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Antonio Conte - officially NOT the coach of THFC

Finney Is Back said:
The 'Averages a cup every decade' thing is a little disingenuous. Remember that Spurs Spent more than half of their time outside the top division prior to promotion in 1950. Since then Spurs won (ignoring Charity Shields):
1950s: 1 trophy
1960s: 5 trophies
1970s: 3 trophies
1980s: 3 trophies
1990s: 2 trophies
2000s: 1 trophy
2010s: 0 trophies.
2020s: 0 trophies (so far with 40% of the decade gone).

So since being considered one of the big clubs we have won an average of 2.8 trophies a decade until the point that ENIC took over, since when we have won an average of 0.4 trophies per decade.

I agree with some of your caveats. Though I will say that the scenario this year where Arsenal are reasonably likely to win the league (please GHod no!) would never happen under Levy as he would've dispensed of Arteta in 2019/20 when they finished 8th and if not in 2019/20 then certainly in 2020/21 when they finished 8th again.
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Nearly every club has seen a similar trend due to the financial doping rise of city and chelsea. Think they've won 42% of trophies in the last decade.

If you looked at average league position. We're the best we've ever been.
 
glorygloryeze said:
Not sure we actually do go further in cups these days actually but i'll leave that to Stattos to argue about. We certainly finish higher in the league on average compared to the 90s. You could say we should given our stature etc, but we don't have a GHod given right to do so.

Certainly doing well business wise AND winning should go hand in hand and that's what should be the aim every season and to that end id we fail it should be a 'heroic' failure like our motto "To Dare is To Do". And that should be from the top of the club to the bottom.
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Fair comments, there. What we don't know - what we cannot know - is how deeply the pandemic protocols impacted the club's finances at the most critical and immediate juncture after the stadium had been built. We were on the hook for some serious coin even before the build was finalized - as we saw Pochettino fall victim to. One can only imagine how playing behind closed doors served to dramatically compound financial worries for Levy. It would have been so easy to get it wrong and send Spurs into an inescapable pit of financial despair.

Both of the Mourinho and Conte appointments fragrantly reeked of seeking a short term solution to get top 4-7 finishes and earn supplemental income from European play. Mourinho's arrival also co-incided with the Amazon doc filming season which only made us even more watchable, more reportable, even more unignorable. To media and, more importantly, to sponsors, both current and potential.

So, Levy now takes, in my view, an unfair hit for acting prudently and strategically to create short-term solutions to keep the club competitive, marketable, cash flow positive and restoring some financial sanity to the club's books.
 
greatwhitenorf said:
Fair comments, there. What we don't know - what we cannot know - is how deeply the pandemic protocols impacted the club's finances at the most critical and immediate juncture after the stadium had been built. We were on the hook for some serious coin even before the build was finalized - as we saw Pochettino fall victim to. One can only imagine how playing behind closed doors served to dramatically compound financial worries for Levy. It would have been so easy to get it wrong and send Spurs into an inescapable pit of financial despair.

Both of the Mourinho and Conte appointments fragrantly reeked of seeking a short term solution to get top 4-7 finishes and earn supplemental income from European play. Mourinho's arrival also co-incided with the Amazon doc filming season which only made us even more watchable, more reportable, even more unignorable. To media and, more importantly, to sponsors, both current and potential.

So, Levy now takes, in my view, an unfair hit for acting prudently and strategically to create short-term solutions to keep the club competitive, marketable, cash flow positive and restoring some financial sanity to the club's books.
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It's in the financials. Covid cost us £200m in lost revenue.
 
alekaras said:
All the managers you outlined have won league titles and CL finals. That's why they are regarded so highly. They have their teams performing at a consistently high level. They didn't get to where they are by winning a domestic cup every year or every other year. Do you consider Emery to be in the same class as the managers you outlined? He has won 4 Europa League trophies, but the best finish he could muster in a decent league was three 3rd place finishes with Valencia (and no, I am not counting his stint with PSG). I'd still take Poch over him anytime.
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Objectively, whilst i'd always probably prefer Poch to Emery, Emery has a better record and whilst he's not in the same class as those i listed, he has won trophies at non-elite/doped clubs.
I also doubt you'd hear him utter things such as "Cups are for egos"...
 
glorygloryeze said:
Objectively, whilst i'd always probably prefer Poch to Emery, Emery has a better record and whilst he's not in the same class as those i listed, he has won trophies at non-elite/doped clubs.
I also doubt you'd hear him utter things such as "Cups are for egos"...
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Ramos won a cup for us and it seemd to me that the following season he was prioritising UEFA Cup games over the Premier League games the following season (I can remember him picking Ledley for the UEFA games instead of the league games).
 
greatwhitenorf said:
Fair comments, there. What we don't know - what we cannot know - is how deeply the pandemic protocols impacted the club's finances at the most critical and immediate juncture after the stadium had been built. We were on the hook for some serious coin even before the build was finalized - as we saw Pochettino fall victim to. One can only imagine how playing behind closed doors served to dramatically compound financial worries for Levy. It would have been so easy to get it wrong and send Spurs into an inescapable pit of financial despair.

Both of the Mourinho and Conte appointments fragrantly reeked of seeking a short term solution to get top 4-7 finishes and earn supplemental income from European play. Mourinho's arrival also co-incided with the Amazon doc filming season which only made us even more watchable, more reportable, even more unignorable. To media and, more importantly, to sponsors, both current and potential.

So, Levy now takes, in my view, an unfair hit for acting prudently and strategically to create short-term solutions to keep the club competitive, marketable, cash flow positive and restoring some financial sanity to the club's books.
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Some very fair points re the Covid period and that Amazon doc stuff (which i still can't bring myself to watch).
I'd have some more forgiveness for thsoe short-term solutions if Levy hadn't uttered the whole "Spurs DNA" stuff, which confirmed that he's happy to try and pull the wool over fans eyes. Actions speak louder than words after all....
 
Finney Is Back said:
Ramos won a cup for us and it seemd to me that the following season he was prioritising UEFA Cup games over the Premier League games the following season (I can remember him picking Ledley for the UEFA games instead of the league games).
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Yeah, that was the polar opposite without the actual quotes.
Those actions were as bizarre as Poch's utterances (though no doubt Poch has more excuses as i doubt deep down he really feels that way about cups, or at least i hope he didn't..:eek:)
 
glorygloryeze said:
Yeah, that was the polar opposite without the actual quotes.
Those actions were as bizarre as Poch's utterances (though no doubt Poch has more excuses as i doubt deep down he really feels that way about cups, or at least i hope he didn't..:eek:)
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I think Pochettino had long term plans at Spurs and in many ways those long term plans fitted in really with with Levy's plans. Pochettino thought that our main focus had to be on continually getting into the CL to ensure that we could actually fund the stadium (we would've been in serious financial trouble without those 4 CL qualifications in a row IMO). The plan was to grow the revenue to enable more spending on first team transfers and wages. I think Pochettino would've loved to have won a cup but that wasn't a core aim from the board above him and he knew that winning (say) the FA Cup at the expense of qualifying for the CL would only result in him having even less to spend on the first team.

It was just unfortunate that our chairman chose a series of (failed) quick fixes instead of sticking with the man who was actually aligned to his vision and, with the increased backing that has occurred since Pochettino's last full season at the club, probably could've hit Levy's top 4 targets and perhaps surpassed them with a few pots as well.
 
Finney Is Back said:
I think Pochettino had long term plans at Spurs and in many ways those long term plans fitted in really with with Levy's plans. Pochettino thought that our main focus had to be on continually getting into the CL to ensure that we could actually fund the stadium (we would've been in serious financial trouble without those 4 CL qualifications in a row IMO). The plan was to grow the revenue to enable more spending on first team transfers and wages. I think Pochettino would've loved to have won a cup but that wasn't a core aim from the board above him and he knew that winning (say) the FA Cup at the expense of qualifying for the CL would only result in him having even less to spend on the first team.

It was just unfortunate that our chairman chose a series of (failed) quick fixes instead of sticking with the man who was actually aligned to his vision and, with the increased backing that has occurred since Pochettino's last full season at the club, probably could've hit Levy's top 4 targets and perhaps surpassed them with a few pots as well.
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BANG on the money. Yes!

To add to 'our chairman' bit, he allowed himself to be wowed by his long-time obsession who lied to him about what he could do with the same squad. A mistake we continue to pay for...

FWIW I do not think Poch is coming back unless there's some serious shifts in the boardroom structure. That is speculation on my part, based on prior history which is out there for those who want to track it down.
 
Finney Is Back said:
I think Pochettino had long term plans at Spurs and in many ways those long term plans fitted in really with with Levy's plans. Pochettino thought that our main focus had to be on continually getting into the CL to ensure that we could actually fund the stadium (we would've been in serious financial trouble without those 4 CL qualifications in a row IMO). The plan was to grow the revenue to enable more spending on first team transfers and wages. I think Pochettino would've loved to have won a cup but that wasn't a core aim from the board above him and he knew that winning (say) the FA Cup at the expense of qualifying for the CL would only result in him having even less to spend on the first team.

It was just unfortunate that our chairman chose a series of (failed) quick fixes instead of sticking with the man who was actually aligned to his vision and, with the increased backing that has occurred since Pochettino's last full season at the club, probably could've hit Levy's top 4 targets and perhaps surpassed them with a few pots as well.
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He did back him with a £150m spend that summer covering areas that did need investment in
But he also didn’t give him time, as we know the previous seasons poor form was carrying on
 
thfcsteff said:
BANG on the money. Yes!

To add to 'our chairman' bit, he allowed himself to be wowed by his long-time obsession who lied to him about what he could do with the same squad. A mistake we continue to pay for...

FWIW I do not think Poch is coming back unless there's some serious shifts in the boardroom structure. That is speculation on my part, based on prior history which is out there for those who want to track it down.
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We should also be careful not to rewrite history here - a hell of a lot of fans had concluded Poch had reached his ceiling and felt a change was needed to make the next step forward.
Poch didn't exactly pull up trees at PSG either - we are looking through rose tinted glasses when it comes to Poch.
 
monkeybarry said:
We should also be careful not to rewrite history here - a hell of a lot of fans had concluded Poch had reached his ceiling and felt a change was needed to make the next step forward.
Poch didn't exactly pull up trees at PSG either - we are looking through rose tinted glasses when it comes to Poch.
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It’s because he was our man, our guy. The manager that wanted to be here
We haven’t had that since
 
monkeybarry said:
We should also be careful not to rewrite history here - a hell of a lot of fans had concluded Poch had reached his ceiling and felt a change was needed to make the next step forward.
Poch didn't exactly pull up trees at PSG either - we are looking through rose tinted glasses when it comes to Poch.
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I don't think you can say he'd reached his ceiling when he never had the tools (money) availed to other managers.

Exhausted, yes.
 
Is Conte's departure linked to Paratici's legal issues? Perhaps it was the last straw for him in a difficult year both on the personal and professional sides.
 
monkeybarry said:
We should also be careful not to rewrite history here - a hell of a lot of fans had concluded Poch had reached his ceiling and felt a change was needed to make the next step forward.
Poch didn't exactly pull up trees at PSG either - we are looking through rose tinted glasses when it comes to Poch.
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Yes mate, I remember people thinking he'd 'reached his ceiling'...my opinions have not changed.

How are you measuring the degree of tint, and by what definition?
 
Bedfordspurs said:
He did back him with a £150m spend that summer covering areas that did need investment in
But he also didn’t give him time, as we know the previous seasons poor form was carrying on
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He didn't give time because Mourinho talked his way into the job. He lied to get it IMO.
 
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