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Antonio Conte - officially NOT the coach of THFC

Raziel said:
Lloris has had a bad season, and those mistakes have cost us. But the outfield doesn't magically play brick because of Lloris.

I think there is a real question of is Conte the reason we are in with a shout at 4th or the reason we are struggling for 4th despite our regular competition bricking the bed?

- His failure to evaluate the WB situation is interesting, he had Doherty/Royal & Spence there, but forced the club to buy a £40M+ replacement, dump Doherty and loan Spence when the opposite side had an injury prone, struggling player in Sess and an underwhelming older player in Perisic
- His absolute miss in not bringing in Sarr into the fold earlier, Skipp similar but more affected by injuries
- We all can debate the value of having 2 in midfield constantly overrun and his overplaying of Bentancur
- Buy Danjuma and play Lucas?
- Refusal to sub Son/Deki when they are out of form, having bad games (wtf is the point of buying depth if you don't use it)
- Defensive coaching/tactics (fudging Everton has conceded less than us)

The excuse constantly is, he doesn't have x player (not sure how that is different to any other manager), but never addressing above
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Conte doesn't get a free pass, but a goalkeeper has a huge impact on the defence. If the defence has a goalkeeper that they can't trust they are nervous and waiting for a mistake so they can react instead of concentrating on what they should be doing.
Against Arsenal we were comfortable even though we had little possession up until Hugo's howler (I won't say he threw the ball into his own net in case it upsets anyone). After that the game changed, we opened up more and gifted chances to Arsenal.
 
Finney Is Back said:
OK then just to please you....

'None of those clubs happen to have a goalkeeper who is well past his best and has made far too many big mistakes this season that have directly cost their team goals and likely points'. How's that? Do you feel better now?

Note that I respect Lloris' 10 years of service. However IMO he has been the weakest link in our defence this season (and that is amongst a few weak links). His past 10 years service should not get him a free pass when it comes to us wanting our team to have as good a chance as possible to win trophies.
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Every players time eventually comes to an end no matter how good they have been previously. Lloris' time is just about up. I hope he knows it rather than continue and tarnish what he has done for the club during his time here.
 
Finney Is Back said:
OK then just to please you....

'None of those clubs happen to have a goalkeeper who is well past his best and has made far too many big mistakes this season that have directly cost their team goals and likely points'. How's that? Do you feel better now?

Note that I respect Lloris' 10 years of service. However IMO he has been the weakest link in our defence this season (and that is amongst a few weak links). His past 10 years service should not get him a free pass when it comes to us wanting our team to have as good a chance as possible to win trophies.
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Show me a goalkeeper that hasn't made a mistake and cost his side points. Again, yes, Hugo has been poor (especially since the World Cup.) But you literally said he was throwing the ball in his own net regularly and I couldn't let that comment go.

That's the last I have to say on it.
 
DubSpur said:
Every players time eventually comes to an end no matter how good they have been previously. Lloris' time is just about up. I hope he knows it rather than continue and tarnish what he has done for the club during his time here.
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I hope people show him the respect he deserves when he does though. Not commenting on this conversation but I have read so much vicious bile about him and players like Son who people call all sorts of name on here which is why I understand where @tommysvr is coming from to an extent.

Yeh I have called players poor and I try better to real that in and give balance for when they play well, but no way in a million years do club legends like these two deserve to hate they get (not just in OMTs)
 
Raziel said:
Lloris has had a bad season, and those mistakes have cost us. But the outfield doesn't magically play brick because of Lloris.

I think there is a real question of is Conte the reason we are in with a shout at 4th or the reason we are struggling for 4th despite our regular competition bricking the bed?

- His failure to evaluate the WB situation is interesting, he had Doherty/Royal & Spence there, but forced the club to buy a £40M+ replacement, dump Doherty and loan Spence when the opposite side had an injury prone, struggling player in Sess and an underwhelming older player in Perisic
- His absolute miss in not bringing in Sarr into the fold earlier, Skipp similar but more affected by injuries
- We all can debate the value of having 2 in midfield constantly overrun and his overplaying of Bentancur
- Buy Danjuma and play Lucas?
- Refusal to sub Son/Deki when they are out of form, having bad games (wtf is the point of buying depth if you don't use it)
- Defensive coaching/tactics (fudging Everton has conceded less than us)

The excuse constantly is, he doesn't have x player (not sure how that is different to any other manager), but never addressing above
Click to expand...

When laid out so starkly like that, you really do wonder what the point of "backing Conte" really is....he certainly has to earn more of his corn on the training pitch, make better and more thorough use of what he does have at his disposal and show he can be up for a fight when other coaches start to adjust to what you have done well up to a point (i.e. PL coaches adjusting to our very effective play that clinched us 4th).

The fact that we have played well in possibly only ten games this season so far speaks volumes - and not in a good way...
 
Raziel said:
I'm not defending Lloris, I'm saying the problems we have on pitch are way more than a replace the keeper issue and those come down to Conte
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I don’t agree
I think a key feature of our failure has been conceding that key goal in key games, games against our peer
Hugo has failed miserably on those games and that roosters up any strategy and plan that we may have as a team

no plan allows for a keeper to play like Hugo has in some games
 
Raziel said:
I'm not defending Lloris, I'm saying the problems we have on pitch are way more than a replace the keeper issue and those come down to Conte
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Hugo has had a stinker of a season and I am a huge fan but as I said about our defence he is far from the only culprit of poor games. Will be interesting how the rest of the season plays out without him, I mean we can't blame him for Leicester whalloping us as much as some probably would still like to blame him ha
 
glorygloryeze said:
When laid out so starkly like that, you really do wonder what the point of "backing Conte" really is....he certainly has to earn more of his corn on the training pitch, make better and more thorough use of what he does have at his disposal and show he can be up for a fight when other coaches start to adjust to what you have done well up to a point (i.e. PL coaches adjusting to our very effective play that clinched us 4th).

The fact that we have played well in possibly only ten games this season so far speaks volumes - and not in a good way...
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Exactly, thing is Conte is a master of PR

- This club has made CL 5 out of last 7 seasons, yet this fudging guy makes out like it's some miracle that is beyond this squad, and he is so handicapped, and the gap is sooo big, and everyone buys it hook line and sinker.
- All we had to do was win at Leicester, Villa home and we would be comfortably top 4 instead of barely hanging on.

Always an excuse, always distancing himself from the club, not committed, I really don't see the point ..
 
Bedfordspurs said:
I don’t agree
I think a key feature of our failure has been conceding that key goal in key games, games against our peer
Hugo has failed miserably on those games and that roosters up any strategy and plan that we may have as a team

no plan allows for a keeper to play like Hugo has in some games
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It's not just his howlers, the game has moved on and it now requires a goalkeeper to be decent with his feet, which Hugo has never been good with.
At his peak he was an unbelievable shot stopper, he still pulls out the occasional one, but that is starting to decline too.
 
Raziel said:
Exactly, thing is Conte is a master of PR

- This club has made CL 5 out of last 7 seasons, yet this fudging guy makes out like it's some miracle that is beyond this squad, and he is so handicapped, and the gap is sooo big, and everyone buys it hook line and sinker.
- All we had to do was win at Leicester, Villa home and we would be comfortably top 4 instead of barely hanging on.

Always an excuse, always distancing himself from the club, not committed, I really don't see the point ..
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Under nuno you thought we'd get cl?
 
Raziel said:
Conte doesn't have Nuno's squad and he's conceding goals at a worse rate than Nuno (even when considering Nuno had three 3-0 losses in a very small sample size)
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You specifically mentioned him saying that getting top 4 would be a miracle. That was last season. Where he started with nunos squad. He hasn't said it this season as far as i'm aware.
 
We conceded four against Leicester and hugo was injured. Our record when hugo has been out has never been that great.
Our defence has been pants since before conte came in.
Our inconsistency goes back years, almost but not as far back as our record of not performing in the important games.
This has not been hugos best season, being kind there, but our problems go much deeper than one player, whether that player is hugo, dier, royal or even peh who i personally don't rate. Since peak poch we have not imho played as a complete team, any weakness or loss of form is exposed.
 
A lot of talk about Lloris and his not being the keeper he was and its true he is not. What i will say he is the 3rd best keeper i have seen in our shirt since i first started supporting the club. I see some are saying that it is no surprise that he has made so many fudgeups when he is behind our CBs and there is some truth in that, however you can turn that round and say our CBs never know what Lloris is going to do and are always looking over their shoulders to see what/where he is.

I played CB at the end of my playing days and and you need your keeper to let you know/ give you orders of what you should be doing. Lloris has never been a vocal keeper even during his best days ( and he has had many of them) he never really commanded his defenders.
 
parklane1 said:
A lot of talk about Lloris and his not being the keeper he was and its true he is not. What i will say he is the 3rd best keeper i have seen in our shirt since i first started supporting the club. I see some are saying that it is no surprise that he has made so many fudgeups when he is behind our CBs and there is some truth in that, however you can turn that round and say our CBs never know what Lloris is going to do and are always looking over their shoulders to see what/where he is.

I played CB at the end of my playing days and and you need your keeper to let you know/ give you orders of what you should be doing. Lloris has never been a vocal keeper even during his best days ( and he has had many of them) he never really commanded his defenders.
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Jennings and clemence or you going ditchburn and brown?
 
Grays_1890 said:
Hugo has had a stinker of a season and I am a huge fan but as I said about our defence he is far from the only culprit of poor games. Will be interesting how the rest of the season plays out without him, I mean we can't blame him for Leicester whalloping us as much as some probably would still like to blame him ha
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No but we can blame him for home defeats against Saudi Sportswashing Machine, villa and arsenal
 
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