Antonio Conte - officially NOT the coach of THFC

[glasgowspur]

How many of those have been worth it?

Grealish?
Lukaku?
Pogba?
Maguire?
Lukaku to utd?
Van dijk, yes.
Sancho?
Havertz?
Pepe?
Kepa?

Jury is still out on fofana, antony and nunez.

It's diminishing returns.

£180m for maguire and Grealish, must be something in the water in Manchester.

 

[thfcsteff]

@thfcsteff, are there specific players you think we could and should have got in the summer if Levy had been willing to spend more money?

I think we absolutely should've paid for Gvardiol (yes, enormous money I know but a difference maker a la VDV), Bastoni or Torres based on what he likes (and I am not a huge fan of Torres). I would've liked to bid seriously for De Vrij or Skrinier. I am amazed our scouting wasn't onto Akanji in the summer, who would've been a far cheaper and (before City sniffed him) very gettable, fast option. I'd have gone for Zaniolo, again based on what Conte likes, there again I'd also have got Richarlison as I do not believe they're the same profile of player. RWB has me stumped I admit, my scouting eyes aren't sharp enough to have seen the bargain out there, I liked the idea of a deal for Carrasco as LWB option. Perisic was a free (albeit decent wages) but it would give Conte proper rotation with players he trusts. Currently he doesn't have that. Instead, we are flogging players to within an inch. Have to also say (and I claim no 'I told you' on this one) but Botman has been pretty great for Newcash.

I will always believe Bastoni was gettable had we showed up properly early doors and just done business. Alas, it is not the way we roll. Which I can accept so long as we admit it.

 

[thfcsteff]

I don't think we'll spend any more or less with different managers, it's about the profile of player we are going to target and which managers are most likely to succeed with them.

Exactly.

 

[thfcsteff]

Levy would have also spent a lot more money if he could shift the brick he bought for Poch!

Well who's the fool there? Why make peace with a manager, have him believe he is getting a second build, buy him two big players for that build and then allow a whispering tart and the hooh-hah phalanx to make you think you should sack him three months after giving him all that dough? It was ludicrous!!!!

 

[thfcsteff]

Re coutinho sale, can you imagine the melt down if we sold kane or son to fund strengthening.
We seem to have a tranche of support that think every time we sell our star the club will go into free fall, be relegated and end up going bust.
As deluded as Liverpool fans are at times when a player is gone he is almost dead to them, as soon as it became public countinho wanted out that was it with them, we still have fans pining for gareth bale.

I am going to get dragged back into history which is now irrelevant, but there was a similar situation to be had in the summer of 2018...

 

[billyiddo]

Well who's the fool there? Why make peace with a manager, have him believe he is getting a second build, buy him two big players for that build and then allow a whispering tart and the hooh-hah phalanx to make you think you should sack him three months after giving him all that dough? It was ludicrous!!!!

Hitchen/the club bought the players, that's why they weren't fussed about giving the manager time with the signings.

 

[thfcsteff]

Hitchen/the club bought the players, that's why they weren't fussed about giving the manager time with the signings.

Then why get such manager-favorite specific signings? Who didn't do the diligence on them beyond the pitch? Or are you suggesting that Hitchen/the club identified those two, because that was not my understanding mate. Pochettino complained of only being ' a coach' in the spring of 2019; why did Levy make amends with him? It was a really poor bit of planning and business. The truth is, Levy's head was swiveled not just by the Portuguese whisperer but by his own ego being under attack. Anyway, this is all probably a bit sideways...I really hope the current situation works out, but it feels like I'm watching Titanic again i.e. we know the ending. Here's hoping Leo and Winslett sail off in an escape speedboat at the end of this screening!

 

[glasgowspur]

Well who's the fool there? Why make peace with a manager, have him believe he is getting a second build, buy him two big players for that build and then allow a whispering tart and the hooh-hah phalanx to make you think you should sack him three months after giving him all that dough? It was ludicrous!!!!

It's difficult to argue with the sacking of poch, and i don't find that easy to write, i love the guy, but i can see why it was done.
But hiring jose is up there as one of the dumbest things levy has done. Unlike many on here I quite like jose, because i can accept him for what he is, but one thing he never was, is or should be is a manager of Tottenham Hotspur.

 

[DubSpur]

În the top 30 all time transfer fee spent on a player by PL clubs, 9 went to City, 8 to United, 7 to Chelsea, 3 to Liverpool, 2 to Arsenal, 1 to Saudi Sportswashing Machine and 0 to Spurs. Levi needs to start spending money if he wants top 4.

I'd rather we sign the right player than throw money around for the sake of it like Utd seem to do.

 

[thfcsteff]

It's difficult to argue with the sacking of poch, and i don't find that easy to write, i love the guy, but i can see why it was done.
But hiring jose is up there as one of the dumbest things levy has done. Unlike many on here I quite like jose, because i can accept him for what he is, but one thing he never was, is or should be is a manager of Tottenham Hotspur.

I think the worrying thing right now should be the patterns. Sackings occur only when it would leave the chairman looking unpopular NOT to sack a manager. He does not seem to make decisions based on anything beyond that metric. The time for Poch to have gone was that summer; I would've been flouncing around like an old tart (as opposed to my usual flouncing!) BUT it would've been the fair, decent and brave thing to do. It would also have been very unpopular for a hot minute with a tract of the supporters (i.e. your friendly flouncer-in-chief) but there we go. A big decision. Even Mourinho was done largely when it would've seen mutiny not to sack him (again, flouncer here was delighted, but that is hardly the point)...I desperately hope this is not the wave we're riding...

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

I think the worrying thing right now should be the patterns. Sackings occur only when it would leave the chairman looking unpopular NOT to sack a manager. He does not seem to make decisions based on anything beyond that metric. The time for Poch to have gone was that summer; I would've been flouncing around like an old tart (as opposed to my usual flouncing!) BUT it would've been the fair, decent and brave thing to do. It would also have been very unpopular for a hot minute with a tract of the supporters (i.e. your friendly flouncer-in-chief) but there we go. A big decision. Even Mourinho was done largely when it would've seen mutiny not to sack him (again, flouncer here was delighted, but that is hardly the point)...I desperately hope this is not the wave we're riding...

So we get to the CL final....sack the manager after...and employ Jose....yes, that would have gone down well.

 

[thfcsteff]

So we get to the CL final....sack the manager after...and employ Jose....yes, that would have gone down well.

Exactly. It wouldn't have. It isn't a popularity contest. You did see what even I said my reaction would've been. BUT if you're going to spend 120 mill on two players for a manager you made up with, don't then sack him three-four months on. And had he made that move in the summer, I would certainly not think Mourinho would've been the pick then.

 

[DaveT316]

On a side note, I do find it staggering that more people don’t reference Covid when discussing Levy’s ‘backing’, or lack thereof, of Mourinho.

Let me be clear, I despise that self-aggrandising, narcissistic bore for everything he did to blow up the club - IMHO, of course - but to say Levy is now not backing Conte like he didn’t back Mourinho is rather conveniently omitting to mention that Covid cast a HUGE spectre over what we were able to offer Mourinho in terms of recruitment.

I’m sure Levy hired him believing he would be able to offer him a lot more than he did - he’d started to offer that to Poch that summer - but then four months later, we were in lockdown. Whether he would’ve been the right manager to back is another debate altogether.

I just think it’s important context when discussing how Levy supports his managers, as we seem to lump the last few together. I actually agree with a lot of what @ricky2tricky4city said on the recent pod in that Levy, while FAR from perfect, has more recently shown that he has the capacity to change. To an extent.

Point over!

 

[DubSpur]

On a side note, I do find it staggering that more people don’t reference Covid when discussing Levy’s ‘backing’, or lack thereof, of Mourinho.

Let me be clear, I despise that self-aggrandising, narcissistic bore for everything he did to blow up the club - IMHO, of course - but to say Levy is now not backing Conte like he didn’t back Mourinho is rather conveniently omitting to mention that Covid cast a HUGE spectre over what we were able to offer Mourinho in terms of recruitment.

I’m sure Levy hired him believing he would be able to offer him a lot more than he did - he’d started to offer that to Poch that summer - but then four months later, we were in lockdown. Whether he would’ve been the right manager to back is another debate altogether.

I just think it’s important context when discussing how Levy supports his managers, as we seem to lump the last few together. I actually agree with a lot of what @ricky2tricky4city said on the recent pod in that Levy, while FAR from perfect, has more recently shown that he has the capacity to change. To an extent.

Point over!

I don't think he's changing at all, he always spent what we could afford. The belt had to be tightened when the stadium was being built and when covid hit. It can now be loosened again (and is being). The only thing that has changed is our income and what we can afford to spend. A lot of fans don't take into account the circumstances around a particular time frame and what was spent.

 

[DubSpur]

Exactly. It wouldn't have. It isn't a popularity contest. You did see what even I said my reaction would've been. BUT if you're going to spend 120 mill on two players for a manager you made up with, don't then sack him three-four months on. And had he made that move in the summer, I would certainly not think Mourinho would've been the pick then.

I'm not going to get into yet another debate on the Poch sacking, it's been done to death, but you are really over simplifying those few months.

 

[DaveT316]

I don't think he's changing at all, he always spent what we could afford. The belt had to be tightened when the stadium was being built and when covid hit. It can now be loosened again (and is being). The only thing that has changed is our income and what we can afford to spend. A lot of fans don't take into account the circumstances around a particular time frame and what was spent.

Do you not think essentially writing off assets like Dele and Aurier - ‘assets’ in the loosest sense of the term! - is not him displaying the capacity to change? Or is it the fact that we can afford to do that now as our income is greater?

Genuinely interested in your view. I definitely agree with the general point you’re making.

 

[P.D.]

I disagree that a change of formation is obviously a good solution. Conte was forced into that change earlier this season, didn't do us much good iirc.

Out of those RB signings only Spence was signed since Conte came in. That's the cost of frequent changes if managers.

I do agree that our transfer strategy has been poor, going back quite a while, but it seems to be improving now.

Doesn't have to be permanent but it's clear that we don't have the players for 3-4-3 at the present time, I don't know why they seem incapable of playing it given our run last season but confidence obviously plays a part. We could vary it to 3-5-2 for example to get an extra person in midfield or play 4 at the back for a period to try and get some form and confidence back. What's the point of constantly playing the same formation again and again when it's not working.

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

Exactly. It wouldn't have. It isn't a popularity contest. You did see what even I said my reaction would've been. BUT if you're going to spend 120 mill on two players for a manager you made up with, don't then sack him three-four months on. And had he made that move in the summer, I would certainly not think Mourinho would've been the pick then.

No it isn't a popularity contest and I'm sure Levy has realised, long ago, he's pushing water up a hill on that front.
I can't believe it's a negative that he sat down with a manager, that he clearly rated and had a close connection with (still does) to discuss refocusing and going again. Sentimentality getting in the way probably is the criticism here. Porch simply went because that refocus didn't work. Results and performances were poor...Poch went in those circumstances just like a 100 other managers (has Frank gone yet).
Jose went because he became a prick. Most likely via dressing room unhappiness, and the standard dreadful performances. I doubt Levy was aiming for 100% popularity with that one, being it was a week before a final.

 

[DubSpur]

Do you not think essentially writing off assets like Dele and Aurier - ‘assets’ in the loosest sense of the term! - is not him displaying the capacity to change? Or is it the fact that we can afford to do that now as our income is greater?

Genuinely interested in your view. I definitely agree with the general point you’re making.

Fair point.

For Dele I think he held on too long, probably because managers told him they could turn him around. Eventually it was realised, because of whatever is going on behind the scenes with him, that he was finished as a top player and managers wanted rid as it wasn't good having him around (guessing on my part here).

Aurier had baggage around him too. Had he not only a year left on his contract as well?

The greater income probably helped but I think it was a lot to do with that we would get only a minimum transfer from them and having them hanging around was a bigger negative than losing out on the transfer fees. Without being inside the club it can only be a guess but just the feeling I get around those two.

 

[IulianSteaua]

I'd rather we sign the right player than throw money around for the sake of it like Utd seem to do.

Don't you think everybody wants to sign the right player? What big spenders are doing is încreasing their chances of getting that right player through spending a bigger amount of money. A team spending an 100m/signing will EVENTUALLY have a better team than one spending 30m/signing.