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AVB & Spurs Tactics and Formations discussion thread

africanspurs said:
Gotta say, golfball has more than a point or two

and if people are going to have a go at how the team was in years prior to this one, how is that NOT about harry, in which case at some point harry could come into the discussion
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Could it not be as simple as people trying to see the positives in a fresh start with a new manager?

Redknapp was with us (save 8 games) 4 whole seasons. He had a lot of time to grow and develop and build the side. If after 4 years people are a less patient I can understand it. Not saying its right, just that its understandable. Progression is expected...

New manager, new system, new players, new season, new start - is it any surprise people are trying to look ahead and up instead of to the negatives?
 
nayimfromthehalfwayline said:
Could it not be as simple as people trying to see the positives in a fresh start with a new manager?

Redknapp was with us (save 8 games) 4 whole seasons. He had a lot of time to grow and develop and build the side. If after 4 years people are a less patient I can understand it. Not saying its right, just that its understandable. Progression is expected...

New manager, new system, new players, new season, new start - is it any surprise people are trying to look ahead and up instead of to the negatives?
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i dont think you're arguing points or principles that anyone disagrees with. Simple thing is that if you rubbish what went on for the four years prior then some people, myself included, will think its the same folk that just reached for infinity to find something to argue against harry instead of just saying they wanted to go in a different managerial direction or that they just dont like the guy. that is going to tap into a well of unresolved animosity and the other sides new darling boy AVB is going to be put under the same kind of spotlight and scrutiny as harry was under

and just for the record...harry has never had a bad year with us, never. and he started his career with us BIG...and he had no preseason...and he had Pav / bent (not a bad player at all). So yes harry did have 4 whole seasons but he started winning from the get go...so why would people want him gone? (ironically a vocal few actually did)

sure, the sensible and fair and pragmatic view and response is to give it at least 5 games before you moan....jeeez...premature ejaculation or what after what was a very impressive game which we just happened to lose. thats fair enough about time being given.....but like i said its less to do with AVB and more to do with harry sympathisers still itching for issues.

for instance people talking about pressing......harry did that as well. this isnt new to us...and in the season when pressing was a major focusing point....we didnt it for large parts of games, we set defensive records both home and in league for us personally and Emirates Marketing Project fans claimed we were doping our players. AVB does it and people think he's invented the wheel.

but yeah give him time, look on the positives etc etc..i was extremely impressed with alot i saw against Saudi Sportswashing Machine .
 
Im inclined to think some posters see a wall of Harry bashing opponents in front of them.

I simply dont believe it to be true.

Yes, a minority simply hated the guy from the word go. Plenty were dubious about his coming in, fair enough I say.

In four years I think the majority have been broadly on board with him. Of course there are things they would have complained about, but that doesnt make them 'anti'.

The board split on this matter and now its only ever an argument of extremes and polarised views.

I liked Harry, genuinely. I appreciate much of what he did over the years. I was on the side of him moving on when it came down to him. Im very capable of holding a conversation about his negatives or his positives. Its fine.

I wonder how many people can actually do that at this point?

I like what I think AVB is setting out to do. I see both positives and negatives in his career so far, at this point I think he needs support and nothing else. With a new manager I see nothing wrong in people looking for the positives - the whole point is that things hopefully improve
 
milo said:
If Bale just hugs the left hand touchline he will be easier to defend against than if he mixes it up. In the first half of last season we played some fantastic football where Bale, Lennon and VdV were swapping positions and were very difficult to play against. What he needs to learn is when to do this and when to stick.
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The problem with Bale is that I just don't think he is particularly good at playing in tight spaces or particularly great at passing. So when the opposition is defending deep and narrow, he isn't very effective when he drifts into deeper and / or more central, and thus congested, areas of the pitch.

I'm a huge proponent of players being varied in their play - all the best teams have attacking players who display constant movement and interchanging of positions. But the key is to do that whilst still playing to your individual players' strengths, and Bale's strengths are not spraying passes from deep, attacking down the right flank or receiving the ball in tight central areas with his back to goal.

I wouldn't want to him to hug the touchline constantly because that would become too predictable, but I think the variation in his movement should take the form of making more runs in between full-backs and centre-backs, to take advantage of his pace and decent finishing / shooting. Leave the width on the right to Lennon and Walker, the playmaking from deep to Huddlestone and Modric's replacement, and the playing in the hole to VDV / Sigurdsson, Modric's replacement, Lennon and Defoe* / Ade.

I know it's not Defoe's natural game either, but I personally think he has all the physical and technical attributes to drop deeper and bring others into play with simple passes ... but that's a discussion for another day!
 
It was a fairly average performance. Like some of the previous posters I thought we started well and bossed it for a while then ran out of ideas. If this performance had come with Harry still in charge there would be uproar on here (Livermore in central midfield???? Defoe up front on his own??? Whys Harry not told Bale to stick to the left??? This is proof that Harry is tactically clueless etc etc) but with a new man at the helm he is given a bye ball and rightly so, at the end of the day he needs to be given a chance to prove himself.

However our performance yesterday and just the general 'feel' that I got from watching it does not fill me full of confidence. Hopefully I am proven wrong.
 
thfcsteff said:
Getting back to the topic of the thread itself, I think that Ade/ striker aside, the single biggest issue we had on Saturday was the lack of a ball player like Modric. It was a massive loss, and I think we actually over-achieved in this regard without him. VdV tried to be the ball carrier/playmaker when he came on, and true, some of his passing/vision was great, but we need a dynamo like Modric on the ball and looking for it. Frankly, I'd like to see what Carroll can become this season, and even though Moutinho is not Modric, he is a player who likes to dictate the game and the ball. I was pleasantly surprised at how many chances we created on Saturday in all honesty...
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Should have gotten Arda last season. Edit: He'd only cost £20m at the moment. Probably a little less
 
FAO Golfball:

Gotta jump back on the point that 'a good performance' and being 'better than your opponents' are two different things. I don't think that's the case at all.

Each game is in isolation, two teams playing against each other. Through tactics and the ability of the players, you try to beat the other team. The strategy you use will either work or not but you try and beat the other team. It means you may do certain things in one game and not in another. But I will maintain that if you are 'worried' after our game against Saudi Sportswashing Machine or have a bad first impression of AVB after that, then you do worry too much. He was missing a key striker, a key creator, and slightly less important a more suited keeper. And we were still the better team. If we had won that game or one of the numerous more chances we created gone in, I would have to massively question someone saying they were worried about the performance. And yet it was a puff of wind away from happening.

I don't think anyone has the inclination to mention Harry. I don't think anyone was annoyed last season with Harry that we would fail to convert clear cut chances and draw a game. That's down to player finishing. Certainly people were frustrated with the abject performances at home to Stoke, Norwich, away to QPR, Villa, and GHod knows how many where we were a totally different side to the one that played in the first half of the season. But for what it's worth, I was one of the people defending him before it became clear a change was needed.
 
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Saw great signs today. You can see what we are trying to do. If the squad was more suited to how he wants to play I don't believe he will ever be chucking on 2 strikers up top ala Harry, but we are at that annoying stage of the season where we are hamstrung by our financial position as a club and haven't finalised our business yet.

We need a goalkeeper who is more suited to the system. People argued strongly that Friedel could have another year, even playing under AVB, but I really don't think we can go on like it.

We need a Modric replacement. I'm certain it will come, so I'm not too worried there. Hopefully Moutinho.

We need a striker capable of playing up top on his own. Defoe isn't suited to this squad, and Ade isn't enough. I'm fairly happy with Kane as a young 3rd option.

We need a wide forward capable of coming in off the right and finishing the chances we create - how we got the ball into good positions today was a really impressive part of our play, cutting back with the goal gaping. It's a shame Lennon isn't more of a goal threat.

We do this, and we will have a great season. I'm truly certain of it.
 
Agreed. I also think you need to have two defensive midfielders to play the high line otherwise if the opposition have anyone that can run at your defenders you're in big trouble.
 
I think we need more games to make any firm judgements. We did lack craft and creativity today and despite the implementation of a clear system of play I genuinely think we lacked the personnel. For instance many suggested Livermore was more effective today than Sandro. On an individual basis that may well be true, but in terms of the system the two did not do what we needed them to do. Sandro for me is the clear started in his position but will be most effective along side a Modric who can dictate the balance and tempo of our play. Until the window closes it is hard to tell what AVB really wants his team to do. That said, his subs today were poor imo. Had Harry made those I am pretty sure he would have been slated.
 
Because we are press higher up the pitch, we end up playing in tight spaces, with no room behind their defence to run into. But we have some of the best players in the Premiership for running at and exploiting that space - Bale and Lennon. From the two games so far, I don't think there is any chance of this type of system working without additional players - a striker (Ade definitely not enough - Lukaku was a monster) and some dribbling and creativity. And even then I still don't think the pressing high game suits some of our better players. We look better dropping and playing on the counter.

And when the game does open up more, in the second half, we are too knackered from all that pressing to exploit it.

Let's hope Levy opens his wallet, and the right players want to come.
 
Nothing wrong with Ade. He links up play great, runs the channels, holds the ball up well and can score goals. But having watched Lukaku down the other end, I couldn't help thinking with a strong quick player like that, who aggressively drives at the goal, is handful in the box, and keeps both CB's occupied, we would get more goals. We need a player like that as well. Ade is good but different.
 
ringo said:
Nothing wrong with Ade. He links up play great, runs the channels, holds the ball up well and can score goals. But having watched Lukaku down the other end, I couldn't help thinking with a strong quick player like that, who aggressively drives at the goal, is handful in the box, and keeps both CB's occupied, we would get more goals. We need a player like that as well. Ade is good but different.
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think you are right. He is ideal for us. A Drogba like player.
 
not trying to stoke the fire any but if you replace Modric with Livermore we're probably 2-0 at this point in time. AVB's not playing with a full hand at the moment and we all know that. Right now JJ is the only player in the squad resembling a true creative CM so who else was AVB supposed to choose? (cue argument for the overweight Hudd)
 
VolSpur said:
not trying to stoke the fire any but if you replace Modric with Livermore we're probably 2-0 at this point in time. AVB's not playing with a full hand at the moment and we all know that. Right now JJ is the only player in the squad resembling a true creative CM so who else was AVB supposed to choose? (cue argument for the overweight Hudd)
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In what way does Jenas resemble a true creative CM? (Apart from wearing boots and a football kit).
 
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