Antonio Conte - officially NOT the coach of THFC

[glasgowspur]

He didn't give time because Mourinho talked his way into the job. He lied to get it IMO.

I don't think he lied, i think he honestly thought he had what it takes to get a talented group over the line.
He did definitely whisper in Levy's ear that all that was missing was the right guiding voice.
Jose saw finally getting us a trophy as the cherry on his career, he could bow out as the worker of miracles. He overestimated both himself and our squad.
It doesn't surprise me that levy couldn't see it but it does shock me that Jose couldn't see that that group just did not have it in them.

 

[harr1984]

I don't think he lied, i think he honestly thought he had what it takes to get a talented group over the line.
He did definitely whisper in Levy's ear that all that was missing was the right guiding voice.
Jose saw finally getting us a trophy as the cherry on his career, he could bow out as the worker of miracles. He overestimated both himself and our squad.
It doesn't surprise me that levy couldn't see it but it does shock me that Jose couldn't see that that group just did not have it in them.

Certainly can’t say he lied considering he took us to a final then got sacked depriving him of the chance to prove could win a trophy with us….

 

[Finney Is Back]

He did back him with a £150m spend that summer covering areas that did need investment in
But he also didn’t give him time, as we know the previous seasons poor form was carrying on

He got 3 first team players late in the window, two of which were injured and was then sacked 12 games into the season. Finally giving a manager an amount to spend commensurate with their managerial achievements and then sacking them before those players have a chance to be integrated is short sighted.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

He got 3 first team players late in the window, two of which were injured and was then sacked 12 games into the season. Finally giving a manager an amount to spend commensurate with their managerial achievements and then sacking them before those players have a chance ti be integrated is short sighted.

id have given him the season
He had earned it imo
But the form that season was a carry over from the previous one
I also think Poch didn’t know how to or didn’t manage to adapt to the change in his role
Said it countless times but the best managers change their coaches. That fresh voice and new ideas (even if there the same ones) makes a huge difference

 

[glasgowspur]

Certainly can’t say he lied considering he took us to a final then got sacked depriving him of the chance to prove could win a trophy with us….

I quite like jose, once you accept that he is what he is and not going to change it becomes easier.
However he is not and should not have been a manager of spurs, they are not compatible.
But if you could have picked one game for him to manage it would have been that one.
A Cup final against pep was made for Jose.
It was a bizarre decision.

 

[monkeybarry]

Yes mate, I remember people thinking he'd 'reached his ceiling'...my opinions have not changed.

How are you measuring the degree of tint, and by what definition?

There seems to be an air that Poch is some kind of saviour - if (and I'm in favour) he comes back, we need to be pragmatic. He did a great job building here. There is a ? over whether he can push past that, and no evidence that he can.

 

[monkeybarry]

I don't think you can say he'd reached his ceiling when he never had the tools (money) availed to other managers.

Exhausted, yes.

It's impossible to know either way. But there was a large feeling that that was the case and a change was needed.
If he'd gone to PSG and smashed it, then that's evidence he has a higher ceiling. He didn't. By PSG standards, it was mediocre at best.
I'm not saying he can't/won't be a success. I'm saying we need to be realistic with expectations. (Coz, you know, that's our strength!)

 

[Gutter Boy]

There seems to be an air that Poch is some kind of saviour - if (and I'm in favour) he comes back, we need to be pragmatic. He did a great job building here. There is a ? over whether he can push past that, and no evidence that he can.

Is the evidence not that he's been the only manager in the past 40 years who has really performed with the club?

 

[monkeybarry]

Is the evidence not that he's been the only manager in the past 40 years who has really performed with the club?

That's evidence that he's a good coach and builder. He also evidenced this at Soton.
It's not evidence he can take us any further than he did before. PSG indicated he may not be able to.
I'm not saying either way - just being cautious.

 

[Grays_1890]

BANG on the money. Yes!

To add to 'our chairman' bit, he allowed himself to be wowed by his long-time obsession who lied to him about what he could do with the same squad. A mistake we continue to pay for...

FWIW I do not think Poch is coming back unless there's some serious shifts in the boardroom structure. That is speculation on my part, based on prior history which is out there for those who want to track it down.

I agree on this part, Levy allowed himself to be sucked into the idea we are now a huge club and got sexed up by the idea of Jose when in reality, based on where we were as a club we should have stuck with the manager in the mould of Poch, or Poch (but I don't wanna argue all day about Poch again). To then Go Nuno (WTF) and Conte (a blast back to a Jose type) then its all in all been a shower from the board on matching the vision with the manager...

 

[Gutter Boy]

That's evidence that he's a good coach and builder. He also evidenced this at Soton.
It's not evidence he can take us any further than he did before. PSG indicated he may not be able to.
I'm not saying either way - just being cautious.

We came close runner up in the two biggest competitions in the world (CL and EPL). If he could get anywhere close to that again, I'm sure everyone would be delighted.

 

[Surfless]

I'm on holiday and just took the time to read the last ten pages of this thread - what an articulate and knowledgeable bunch we have on here.

Here's a question for everyone, remembering I'm pro Poch returning.

If Jose or Conte had the squad that Poch had - dembele, Jan, Toby, walker, rose, Kane, eriksen, alli, etc would we have won something? I fancy we might have done. Would it have been fun to watch? Probably not.

Our two "win now" manager appointments would have been able to mould the squad that came third in a two horse race into winners, I've no doubt - but they would also have bored us to tears doing it. Poch got us flying, believing and roaring!

So do we want turgid football and a cup or Tottenham playing as Bill Nic prescribed, with passion and flair?

Final footnote - the failure of both Jose and Conte comes down to the purchase of a centre back. Jose got Rodon and Conte got Lenglet.

 

[monkeybarry]

We came close runner up in the two biggest competitions in the world (CL and EPL). If he could get anywhere close to that again, I'm sure everyone would be delighted.

Indeed. And that is where the expectation baselined at - I'm sure most would agree that was overachieving, and we weren't far off par when he left (or now!). Which is where the question about whether he can push past it or not comes in as well as me trying to manage expectations.

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

That's evidence that he's a good coach and builder. He also evidenced this at Soton.
It's not evidence he can take us any further than he did before. PSG indicated he may not be able to.
I'm not saying either way - just being cautious.

Any success that's worthy at PSG is to win the CL....every manager they've had has failed that.

Expectations for us (not just with Poch, generally) is a whole other conversation.

 

[parklane1]

We should also be careful not to rewrite history here - a hell of a lot of fans had concluded Poch had reached his ceiling and felt a change was needed to make the next step forward.
Poch didn't exactly pull up trees at PSG either - we are looking through rose tinted glasses when it comes to Poch.

Without a doubt there are those who are actually doing that ( and i say this as one who would have given Poch to the end of the season before making the judgement to sack him). He was great for us no doubt but that last spell under him was poor to say the least. But its what fans do and our fans are no different to other clubs fans, i do not want Pooch back and want us to move onwards past what he did or not do.

 

[Finney Is Back]

I don't think he lied, i think he honestly thought he had what it takes to get a talented group over the line.
He did definitely whisper in Levy's ear that all that was missing was the right guiding voice.
Jose saw finally getting us a trophy as the cherry on his career, he could bow out as the worker of miracles. He overestimated both himself and our squad.
It doesn't surprise me that levy couldn't see it but it does shock me that Jose couldn't see that that group just did not have it in them.

He might’ve got one if he was given the chance to actually manage the team

I'm on holiday and just took the time to read the last ten pages of this thread - what an articulate and knowledgeable bunch we have on here.

Here's a question for everyone, remembering I'm pro Poch returning.

If Jose or Conte had the squad that Poch had - dembele, Jan, Toby, walker, rose, Kane, eriksen, alli, etc would we have won something? I fancy we might have done. Would it have been fun to watch? Probably not.

Our two "win now" manager appointments would have been able to mould the squad that came third in a two horse race into winners, I've no doubt - but they would also have bored us to tears doing it. Poch got us flying, believing and roaring!

So do we want turgid football and a cup or Tottenham playing as Bill Nic prescribed, with passion and flair?

Final footnote - the failure of both Jose and Conte comes down to the purchase of a centre back. Jose got Rodon and Conte got Lenglet.

if they had sacrificed the league campaign to make the cups the priority then yeah…. But Pochettino also could’ve done this I think.

 

[thfcsteff]

There seems to be an air that Poch is some kind of saviour - if (and I'm in favour) he comes back, we need to be pragmatic. He did a great job building here. There is a ? over whether he can push past that, and no evidence that he can.

I wouldn't worry. He won't be back any time soon IMO. FWIW he's also gained a lot of experience at PSG. He will not quite be what he was first time.
Saviour? Who knows. The world spends a lot of time looking for one in many areas. Human condition? Perhaps...

 

[glasgowspur]

He might’ve got one if he was given the chance to actually manage the team

if they had sacrificed the league campaign to make the cups the priority then yeah…. But Pochettino also could’ve done this I think.

Bizarre decision in the cup final tbh.
We need to realise that for a cup and Europe is a success, as is no cup and CL.
As we progress and strengthen the squad then a cup and CL qualification becomes a success.
Unless the stars really align i think the PL is beyond us for the foreseeable, but winning the CL shouldn't be.

 

[SpurMeUp]

id have given him the season
He had earned it imo
But the form that season was a carry over from the previous one
I also think Poch didn’t know how to or didn’t manage to adapt to the change in his role
Said it countless times but the best managers change their coaches. That fresh voice and new ideas (even if there the same ones) makes a huge difference

I agree he deserved a season to turn it around. However, it was almost merciful to give Poch a rest at that point. Emotionally he was drained. He hadn't recovered from the CL loss. And his stellar signings had let him down badly. That was the biggest issue. Had Ndombele come in and been the player we thought he would be, driving our midfield, history would be very different. As it was we had nothing in midfield, and Poch was floundering trying to make something out of nothing.

Fresh coaches, ideas, and having a setup that doesn't rely just on you, is underrated. The manager is the figurehead and fans think everything goes through them. That is a poorly functioning organisation, truth be told. With Poch you feel like if he was off-colour no else would be able to hold the fort.

 

[Gutter Boy]

I'm on holiday and just took the time to read the last ten pages of this thread - what an articulate and knowledgeable bunch we have on here.

Here's a question for everyone, remembering I'm pro Poch returning.

If Jose or Conte had the squad that Poch had - dembele, Jan, Toby, walker, rose, Kane, eriksen, alli, etc would we have won something? I fancy we might have done. Would it have been fun to watch? Probably not.

Our two "win now" manager appointments would have been able to mould the squad that came third in a two horse race into winners, I've no doubt - but they would also have bored us to tears doing it. Poch got us flying, believing and roaring!

So do we want turgid football and a cup or Tottenham playing as Bill Nic prescribed, with passion and flair?

Final footnote - the failure of both Jose and Conte comes down to the purchase of a centre back. Jose got Rodon and Conte got Lenglet.

I don't think it works like that. Neither would have liked that squad. It was too cavalier and flair orientated. They both would have changed out say Eriksen and Dembele for someone more Hojbjerg and and say used Dier as a 3rd CB (in addition to Wanyama at DM). Maybe used Trippier and Davies more than Walker and Rose (who were both too maverick in style and personality).

So basically they would have ruined everything that was great about that side, and tried to build us a different Poundland Chelsea instead.