Antonio Conte - officially NOT the coach of THFC

[DubSpur]

We've had three full time managers since Pochettino mate (and even Poch tried to upgrade him with Wanyama). Dier was fine under Pochettino with Toby, Jan and Dembele around him, maybe he'd be fine again with players as good as those around him? I'd rather also try to also bring in a player as good as those to play instead of Dier as well, he is a limited player, if we were open to selling him do you think it would be the likes of Liverpool, Emirates Marketing Project, Chelsea, Arsenal and Man Utd trying to buy him?

Four managers and they have all used Dier when he has been available. I'll take their judgement over yours.
I'd like Dier upgraded on, but he is far from our biggest issue at this time. We need to prioritise. With the transfer budget we will have it's unlikely that he will be replaced for another season or two and until the areas that we have the biggest issues in are sorted. He would also be a very good squad player so not someone I'd be looking to sell.

 

[Finney Is Back]

Four managers and they have all used Dier when he has been available. I'll take their judgement over yours.
I'd like Dier upgraded on, but he is far from our biggest issue at this time. We need to prioritise. With the transfer budget we will have it's unlikely that he will be replaced for another season or two and until the areas that we have the biggest issues in are sorted. He would also be a very good squad player so not someone I'd be looking to sell.

Managers who haven't really been allowed to bring in their targets though (Mourinho wanted Skriniar and Conte Bastoni). Also, I could be wrong but I think Pochettino had replaced Dier in his first choice team with Wanyama? Dier plays because, at present, he is one of the best 3 we have, I don't dispute that, but it also shouldn't mean that we should accept him as being good enough for where we want to be. I also wouldn't be looking to sell Dier by the way. I agree with you that he would be a good squad player. However If we still have Dier as a first choice player for another season or two then I don't expect us to be challenging for silverware.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Lloris, I agree. Son I think we already have his potential first team replacement in Richarlison. Doherty, Dier and Davies are midtable PL players IMO. Lenglet I can't judge quite yet. I think he has decent quality on the ball but I'm not convinced that he has the pace, physicality or ability to defend one on one out wide that I think we need to play with 3 at back really well.

My worry with Richarlison is his first touch is poor

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Dier was fine in the back 3 under Poch but now isn't good enough. Lloris and Son are the main reasons for our regression, they cause endless problems. The CBs and WBs, while not brilliant are far from the reason that this and any other formation with Lloris and Son in it will have major issues.

Hugo’s kicking is so so bad
He plays it behind the CBS when playing short
And his long balls drift slowly left to where the right back of the opposition wins it against son and it’s an attack on us

 

[Finney Is Back]

My worry with Richarlison is his first touch is poor

Like for like replacement for Son in that case!

I agree though that he does look a bit clumsy with the ball. Bissouma is another player who's first touch has concerned me seeing him playing for us. It is hard to carry players with a poor first touch, especially when having a counter attacking gameplan that relies on real precision.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Like for like replacement for Son in that case!

I agree though that he does look a bit clumsy with the ball. Bissouma is another player who's first touch has concerned me seeing him playing for us. It is hard to carry players with a poor first touch, especially when having a counter attacking gameplan that relies on real precision.

Agreed
You can’t waste a touch in this league
And especially not with “automations” if that’s contes model

 

[Raziel]

This thread is circling as usual

- Can we improve/upgrade some players? absolutely
- Do you have to seriously question a manager that is making Son look/play fudging terrible? I think you do, obviously out of form but tactics are clearly not helping here

So easy to say Dier, Lloris, Sanchez, whoever were due an upgrade and give the manager a free pass.

Then I look at the team sheet for Saudi Sportswashing Machine, or Brighton, or Fulham and watch them play .. we are vastly underperforming for the squad we have

 

[Bedfordspurs]

This thread is circling as usual

- Can we improve/upgrade some players? absolutely
- Do you have to seriously question a manager that is making Son look/play fudging terrible? I think you do, obviously out of form but tactics are clearly not helping here

So easy to say Dier, Lloris, Sanchez, whoever were due an upgrade and give the manager a free pass.

Then I look at the team sheet for Saudi Sportswashing Machine, or Brighton, or Fulham and watch them play .. we are vastly underperforming for the squad we have

But those teams don’t have a couple of key players who the system works around under performing to a level we haven’t seen from them before

Sanchez at Brighton has made mistakes in goal but they have been after they were a few up

Reya hasn’t thrown it in the net

 

[Diamond Lights]

Dier- Shouldn't be anywhere near a starting XI of a team with Top 4 aspirations.

 

[Gazza]

Dier- Shouldn't be anywhere near a starting XI of a team with Top 4 aspirations.

But when he strings three half decent games together ... the forum think he is world class and just needs a run in the team. The guy is gaff end of.

 

[DubSpur]

This thread is circling as usual

- Can we improve/upgrade some players? absolutely
- Do you have to seriously question a manager that is making Son look/play fudging terrible? I think you do, obviously out of form but tactics are clearly not helping here

So easy to say Dier, Lloris, Sanchez, whoever were due an upgrade and give the manager a free pass.

Then I look at the team sheet for Saudi Sportswashing Machine, or Brighton, or Fulham and watch them play .. we are vastly underperforming for the squad we have

It's not down to Conte that Son is playing so bad. If it was just Conte do you not think he'd have him play as well as the second half of last season?
What is down to Conte is that he keeps playing him and that should be questioned.
We are underperforming but I wouldn't say vastly. Just outside the top 4 and in the last 16 of the CL.

I don't think Conte is getting off lightly, there's plenty questioning him and his tactics. But players are a prob too e.g. Lloris throwing ball in his own net.
Conte not doing good enough and players needing replacing are not mutually exclusive events.

 

[Diamond Lights]

It's not down to Conte that Son is playing so bad. If it was just Conte do you not think he'd have him play as well as the second half of last season?
What is down to Conte is that he keeps playing him and that should be questioned.
We are underperforming but I wouldn't say vastly. Just outside the top 4 and in the last 16 of the CL.

I don't think Conte is getting off lightly, there's plenty questioning him and his tactics. But players are a prob too e.g. Lloris throwing ball in his own net.
Conte not doing good enough and players needing replacing are not mutually exclusive events.

I think you're papering over some of the cracks.

Gone behind in 11 of last 12 games. One first half goal in 14 games.

those are the recent stats. It's clear this Conte contract issue, the incessant "Spurs are lucky to have me" attitude is now costing him and us. That is obvious surely? You can't keep saying "i need more players". He has enough there to be doing better than Saudi Sportswashing Machine yet he isn't.

 

[harr1984]

I think you're papering over some of the cracks.

Gone behind in 11 of last 12 games. One first half goal in 14 games.

those are the recent stats. It's clear this Conte contract issue, the incessant "Spurs are lucky to have me" attitude is now costing him and us. That is obvious surely? You can't keep saying "i need more players". He has enough there to be doing better than Saudi Sportswashing Machine yet he isn't.

To be honest I'm bored of hearing this Saudi Sportswashing Machine comparison. They havent had any European football, let alone CL - you really reckon that with that squad they would be anywhere near were they currently are if they did? Then there are the injuries, combined with Son and Lloris turning into pub league players. And even despite all this we are 5 points off Saudi Sportswashing Machine. Yes Conte is open to criticism, but its not all on him at all and Saudi Sportswashing Machine are not a valid comparison until they are competing on two fronts....

 

[DubSpur]

I think you're papering over some of the cracks.

Gone behind in 11 of last 12 games. One first half goal in 14 games.

those are the recent stats. It's clear this Conte contract issue, the incessant "Spurs are lucky to have me" attitude is now costing him and us. That is obvious surely? You can't keep saying "i need more players". He has enough there to be doing better than Saudi Sportswashing Machine yet he isn't.

How is "Conte not doing good enough and players needing replacing are not mutually exclusive events" papering over cracks???

 

[Mcfee]

I think you're papering over some of the cracks.

Gone behind in 11 of last 12 games. One first half goal in 14 games.

those are the recent stats. It's clear this Conte contract issue, the incessant "Spurs are lucky to have me" attitude is now costing him and us. That is obvious surely? You can't keep saying "i need more players". He has enough there to be doing better than Saudi Sportswashing Machine yet he isn't.

I would call that speculation.

 

[Raziel]

It's not down to Conte that Son is playing so bad. If it was just Conte do you not think he'd have him play as well as the second half of last season?
What is down to Conte is that he keeps playing him and that should be questioned.
We are underperforming but I wouldn't say vastly. Just outside the top 4 and in the last 16 of the CL.

I don't think Conte is getting off lightly, there's plenty questioning him and his tactics. But players are a prob too e.g. Lloris throwing ball in his own net.
Conte not doing good enough and players needing replacing are not mutually exclusive events.

They are not mutually exclusive events, it is both ..

However if you have ever watched Son play, a couple of things standout, he's a WC attacking wide player, he can't play for brick with his back towards goal, he need to be going towards goal not facing away from it (his first touch isn't good enough and he doesn't roll players like Kane or even Gil), any manager should see that, and we play more like that this season vs. last.

The results may not be vastly underperforming (Villa and Forest say hi! 6 out 7 against top 6 as well) but the performances are, goals conceded, number of games we concede first, first half malaise.

 

[DubSpur]

They are not mutually exclusive events, it is both ..

However if you have ever watched Son play, a couple of things standout, he's a WC attacking wide player, he can't play for brick with his back towards goal, he need to be going towards goal not facing away from it (his first touch isn't good enough and he doesn't roll players like Kane or even Gil), any manager should see that, and we play more like that this season vs. last.

The results may not be vastly underperforming (Villa and Forest say hi! 6 out 7 against top 6 as well) but the performances are, goals conceded, number of games we concede first, first half malaise.

Son has had plenty of chances facing towards goal and has tripped over his own feet, made terrible decisions or played a terrible pass.
None of these have got to do with how he is facing, he is out of form or in permanent decline.

 

[Raziel]

To be honest I'm bored of hearing this Saudi Sportswashing Machine comparison. They havent had any European football, let alone CL - you really reckon that with that squad they would be anywhere near were they currently are if they did? Then there are the injuries, combined with Son and Lloris turning into pub league players. And even despite all this we are 5 points off Saudi Sportswashing Machine. Yes Conte is open to criticism, but its not all on him at all and Saudi Sportswashing Machine are not a valid comparison until they are competing on two fronts....

Have you looked at their squad? that's why the comparison, because Conte's go to is he needs more players, there are multiple teams with clearly inferior squads doing better player for player.

Yes, they may not have as many games, but they have had injuries, but what is most important is
- Their players look better than they were
- They are actually seem to play properly and give top teams a problem (we lose 6 out of 7)

 

[parklane1]

I would call that speculation.

At best.

 

[braineclipse]

This thread is circling as usual

- Can we improve/upgrade some players? absolutely
- Do you have to seriously question a manager that is making Son look/play fudging terrible? I think you do, obviously out of form but tactics are clearly not helping here

So easy to say Dier, Lloris, Sanchez, whoever were due an upgrade and give the manager a free pass.

Then I look at the team sheet for Saudi Sportswashing Machine, or Brighton, or Fulham and watch them play .. we are vastly underperforming for the squad we have

Don't know that much about Saudi Sportswashing Machine and Fulham, and I'm wary of drawing conclusions based on relatively small sample sizes.

Brighton have built a squad over time where all the players fit into a cohesive whole. They've recruited well over time.

I think we're moving in that direction. We're recruiting better and the new signings mostly fit in (there will be misses and players that take time). We have a clear system and plan and are trying to build a squad that fits into that plan.

It takes time though. Like Conte has said, multiple transfer windows.