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Antonio Conte - officially NOT the coach of THFC

P.D. said:
Agree with all of this, it's all well and good having a system but that system clearly isn't working and we don't have the players for it yet every week he refuses to adapt it. It's so obvious we need a 3 in midfield in some games or a more conventional 4 at the back but it never happens.

Our transfer policy also needs to be looked at, Patrici has got deals done but the squad is very lopsided. Take RB, we have Doherty for 12m, Royal for 25m and Spence for 12m. That's 50m on 3 RBs yet we're looking at spending another 35m on Porro. That will be nearly 100m on RBs, how on earth has this been allowed to happen.
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A squad is going to look lopsided when it's part way through a rebuild - which Paratichi is overseeing, it's never going to develop over 2-3 years evenly across all positions there's too many moving parts.
 
billyiddo said:
A squad is going to look lopsided when it's part way through a rebuild - which Paratichi is overseeing, it's never going to develop over 2-3 years evenly across all positions there's too many moving parts.
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It isn't lopsided though. We have one older rwb and 2 younger. We also have one older lwb and 2 younger (just one is on loan). Yes we may want to upgrade emerson and loan spence. But it isn't lopsided.
 
also should be pointed out two of those RB's were signed for different managers who preferred different systems

and we still don't have half as many RB's as we had under Redknapp
 
Lilbaz said:
It isn't lopsided though. We have one older rwb and 2 younger. We also have one older lwb and 2 younger (just one is on loan). Yes we may want to upgrade emerson and loan spence. But it isn't lopsided.
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Yeah i mean i was just continuing on from what Raz was saying tbh - if we sign Porro that means we're 4 deep at RWB and come the summer with Perisic Sess Udogie & Reggie we're 4 deep on the otherside meaning in 2 positions we're going to be stacked and looking to move on at least 4 players. Maybe lopsided isn't the right wording but i get what he's getting at, i think
 
billyiddo said:
Yeah i mean i was just continuing on from what Raz was saying tbh - if we sign Porro that means we're 4 deep at RWB and come the summer with Perisic Sess Udogie & Reggie we're 4 deep on the otherside meaning in 2 positions we're going to be stacked and looking to move on at least 4 players. Maybe lopsided isn't the right wording but i get what he's getting at, i think
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or have plenty of energy for rotation in a key slot
 
billyiddo said:
Yeah i mean i was just continuing on from what Raz was saying tbh - if we sign Porro that means we're 4 deep at RWB and come the summer with Perisic Sess Udogie & Reggie we're 4 deep on the otherside meaning in 2 positions we're going to be stacked and looking to move on at least 4 players. Maybe lopsided isn't the right wording but i get what he's getting at, i think
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Yep players are hard to shift with european clubs hardly spending. Paratici is going to have to earn his living.
 
thfcsteff said:
Agreed in general, but the principle definition of the transaction was pot-boiled down for mass media i.e. not 'decluttered', and as such (given where we are isn the world) the narrative was both set and allowed to run. Fine print was in there. The blast trumpet focused on the figure. It was cleverly played Billy, and no-one at the club stepped up to make sure the full scope was clear. In the end, we did not buy beyond our usual practices bar Richarlison, who ended up costing around 25 million if you factor in the Bergwijn/CCV sales. I also don't believe we ever drew down the final 50? Complete side-note, I wonder where Paratici is? I wonder if the Italian stuff is weighing him down somehow???
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Our usual practice is to sell to buy; this allowed us to buy then sell, or as it turned out, buy then loan. We couldn't get some of the players we really wanted, so we've held back rather than just buy anyone, something Klopp has been lauded for over his pursuit of van Dijk, and the opposite of what we were slated for with the Bale Seven.
 
În the top 30 all time transfer fee spent on a player by PL clubs, 9 went to City, 8 to United, 7 to Chelsea, 3 to Liverpool, 2 to Arsenal, 1 to Saudi Sportswashing Machine and 0 to Spurs. Levi needs to start spending money if he wants top 4.
 
IulianSteaua said:
În the top 30 all time transfer fee spent on a player by PL clubs, 9 went to City, 8 to United, 7 to Chelsea, 3 to Liverpool, 2 to Arsenal, 1 to Saudi Sportswashing Machine and 0 to Spurs. Levi needs to start spending money if he wants top 4.
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How many of those have been worth it?

Grealish?
Lukaku?
Pogba?
Maguire?
Lukaku to utd?
Van dijk, yes.
Sancho?
Havertz?
Pepe?
Kepa?

Jury is still out on fofana, antony and nunez.

It's diminishing returns.
 
I’d rather keep him as don’t think we will get better. Still too soon for Poch to come back for me, once Lloris, Kane, Son, Dier, Davies etc are gone then maybe. Agree the football is bad and we don’t look coherent compared to other sides who have had their managers less or the same amount of time though. Just think he will sort them out, we are seriously hampered by injuries to Bentancur and Kulu, the only two young players in our squad with real consistent quality. Their youth means more energy and drive which we don’t get from the likes of Son and Kane anymore. Son needs to be dropped. Kulu and Kane up top with three in midfield or Richarlison in a three with Kulu and Kane. Dropping him once worked like magic, should be tried again. It would be for his own good.
 
My thoughts (as if anyone cares) are that we should give conte till the end of this season. If then levy feels he's not working (any improvement, not just results but how we're playing), then don't renew his contract but levy also resigns. Not sell the club (that's not up to him) but step down as ceo. Because it would be a huge waste of time and resources.

I hope it doesn't come to that and conte turns it around. Would love to give it till next season but some of our fanbase are so toxic i can't see it.
 
ricky2tricky4city said:
I think you make some good points.

The problem with coming with such a precise plan and set tactics and automations, giving the players strict guidelines and a message of believe in me, is if it doesn't go right it really is on you.

I really think Conte is more of a sum of its individuals type approach, I don't think we are going to get a greater than a sum of its parts outcome. And that's fine, we can get him the individuals he desires but (as he keeps saying) it will take time. The problem is, is this the only route to resolve problems or break negative patterns we are in? Just as it was new recruits that pushed us on last January? Does he possess any more tools to develop a player, use, mould a tool already in his toolbox? Some other managers are putting him to shame in this area.

BUT it is early days, barely just over a year, and it's kind of working. It's working better than Liverpool and Chelsea at the moment. He'll, even Pep lost to Brentford and draw with the mighty Everton in his last two home games so ....
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I think Conte is a greater than the sum of the parts manager. But that requires that all the players on the pitch fits the system and their role. As it is with most managers.

Some players at least he can develop I believe. And he definitely has history of moulding players to his system. None of those have been particularly evident for us so far. Not too sure what to make of that.
 
P.D. said:
Agree with all of this, it's all well and good having a system but that system clearly isn't working and we don't have the players for it yet every week he refuses to adapt it. It's so obvious we need a 3 in midfield in some games or a more conventional 4 at the back but it never happens.

The only manager I've seen stick so rigidly to a system that wasn't working was Pep in his 1st season but I guess he always knew the money was coming and at least they still played good football that season, our play is absolutely turgid.

Our transfer policy also needs to be looked at, Patrici has got deals done but the squad is very lopsided. Take RB, we have Doherty for 12m, Royal for 25m and Spence for 12m. That's 50m on 3 RBs yet we're looking at spending another 35m on Porro. That will be nearly 100m on RBs, how on earth has this been allowed to happen.
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I disagree that a change of formation is obviously a good solution. Conte was forced into that change earlier this season, didn't do us much good iirc.

Out of those RB signings only Spence was signed since Conte came in. That's the cost of frequent changes if managers.

I do agree that our transfer strategy has been poor, going back quite a while, but it seems to be improving now.
 
IulianSteaua said:
În the top 30 all time transfer fee spent on a player by PL clubs, 9 went to City, 8 to United, 7 to Chelsea, 3 to Liverpool, 2 to Arsenal, 1 to Saudi Sportswashing Machine and 0 to Spurs. Levi needs to start spending money if he wants top 4.
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There's been 30 transfers in the PL over the cost for what we paid for Ndombele & Richarlson? Find that hard to believe


Edit : https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/pre...ition_id=alle&altersklasse=&w_s=&zuab=zu&art=

This has Ndombele in there and only has Richarlson down as 48m euros which doesn't seem right.

Got to remember we've only been competing financially since the stadium opened so the other clubs have a lot of time on us.

But yeah if we want to be at the top and maintain that position we need to be making inroads to that table.
 
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LemonadeMoney said:
Our usual practice is to sell to buy; this allowed us to buy then sell, or as it turned out, buy then loan. We couldn't get some of the players we really wanted, so we've held back rather than just buy anyone, something Klopp has been lauded for over his pursuit of van Dijk, and the opposite of what we were slated for with the Bale Seven.
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As you wish mate.
It comes down to a very simple metric. Did we hire Antonio Conte thinking he'd be fine sticking around 3-4 years as a 'project' manager? My feeling is 'no'.
If we are committed to projects, then all parts need to fit or else there will be aggro.
FWIW if the noises about starting Sarr tonight are true, not only would I be delighted, it could signal that Antonio is going to bend further in how he works. Could be a good thing, if he IS going to start bending, perhaps he could start trying 4-2-3-1 ?!!! I mean, pigs will fly and all, but have to ask ;-)
 
Lilbaz said:
My thoughts (as if anyone cares) are that we should give conte till the end of this season. If then levy feels he's not working (any improvement, not just results but how we're playing), then don't renew his contract but levy also resigns. Not sell the club (that's not up to him) but step down as ceo. Because it would be a huge waste of time and resources.

I hope it doesn't come to that and conte turns it around. Would love to give it till next season but some of our fanbase are so toxic i can't see it.
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I genuinely cannot ever see him resigning whilst healthy.
 
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