Antonio Conte - officially NOT the coach of THFC

[thfcsteff]

Him being a diva -> not a surprise
Him playing painful football -> not a surprise

Him over a year in with players being bought for him, being incapable of playing a team that leverages two golden boot winners to beat Villa at home? yeah, I'm surprised.

He is certainly not innocent, but no Deccy, no Bentancur and no Richy robs him of much. Unable to rest Sonny. Our bench was...

 

[thfcsteff]

The facts are that since we moved into the stadium we have spent money, lots of it
Managers are being backed
Doesn’t mean they are happy (doesn’t help we hire somber characters)
But it’s a challenge as to how you finance the backing that some managers want
Conte has seen a huge change of players already. The fact he has chosen to not use some is on him at least partly
The £150m you talk about was spent in the summer, excluding £50m we need to still draw down on

I don't think we have spent the mythical 150 million on players. Not even 100. We had a budget before that 150 ( not huge but fairly significant) and we made approx 33 mill on Bergwijn and CCV.

 

[elltrev]

@thfcsteff, are there specific players you think we could and should have got in the summer if Levy had been willing to spend more money?

 

[Juicebox]

I don't think we have spent the mythical 150 million on players. Not even 100. We had a budget before that 150 ( not huge but fairly significant) and we made approx 33 mill on Bergwijn and CCV.

Wasn’t some of it used to pay the fee to make Romero’s move permanent?

Whilst I don’t think all £150m has been spent, but if using Transfermarkt, we have a net spend of -£131m - therefore it’s dependent on what the transfer budget was before the injection of funds. The assumption would be a large chunk has been.

 

[DubSpur]

I don't think we have spent the mythical 150 million on players. Not even 100. We had a budget before that 150 ( not huge but fairly significant) and we made approx 33 mill on Bergwijn and CCV.

Conte is being backed. We were the 4th biggest spenders in 2022, spending over £130m net. The 150m doesn't have to be spent in one window, I'd rather wait and get the right player instead of spending it just for the sake of it.
Conte has said it will take several transfer windows to get where he wants.

 

[billyiddo]

I didn't specifically mention him, I spotlit a fact. My reference was about the chairman and the board. Why hire some like Antonio Conte unless you are going to actually back him in the way he likes to be backed? Are we instead still sticking with the 'well he made it work once so we can do it again and again' mantra?' If so, it shows a serious lack of cohesive direction higher up when it comes to the football side. The point being it isn't new to Levy to behave this way.

I suppose I have to say it again. I personally think it would be the wrong move to bring Poch back, even though if it happened I'd enjoy the ride. I would rather we actually spent 150 mill as opposed to flirt the figure for what appears to be PR and let it drift. Klopp wanted 70 million or so for both Alison VDV; he got them both. Yes, he sold Coutinho, but he got them. You can surely see my point?

I am likely the biggest fool for believing he'd change his ways.

I don't think we'll spend any more or less with different managers, it's about the profile of player we are going to target and which managers are most likely to succeed with them.

 

[braineclipse]

Come on. Bentancur and Deccy were two of the greatest Jan signings ever but other than Paratici, who saw them coming? They weren't even Conte's first picks were they? Perisic (free but wages) and Richy (just shy of 60) agreed, strong, Bissouma a bargain we couldn't refuse, Lenglet a cheap loan option rather than going large, Spence not bought for Conte it seems?

The positions we need strength the most in his system remain understocked or unsigned.

I'm guessing Conte saw them coming. He reportedly tried signing Kulusevski when at Inter. Would have known a lot about Bentancur. Having multiple suitable targets is a strength of our approach, not a weakness.

Even Chelsea with all their new money couldn't sign Gvardiol. Bastoni we seemed to try. Not like there's a ton of quality left footed centre backs at that level to choose from. So we get the next best thing, a good player with experience that fits the system.

I agree that there are positions we haven't strengthened in that really could have done with an upgrade. But we really fudging needed Bentancur and Kulusevski. We really needed another CM option (Bissouma), we really needed another left/central forward option (Richarlison).

Imagine last January, had we fixed LCB and RWB, but not gotten Bentancur and Kulusevski? Wouldn't the narrative be that we didn't strengthen where we needed it most in midfield and right sided attacker?

Imagine going into this season without Richarlison, then Son or Kane picking up an injury. Didn't strengthen where we needed it most narrative would be flying high.

Again this January we seem to be targeting key areas where there are weaknesses. Takes time though.

As for Spence. I don't know mate. One player more in the young and less proven category is too much for Conte?

 

[braineclipse]

I don't think we'll spend any more or less with different managers, it's about the profile of player we are going to target and which managers are most likely to succeed with them.

This I definitely agree with. I think our hit rate with Conte and Paratici in charge is rather good so far (small sample size and still early days, but still).

 

[glasgowspur]

I didn't specifically mention him, I spotlit a fact. My reference was about the chairman and the board. Why hire some like Antonio Conte unless you are going to actually back him in the way he likes to be backed? Are we instead still sticking with the 'well he made it work once so we can do it again and again' mantra?' If so, it shows a serious lack of cohesive direction higher up when it comes to the football side. The point being it isn't new to Levy to behave this way.

I suppose I have to say it again. I personally think it would be the wrong move to bring Poch back, even though if it happened I'd enjoy the ride. I would rather we actually spent 150 mill as opposed to flirt the figure for what appears to be PR and let it drift. Klopp wanted 70 million or so for both Alison VDV; he got them both. Yes, he sold Coutinho, but he got them. You can surely see my point?

I am likely the biggest fool for believing he'd change his ways.

Re coutinho sale, can you imagine the melt down if we sold kane or son to fund strengthening.
We seem to have a tranche of support that think every time we sell our star the club will go into free fall, be relegated and end up going bust.
As deluded as Liverpool fans are at times when a player is gone he is almost dead to them, as soon as it became public countinho wanted out that was it with them, we still have fans pining for gareth bale.

 

[glorygloryeze]

I have to say the football we are watching is absolutely dire; the players look like rob ots that are scared to try anything progressive/creative.
This again feels like how the players looked under Jose and we know how negative his approach, tactics etc was.
Feels like all players are scared of doing something not pre-prescribed from training drills etc and also looks like Conte is being found put by most of the PL managers in the top half.

As much as i'd question Levy/ENIC in the transfers market overall they HAVE made a lot transfers since January and whilst we can look at the players and say they might not be good enough to challenge for the title in the end, did any of you really predict that at this stage in the season we would be getting so easily schooled by many of our competition?

If Conte is going to get plaudits for our run-in last season to clinch fourth he has to get a lot of criticism for our dire and cowardly football that we have mostly been serving up all season. Time for him to coach the team and not be so easily schooled by the likes of Ten Hag, Arteta, Emery etc

 

[Raziel]

He is certainly not innocent, but no Deccy, no Bentancur and no Richy robs him of much. Unable to rest Sonny. Our bench was...

Totally agree, but the fact that one of the "best" coaches in the world is utterly dependent on Kulusevski (a very good player, but he isn't Mbappe/Ronadlo) remains shocking.

Lets really look at the Villa game (because this is where to me the right players/investment arguments being used to defend him break down, we are better than Villa, we spend more money than Villa, etc.)
- He could have played an extra man in the midfield, e.g. Sarr/Skipp, giving one of the CMs more license to go forward and attack at right time, while allowing better control of game.
- He could have played Sess/Spence from beginning, which combined with above choice would have allowed for two attacking options (Perisic & Gil) to be on bench (his complaint)
- He could have gone 4 at the back, either from beginning of game or when we were chasing.

Honestly the Villa game smacks of Conte spent the week planning for Kulusevski to be part of the team, and when he got injured, he just refused to adapt, could not adapt? and just sat back and watched a train wreck ..

 

[glorygloryeze]

Totally agree, but the fact that one of the "best" coaches in the world is utterly dependent on Kulusevski (a very good player, but he isn't Mbappe/Ronadlo) remains shocking.

Lets really look at the Villa game (because this is where to me the right players/investment arguments being used to defend him break down, we are better than Villa, we spend more money than Villa, etc.)
- He could have played an extra man in the midfield, e.g. Sarr/Skipp, giving one of the CMs more license to go forward and attack at right time, while allowing better control of game.
- He could have played Sess/Spence from beginning, which combined with above choice would have allowed for two attacking options (Perisic & Gil) to be on bench (his complaint)
- He could have gone 4 at the back, either from beginning of game or when we were chasing.

Honestly the Villa game smacks of Conte spent the week planning for Kulusevski to be part of the team, and when he got injured, he just refused to adapt, could not adapt? and just sat back and watched a train wreck ..

Got to say it is pretty hard to argue with that...

 

[Mcfee]

Him being a diva -> not a surprise
Him playing painful football -> not a surprise

Him over a year in with players being bought for him, being incapable of playing a team that leverages two golden boot winners to beat Villa at home? yeah, I'm surprised.

AND a World Cup winning captain ffs!!!
What could possibly go wrong!

 

[Raziel]

I have to say the football we are watching is absolutely dire; the players look like rob ots that are scared to try anything progressive/creative.
This again feels like how the players looked under Jose and we know how negative his approach, tactics etc was.
Feels like all players are scared of doing something not pre-prescribed from training drills etc and also looks like Conte is being found put by most of the PL managers in the top half.

As much as i'd question Levy/ENIC in the transfers market overall they HAVE made a lot transfers since January and whilst we can look at the players and say they might not be good enough to challenge for the title in the end, did any of you really predict that at this stage in the season we would be getting so easily schooled by many of our competition?

If Conte is going to get plaudits for our run-in last season to clinch fourth he has to get a lot of criticism for our dire and cowardly football that we have mostly been serving up all season. Time for him to coach the team and not be so easily schooled by the likes of Ten Hag, Arteta, Emery etc
I

This, and people are failing to separate the arguments

- Is Levy/ENIC/board doing enough to really make Spurs compete/challenge the best sides in the country? very different conversation to did the club give the manager enough tools to beat Villa at home

I agree with your two very specific points

- The players are too slow, take too long, lack creativity because Conte expects them to do only what he told them to
- The over dependance on certain players and the willingness to leave our midfield constantly outnumbered is being exploited by every opponent.

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

He is certainly not innocent, but no Deccy, no Bentancur and no Richy robs him of much. Unable to rest Sonny. Our bench was...

Totally agree, but the fact that one of the "best" coaches in the world is utterly dependent on Kulusevski (a very good player, but he isn't Mbappe/Ronadlo) remains shocking.

Lets really look at the Villa game (because this is where to me the right players/investment arguments being used to defend him break down, we are better than Villa, we spend more money than Villa, etc.)
- He could have played an extra man in the midfield, e.g. Sarr/Skipp, giving one of the CMs more license to go forward and attack at right time, while allowing better control of game.
- He could have played Sess/Spence from beginning, which combined with above choice would have allowed for two attacking options (Perisic & Gil) to be on bench (his complaint)
- He could have gone 4 at the back, either from beginning of game or when we were chasing.

Honestly the Villa game smacks of Conte spent the week planning for Kulusevski to be part of the team, and when he got injured, he just refused to adapt, could not adapt? and just sat back and watched a train wreck ..

With the injuries to Bentancur Deki Rich we were literally back to the squad that Conte had pre last year's January window. So that probably is disheartening to Conte.

The attackers depth thing. We unluckily have three forward options out at the moment Deki Rich Moura. 2 world class forwards can still play. We look to the 6th choice to play, Gil. To benchmark whether this is a discussion (worth having), you remove 3 forward options from your peers and compare who their 6th option is. Also if it was a left sided problem you have the option of Perisic or Sess playing there, so more depth.
You can't have infinite depth. Also, how up to speed/intergrated a player is (Gill), is on the manager.

Of course he c.ould of played 352 and not had to play Gil.
It's just unlucky we have a lot of injuries in one area but I agree he probably planned the Villa game with Deki in a 343, hence not playing 352. (Which would probably suit Bissouma more)

 

[Lemonade Money]

Bentancur, Kulusevski, Perisic, Richarlison, Bissouma, Lenglet. In two windows with no big money sales. This isn't backing Conte?

It hasn't been enough. Enough to overcome two games a week, some key injuries and Son's form dropping like a brick in water. But he has been backed. We have spent real money. We haven't signed a lot of young players.

Perhaps it takes longer than a year with that starting point and a limited budget?

Levy would have also spent a lot more money if he could shift the brick he bought for Poch!

 

[glorygloryeze]

This, and people are failing to separate the arguments

- Is Levy/ENIC/board doing enough to really make Spurs compete/challenge the best sides in the country? very different conversation to did the club give the manager enough tools to beat Villa at home

I agree with your two very specific points

- The players are too slow, take too long, lack creativity because Conte expects them to do only what he told them to
- The over dependance on certain players and the willingness to leave our midfield constantly outnumbered is being exploited by every opponent.

I think he really has to up his coaching/managerial game; basically earn his corn. Getting schooled week in, week out can only be explained for so long by transfer market activity (or a feeling of a lack of). I'm hoping to see a reaction on Wednesday vs Palace both in terms of proactive team selection and in terms of reactions and efforts by the players. Make no mistake, Palace and Vieira will be well up for the game and if we are even as partially passive as normal we could get royally humiliated by the likes of Zaha, Eze and co.

 

[Lemonade Money]

(sigh) I am not saying it can be fixed in January, I am saying recognize who you have hired!!! Stop arsing about with guys like him/flirting with established winning bears, and get a project man in IF that is the remit. A penny for Paratici's thoughts right now. I wonder if Italian scandal is affecting his work?

Or, us fans can stop losing our brick, and support the players, the manager, and the board, rather than making them all doubt what they are doing because of our fudging bricky fan base!

 

[Baleforce]

Or, us fans can stop losing our brick, and support the players, the manager, and the board, rather than making them all doubt what they are doing because of our fudging bricky fan base!

they shouldn't be paying any attention to us, the only fan metric Levy should concern himself with is how much money we spend with them

 

[Raziel]

Or, us fans can stop losing our brick, and support the players, the manager, and the board, rather than making them all doubt what they are doing because of our fudging bricky fan base!

hahaha, that made me smile/laugh, first time here?

- People pointing at the Scum/Arteta this season and saying that's the model, in what world would Spurs fans accept two 8th place finishes? (we are two points of 4th and in full meltdown)
- People complaining about us being bottlers, not having winners, club hires Jose & Conte, oh but the football?
- We want the club to pour money into the team, but hey, fudge you and the ESL
- I remember Harry and Poch, lots of complaints about pretty football that got us nowhere

I don't see United (2nd biggest club in the world by most measures) winning anything in the next 3-5 years, the game is broken

And in that light, I'd be ok with us going back to model where we try to play pretty football, we try to develop young players and we build a professional club over time vs. trying to shortcut it with a "winner"