember correctly that Bale wasn't performing actually. And he stayed on the left for most of the game.

We have to get him the ball in those situations, he's not Messi or Ronaldo, we can't expect him to pick the ball up facing the wrong way at the half way line, skip past a couple of players and only then be in a position to hurt their full back. When our overall game plan doesn't work, when our passing through the middle doesn't work he's primarily effective on the left when we attack on the break after just winning the ball. He can inflict similar pain on the right in those situations and possibly be more of a threat in and around the box cutting onto his left foot from the right.

A lot of people complaining every time Bale pops up on the right while completely ignoring the preceding 25+ minutes of him being on the left without making anything happen.

Personally I'm in the Bale-stay-on-the-left-camp.

I don't think he has a particularly great change of direction or drop of the shoulder, which means that he's not that effective at coming onto his left foot from the right wing. And if he is shown the line or chooses it himself, his one-footedness makes him virtually optionless when he gets to the byline.

At least on the left if he is shown inside onto his weaker foot he isn't as isolated, and can play a simple pass to a teammate.

Most of all though, I can't stand him coming in to deep central positions. Generally I love movement and players drifitng and swapping positions, but not to the point that it stops them playing to their strengths.

 

[Golfball]

Why would you be worried with AVB? What exactly did he do wrong yesterday? They were the 5th best side in the league last season, and yesterday were only there for the taking because we made them look so poor. If we play like that over the season, we will be absolutely fine and well up where we should be. And this was without a key striker, a key Modric replacement and a goalkeeper we will probably bring in.

Just read the 'If AVB is a decent manager...' line again though, and I have to say that's pretty ridiculous. If he's a decent manager, he should easily be able to get goals and control games at the team that finished 5th last season? WTF? Well, we did actually play really well and restricted them to pretty much their only chances of the game which they scored from. But it's just such a ridiculous way to judge a manager.

Are you not capable of reading ? There is so much wrong with your post.

First of all, do you understand the term "first impression" ?

Secondly, I quoted a post in my post, therefore it seems logical that you should read his post before you read mine so that you understand the context. The post I quoted stated that the season starts on 1st September when we have a midfielder and striker. I stated that if AVB is a decent manager he should be able to get results with the squad we currently have... it doesnt necessarily have to be related to yesterdays game, its future context over a period of time. So to state clearly, the post I quoted said we need signings, Im just saying we have some great players and a good manager will pick up points with that squad.

 

[Roy1983]

Bale certainly didn't play left or 'Most of the match yesterday'.

 

[milo]

If we want Bale to develop as a player then he needs to mix it up more and develop other areas of his game. He cannot do that nailed to the left hand touchline.

 

[Spursalot]

On the other hand, if we want bale to develop as a player he needs to play CL football. We are unlikely to get that if he doesn't stick to the left more.

 

[Roy1983]

If we want Bale to develop as a player then he needs to mix it up more and develop other areas of his game. He cannot do that nailed to the left hand touchline.

Stick to your strengths. All he needs to improve on, IMO, is to use his right foot.

 

[Golfball]

Do you think we looked better or worse than Saudi Sportswashing Machine, performance wise?

It doesnt matter. This discussion is about Spurs performance. Theres a difference between putting in a good performance and being better than your opponents.

But i'll answer your question, thought we started quite well and controlled it with neither team looking overly threatening. It then started to level out and finally swung in their favour - not that they were anything special at all, but we finished the game looking unmotivated and out of ideas. Not really the best thing to see on the opening day of the season.

And some of the comments in here, unbelievable when you consider what the same people would say about displays under Harry. Yesterday was not a great pressing display, this is something that was excellent under Harry and you wont find an opposition manager say differently. However it would tail off towards the end of the seasons when we were tired. But yesterday was day 1, I thought we faded badly and it led to my first impression - and i'll state again, first impression. If we win the next 5 with good displays, ill be the first on here defending the manager should someone make a stupid post.

I think its fairly obvious the Harry haters dont want to say anything bad about yesterday because they dont want to make it look like we/they were wrong. Its blatantly obvious, and equally pathetic.

 

[metalgear]

we scored away
hit the woodwork twice +
didn't have mods or ade and no vdv in first half +
----------------------------------------------------
we did well against Saudi Sportswashing Machine at home
========================================

if anything AVB did well, but Levy did not on the pitch. (off the pitch he is still doing a massive job on the new stadium. )

 

[Golfball]

What were the stats from yesterday? Something like 15 shots compared to their 7? Hitting the woodwork twice. Losing to a fantastic finish and a penalty. Without 3 key positions being addressed. You are honestly worried about the season considering all of that? If you are, I'd suggest you worry too much.

If we had played like Saudi Sportswashing Machine did yesterday and won, I'd have been more worried to be honest. But I think our performance showed we were really on the right track, and once we get those extra bits of quality, we will be getting the results we deserve more often than not.

Saudi Sportswashing Machine werent any worse than us yesterday. They finished the game under no threat. They took the lead twice so it was up to us to take the game to them. We didnt, our performance was poor and anything I've read on the game says that - including our own players saying they are disappointed with it.

But I like the fact you are able to put such a positive spin even on a display like yesterdays. Im assuming you must have been very pro Harry as well, because we'd lose games with 25 shots on goal with 3 disallowed goals for us and an offside goal from the opposition - yet the guy would get slated for the result. I tried to read as little as possible of those threads, but im guessing you were around stating all of this and telling everyone to back Harry. In which case I'm sure come the end of the season and AVB has us in 4th position, we'll both be on the same side of the argument when people try and knock AVB (which there will be).

 

[Roy1983]

We looked toothless up front - not helped by the fact we have a chairman who, as much as I respect him, seems so reluctant to bring in a striker we need.

 

[parklane1]

Saudi Sportswashing Machine werent any worse than us yesterday. They finished the game under no threat. They took the lead twice so it was up to us to take the game to them. We didnt, our performance was poor and anything I've read on the game says that - including our own players saying they are disappointed with it.

But I like the fact you are able to put such a positive spin even on a display like yesterdays. Im assuming you must have been very pro Harry as well, because we'd lose games with 25 shots on goal with 3 disallowed goals for us and an offside goal from the opposition - yet the guy would get slated for the result. I tried to read as little as possible of those threads, but im guessing you were around stating all of this and telling everyone to back Harry. In which case I'm sure come the end of the season and AVB has us in 4th position, we'll both be on the same side of the argument when people try and knock AVB (which there will be).

I take it you were not at the game, we were the better team and were unlucky to lose. We stayed overnight in Saudi Sportswashing Machine and ended up having a good drink with several Saudi Sportswashing Machine fans and they all though the best team lost. GHod knows what game you were watching if you thought our performance was poor.

 

[Golfball]

we scored away
hit the woodwork twice +
didn't have mods or ade and no vdv in first half +
----------------------------------------------------
we did well against Saudi Sportswashing Machine at home
========================================

if anything AVB did well, but Levy did not on the pitch. (off the pitch he is still doing a massive job on the new stadium. )

See... all of these people who said we need a winning mentality, and now all of a sudden those posts have disappeared and its "oh but they finished 5th last season and we were away". Actually, according to the post I've quoted I should be happy because we scored. Well sorry, it doesnt work like that. You have a forum full of people who tell me a manager who came 4th twice lacked a winning mentality and should be sacked, then you've just raised expectations, not lowered them.

Therefore we go away to Saudi Sportswashing Machine (come on lets stop referring to the fact they came 5th, they wont this season will they) and I'd expect a point to be the minimum. And that is not my expectation, thats the expectation a lot of people on here have told me we should have. So why suddenly should I be happy with a loss ? and more to the point, why have those people suddenly forgotten about their own thoughts on this subject.

Forget my opinion on yesterday. I've had it drilled into me from many in this thread that they see yesterdays sort of performance and result as unacceptable. (and metalgear this post isnt necessarily directed at you as I cant remember your previous posts, but im just using it as its along the same lines of the example i wanted to use).

 

[jimmyb]

Saudi Sportswashing Machine werent any worse than us yesterday. They finished the game under no threat. They took the lead twice so it was up to us to take the game to them. We didnt, our performance was poor and anything I've read on the game says that - including our own players saying they are disappointed with it.

But I like the fact you are able to put such a positive spin even on a display like yesterdays. Im assuming you must have been very pro Harry as well, because we'd lose games with 25 shots on goal with 3 disallowed goals for us and an offside goal from the opposition - yet the guy would get slated for the result. I tried to read as little as possible of those threads, but im guessing you were around stating all of this and telling everyone to back Harry. In which case I'm sure come the end of the season and AVB has us in 4th position, we'll both be on the same side of the argument when people try and knock AVB (which there will be).

Why are you so angrily bringing Harry into this conversation? BOL was talking about yesterday and AVB's team, wasn't he?

 

[jimmyb]

See... all of these people who said we need a winning mentality, and now all of a sudden those posts have disappeared and its "oh but they finished 5th last season and we were away". Actually, according to the post I've quoted I should be happy because we scored. Well sorry, it doesnt work like that. You have a forum full of people who tell me a manager who came 4th twice lacked a winning mentality and should be sacked, then you've just raised expectations, not lowered them.

Therefore we go away to Saudi Sportswashing Machine (come on lets stop referring to the fact they came 5th, they wont this season will they) and I'd expect a point to be the minimum. And that is not my expectation, thats the expectation a lot of people on here have told me we should have. So why suddenly should I be happy with a loss ? and more to the point, why have those people suddenly forgotten about their own thoughts on this subject.

Forget my opinion on yesterday. I've had it drilled into me from many in this thread that they see yesterdays sort of performance and result as unacceptable. (and metalgear this post isnt necessarily directed at you as I cant remember your previous posts, but im just using it as its along the same lines of the example i wanted to use).

Again - you're angrily and arbitrarily talking about Harry.

That's a pretty thinly veiled agenda you have there.

Harry's gone. Whether you loved him, loathed him, were indifferent to him or saw both the good and bad in him.......he's gone. Do we have to keep this tedious argument going ad nauseam?

 

[Spursalot]

See... all of these people who said we need a winning mentality, and now all of a sudden those posts have disappeared and its "oh but they finished 5th last season and we were away". Actually, according to the post I've quoted I should be happy because we scored. Well sorry, it doesnt work like that. You have a forum full of people who tell me a manager who came 4th twice lacked a winning mentality and should be sacked, then you've just raised expectations, not lowered them.

Therefore we go away to Saudi Sportswashing Machine (come on lets stop referring to the fact they came 5th, they wont this season will they) and I'd expect a point to be the minimum. And that is not my expectation, thats the expectation a lot of people on here have told me we should have. So why suddenly should I be happy with a loss ? and more to the point, why have those people suddenly forgotten about their own thoughts on this subject.

Forget my opinion on yesterday. I've had it drilled into me from many in this thread that they see yesterdays sort of performance and result as unacceptable. (and metalgear this post isnt necessarily directed at you as I cant remember your previous posts, but im just using it as its along the same lines of the example i wanted to use).

Nobody is happy with a loss. However some of us are happy with the performance. You can play well without winning, the season is 38 games long and your reading far far too much into one match.


Edit: You seem irritated that this place seems to have become a little less 'knee-jerk' and a little more 'long term'.. That is hardly a bad move.

 

[Roy1983]

I'm never happy with a performance if we lose purely and simply because somewhere along the line we fudged up!!

 

[Golfball]

Again - you're angrily and arbitrarily talking about Harry.

That's a pretty thinly veiled agenda you have there.

Harry's gone. Whether you loved him, loathed him, were indifferent to him or saw both the good and bad in him.......he's gone. Do we have to keep this tedious argument going ad nauseam?

Shut up. The post is clear. The Harry comments are clear and relevance to the comments Im replying to is clear. It's certainly not angry - im just stating an opinion which I believe is the point of this forum.

Yes he's gone, but there is no reason why I cant mention him in every post if I want to. Im not discussing his sacking. He was the previous manager who was sacked in favour of this one. If I see someone say something about Harry or about his performances, and then see the same person say the opposite for a new manager, its a perfectly rational thought to question why they have done that (not that I dont know the answer).

So instead of telling me who I cant mention, put up an opinion or jog on.

 

[jimmyb]

Shut up. The post is clear. The Harry comments are clear and relevance to the comments Im replying to is clear. It's certainly not angry - im just stating an opinion which I believe is the point of this forum.

Yes he's gone, but there is no reason why I cant mention him in every post if I want to. Im not discussing his sacking. He was the previous manager who was sacked in favour of this one. If I see someone say something about Harry or about his performances, and then see the same person say the opposite for a new manager, its a perfectly rational thought to question why they have done that (not that I dont know the answer).

So instead of telling me who I cant mention, put up an opinion or jog on.

Ah, right......so that's you not being angry. Gotcha.

Of course there's nothing to stop you from mentioning Harry in every post; jutting out your lower lip and complaining that people aren't treating AVB in the same way that they treated Harry; pouncing on every little inconsistency that you detect in the anti Harry or pro AVB camp; grasping hold of every little flaw in AVB's performance and treating it as a stick with which to beat those you accuse of being inconsistent. Certainly, I'm not stopping you.

I just think that it would be better if you didn't do all those things and was hoping that, in a calmer, more considered moment, you might come to the same conclusion.

Because I'd rather concentrate on the here and now and the soon to come rather than forever fighting yesterday's battles.