Andre Villas-Boas - Head Coach

[NWND]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

Surely the 'ourselves' part includes the players?

Yeah but to be fair to AVB, talking in the collective including himself in it, is a lot better than saying "it's no me guvnor, its all down to them losers over there", which is the picture the Guardian are trying to paint.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

Of course it does, but why should the players be immune to criticism?

Their performance, regardless of the system in place, was nothing short of shameful.. Truly embarrassing effort.

Agreed. He said we, and anyone associated with the club, as the signal that we win together and we lose together. When he won manager of the month last year he made a point of getting all of his staff around the picture because the focus is on the team. If we win, he focuses on the team. He protects the players a hell of a lot, and often deflects pressure on to them. If he says that anyone that was associated with the game on Sunday should be ashamed then I'm really surprised our players are such dingdongs, and not able to take it. Why should the get the protection all season and not even have to take any responsibility for that result? The articles have made out AVB passed the blame on, but he's taken his share, he just expects the players to take theirs. There isn't anything wrong with that.

 

[NWND]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

But if he really has been briefed, why would get something so fundamentally wrong like mis-quoting AVB about the club being 'ashamed' of the loss and using it to mean everyone else except him being ashamed??
Why the business about Sandro being behind Capoue?? WTF??

Would a REAL whistle blower get these basics wrong??

Well maybe he's twisting it. As to the Capoue/Sandro thing, who knows. Dembele was quoted as stating he was told by AVB that he preferred Paulinho to him in midfield. Maybe Sandro has had a similar conversation? Afterall, Capoue started against Arsenal. It might have only been injury that stopped him being AVB's first-choice, and maybe AVB sees him as the first choice.

You know, thinking about it, Capoue has a lot of Sandro's characteristics, but is a better distributor of the ball, especially the long-pass, from what I can see, so who knows?

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

That post above should read 'often deflects pressure off of them'

 

[NWND]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

Look as well, I don't think people should get too depressed if AVB gets the sack. Levy prefers the continental model. The real planning is done by a director of football. We now have that in place in Baldini. An intelligent and smooth operator.

The squad assembled will have had AVB's input, but it is also very versatile and I don't think any manager would have any complaints in being handed it. I also think there are some of the best academy products coming through that we've had in years, like Townsend and Carroll. I personally think Carroll is the missing piece in the jigsaw squad-wise, apart from a left-back. Carroll is that potential midfield metranome that we clearly miss.

There is a lot of quality and potential to work with, but AVB really isn't getting the best out of them and is floundering. A new manager can be brought in to work with the existing squad under Baldini who will be controlling transfers. I think a new manager could get this team playing a lot better, quickly and Baldini can continue to fill the gaps in the squad, with a new left-back and more support upfront.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

Look as well, I don't think people should get too depressed if AVB gets the sack. Levy prefers the continental model. The real planning is done by a director of football. We now have that in place in Baldini. An intelligent and smooth operator.

The squad assembled will have had AVB's input, but it is also very versatile and I don't think any manager would have any complaints in being handed it. I also think there are some of the best academy products coming through that we've had in years, like Townsend and Carroll. I personally think Carroll is the missing piece in the jigsaw squad-wise, apart from a left-back. Carroll is that potential midfield metranome that we clearly miss.

There is a lot of quality and potential to work with, but AVB really isn't getting the best out of them and is floundering. A new manager can be brought in to work with the existing squad under Baldini who will be controlling transfers. I think a new manager could get this team playing a lot better, quickly and Baldini can continue to fill the gaps in the squad, with a new left-back and more support upfront.

I think if a new man comes in, form will improve. It will likely have done anyway, but a new man will likely just play the players how they feel comfortable while he gets his feet under the table and we will see a nice bounce from that.

But there will come a point where the new man tries to establish a system and a style for the long term and there will be teething problems during that process. What do we do then? Let this guy go at the first sign of trouble because our expectations aren't being met.

The expectations at this club are ridiculous, we expect title challenges and regular CL participation but we never keep anyone around long enough to establish anything to get us there. We get a new man in, we shoot for the stars and in that process we will crash and burn a few times and he will be let go. And we will start again. So boring. If the wheels have started turning to remove AVB I will have lost a lot of respect for the club.

 

[Rorschach]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

He still says the player should be ashamed even is he says 'we'. Bad choice of words even in the full quote. And after ****ging off the crowd too.

It's the correct choice of words if he meant it as 'the royal we', which is how I took it and most people would. He is stating rather clearly to me that everyone was culpable.

To sack him now after 12 games would really make a joke of the whole exercise. I believe in giving a man a second chance and as he has previously shown, he can learn from his mistakes. He is a very young man in terms of managerial experience and will get some things wrong. Let's see if he is man enough to alter his footballing ideology before we write him off so quickly. A few decent results and the Emirates Marketing Project game will be a footnote in the records books. We may be looking back on that match as a turning point for the better.

As for the media articles, I pay them no mind. They get paid to sell papers and twist things to sensationalise the story. There may be a kernel of truth in there somewhere but I doubt it is as far gone as they describe.

 

[Kingdawson]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

I think if a new man comes in, form will improve. It will likely have done anyway, but a new man will likely just play the players how they feel comfortable while he gets his feet under the table and we will see a nice bounce from that.

But there will come a point where the new man tries to establish a system and a style for the long term and there will be teething problems during that process. What do we do then? Let this guy go at the first sign of trouble because our expectations aren't being met.

The expectations at this club are ridiculous, we expect title challenges and regular CL participation but we never keep anyone around long enough to establish anything to get us there. We get a new man in, we shoot for the stars and in that process we will crash and burn a few times and he will be let go. And we will start again. So boring. If the wheels have started turning to remove AVB I will have lost a lot of respect for the club.

I want to see us play good football and actually look threatening. Before the season i said i would be happy with top 6 and i don't think that's a particularly unrealistic expectation (in fact i think i'm being rather kind) but i do not accept the standard of football currently on show and will never accept it. I do not think our manager is getting the best out of his squad (not even close) and i haven't seen an improvement in any player (bar Bale) that has worked under him which is rather frightening. Once we start looking threatening and actually look decent at home i will lay off him on here.

 

[Modric THFC]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

I think if a new man comes in, form will improve. It will likely have done anyway, but a new man will likely just play the players how they feel comfortable while he gets his feet under the table and we will see a nice bounce from that.

But there will come a point where the new man tries to establish a system and a style for the long term and there will be teething problems during that process. What do we do then? Let this guy go at the first sign of trouble because our expectations aren't being met.

The expectations at this club are ridiculous, we expect title challenges and regular CL participation but we never keep anyone around long enough to establish anything to get us there. We get a new man in, we shoot for the stars and in that process we will crash and burn a few times and he will be let go. And we will start again. So boring. If the wheels have started turning to remove AVB I will have lost a lot of respect for the club.

He's played the exact same system and style since he first arrived at the club and its horrible. 4231, high line, two rugby players in the middle of the pitch, win the ball, hold on to it at all costs, no risky passes and hope one of the front 4 miracles the ball in through some piece of sorcery. This is how he wants us to play.
If he was managing Emirates Marketing Project on Sunday he would have made them sit back and pass the ball sideways around their own half for 89:45 minutes after they went a goal up.
You say he has a masterplan as if you have access to his Powerpoint presentations.
I'm sure Levy knows if he had a plan or not.

There's only so many years we can sit through central midfield duos comprised of Sandro, Livermore, Dembele, Parker, Paulinho and Capoue. He only ever stuck Huddlestone or Carroll in when he was completely stuck. Wheelchair and Fabregas got games at 18 at Arsenal. Us? We ignore Carroll, play 6 guys ahead of him who cant pass. Building for the future my ****.

We cant write of the next 3 years just because its the right thing to do.
And Redknapp was here for 4 years. That was a decent crack of the whip.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

I want to see us play good football and actually look threatening. Before the season i said i would be happy with top 6 and i don't think that's a particularly unrealistic expectation (in fact i think i'm being rather kind) but i do not accept the standard of football currently on show and will never accept it. I do not think our manager is getting the best out of his squad (not even close) and i haven't seen an improvement in any player (bar Bale) that has worked under him which is rather frightening. Once we start looking threatening and actually look decent at home i will lay off him on here.

I knew I was going to get the retort about style of play as I made my comment. Obviously my response is that to get to the style we want for the long term we may have to go through some pain first, and to really meet the long term expectations that's what we need to do...anyway there's a good chance it doesn't matter now.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

He's played the exact same system and style since he first arrived at the club and its horrible. 4231, high line, two rugby players in the middle of the pitch, win the ball, hold on to it at all costs, no risky passes and hope one of the front 4 miracles the ball in through some piece of sorcery. This is how he wants us to play.
If he was managing Emirates Marketing Project on Sunday he would have made them sit back and pass the ball sideways around their own half for 89:45 minutes after they went a goal up.
You say he has a masterplan as if you have access to his Powerpoint presentations.
I'm sure Levy knows if he had a plan or not.

There's only so many years we can sit through central midfield duos comprised of Sandro, Livermore, Dembele, Parker, Paulinho and Capoue. He only ever stuck Huddlestone or Carroll in when he was completely stuck. Wheelchair and Fabregas got games at 18 at Arsenal. Us? We ignore Carroll, play 6 guys ahead of him who cant pass. Building for the future my ****.

We cant write of the next 3 years just because its the right thing to do.
And Redknapp was here for 4 years. That was a decent crack of the whip.

I just don't agree this is his ultimate goal but we'll be going round in circles if I explained again why.

 

[Modric THFC]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

I just don't agree this is his ultimate goal but we'll be going round in circles if I explained again why.

Yes he wants to build a system that's all to do with conserving energy for big games and attacking for only 20 percent of game or something.
That might have worked in Portugal, where only 5 clubs have ever won the league, and you'd still beat smaller team if your players took it in turns to go off for smoke breaks.
But in the Premier League where anyone can beat anyone, you can't disrespect teams and get away with it. You cant designate 20 minutes at the end of the game as when we're gonna score and not come away with terrible boring performances and no goals.

 

[Jurgen the German]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

It all depends on what happens next. Even if Chelsea didn't get the right guy in straight away, they still won the CL. It's not the head coach that's building a dynasty, it's the club. We must find someone who can work with the squad we have, no ripping up of plans or transition season while a new squad is assembled.

Every sacking since 2004 has come after long(ish) periods of decline, to the point where a change had to be made. I do think the club is in a much better shape now and only minor adjustments would be needed.

Really don't think Chelsea is a good example, nor should it be a club we should strive to be like. They have an infinitely bigger budget than us, buy players just so no one else can have them and then send them out on loan which means almost anyone could/should succeed there. We are not Chelsea, so therefore the manager is more important to our club than it is to those ****s.

Also don't agree the club is in a much better shape. Results dictate that as far as I'm concerned. All very well having a talented squad but if you don't have the right man to lead that squad then it's almost worthless. I wouldn't say Jol or Arry had long periods of decline, we did go backwards at times absolutely, but we're talking periods of a few months rather than years.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

Yes he wants to build a system that's all to do with conserving energy for big games and attacking for only 20 percent of game or something.
That might have worked in Portugal, where only 5 clubs have ever won the league, and you'd still beat smaller team if your players took it in turns to go off for smoke breaks.
But in the Premier League where anyone can beat anyone, you can't disrespect teams and get away with it. You cant designate 20 minutes at the end of the game as when we're gonna score and not come away with terrible boring performances and no goals.

I'm gonna bring up Norwich again, and Cardiff, and Villa away in the cup, just as examples that show we have attacked well in smaller games. It isn't all about conserving energy. We played well in those games and attacked them. I think the idea was to get to that level on a consistent basis.

 

[Jordinho]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

Really don't think Chelsea is a good example, nor should it be a club we should strive to be like. They have an infinitely bigger budget than us, buy players just so no one else can have them and then send them out on loan which means almost anyone could/should succeed there. We are not Chelsea, so therefore the manager is more important to our club than it is to those ****s.

Also don't agree the club is in a much better shape. Results dictate that as far as I'm concerned. All very well having a talented squad but if you don't have the right man to lead that squad then it's almost worthless. I wouldn't say Jol or Arry had long periods of decline, we did go backwards at times absolutely, but we're talking periods of a few months rather than years.

I think that what Levy is trying to put in place is a structure where we aren't dependant on one person and a change can be relatively smooth without requiring massive outlays.

We are in a good position in that regard. The players aren't performing to a level they're clearly capable of, so the main issue is: What is causing it and how do we best solve it?

I'm not going to delve deeper into Redknapp other than say we were stagnating and he doesn't have the coaching ability to do something about it. It would have taken a huge spend, but we'd still not be any better off in a season or two. His main problem, and Jol's, is that they don't use their squads and tend to alienate players. With Jol we had been in decline for some time. Leaking goals, conceding late and nothing to suggest he knew how to fix it.

 

[Gazza Dazzla]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

Looking at it purely on a coincidental / fate level, wasn't a very similar article written before we played Utd away last season, at a very similar time of year? We went on a great run after that, here's hoping for the same!

 

[ringo]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

He's played the exact same system and style since he first arrived at the club and its horrible. 4231, high line, two rugby players in the middle of the pitch, win the ball, hold on to it at all costs, no risky passes and hope one of the front 4 miracles the ball in through some piece of sorcery. This is how he wants us to play.
If he was managing Emirates Marketing Project on Sunday he would have made them sit back and pass the ball sideways around their own half for 89:45 minutes after they went a goal up.
You say he has a masterplan as if you have access to his Powerpoint presentations.
I'm sure Levy knows if he had a plan or not.

There's only so many years we can sit through central midfield duos comprised of Sandro, Livermore, Dembele, Parker, Paulinho and Capoue. He only ever stuck Huddlestone or Carroll in when he was completely stuck. Wheelchair and Fabregas got games at 18 at Arsenal. Us? We ignore Carroll, play 6 guys ahead of him who cant pass. Building for the future my ****.

We cant write of the next 3 years just because its the right thing to do.
And Redknapp was here for 4 years. That was a decent crack of the whip.

That's so true. Getting rid of Huddlestone was so shortsighted. So far this season he has been Hull's most creative player AND intercepted the ball the most. when AVB sells Hudd, doesn't give Carroll an opportunity to stake a claim in the first team, and refuses to play Adebayor until the end of November, I question his judgement of players.

Anyone who has been to WHL, even if only occasionally over the past few years, can't fail to notice the difference in the way we play under AVB -and not in a good way. I take my young (as in U12) son occasionally- he noticed the difference in style between Harry and AVB's teams. And while I know things can change, it's not easy convincing a young kid who has sat through several lots of 90 minutes of backwards and sideways passing that it really will be different at some unspecified point in the future.. So it can't be doing much for our younger fanbase.

And anyway I don't things will change much. I don't think it is possible to implement a really effective 4-2-3-1 with a combination of the existing squad and AVB's ideas and approach. Something has to change. Players or manager's tactics. Having said that we may only be a couple of different players, and a change in style/tactics away from having a very competitive team

 

[Daisuk]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

He's played the exact same system and style since he first arrived at the club and its horrible. 4231, high line, two rugby players in the middle of the pitch, win the ball, hold on to it at all costs, no risky passes and hope one of the front 4 miracles the ball in through some piece of sorcery. This is how he wants us to play.
If he was managing Emirates Marketing Project on Sunday he would have made them sit back and pass the ball sideways around their own half for 89:45 minutes after they went a goal up.
You say he has a masterplan as if you have access to his Powerpoint presentations.
I'm sure Levy knows if he had a plan or not.

There's only so many years we can sit through central midfield duos comprised of Sandro, Livermore, Dembele, Parker, Paulinho and Capoue. He only ever stuck Huddlestone or Carroll in when he was completely stuck. Wheelchair and Fabregas got games at 18 at Arsenal. Us? We ignore Carroll, play 6 guys ahead of him who cant pass. Building for the future my ****.

We cant write of the next 3 years just because its the right thing to do.
And Redknapp was here for 4 years. That was a decent crack of the whip.

Well put! =D>

 

[Jurgen the German]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

I think that what Levy is trying to put in place is a structure where we aren't dependant on one person and a change can be relatively smooth without requiring massive outlays.

We are in a good position in that regard. The players aren't performing to a level they're clearly capable of, so the main issue is: What is causing it and how do we best solve it?

I'm not going to delve deeper into Redknapp other than say we were stagnating and he doesn't have the coaching ability to do something about it. It would have taken a huge spend, but we'd still not be any better off in a season or two. His main problem, and Jol's, is that they don't use their squads and tend to alienate players. With Jol we had been in decline for some time. Leaking goals, conceding late and nothing to suggest he knew how to fix it.

I would say the squad we have at the moment is one of the best we've had in the premier league era so anything lower than 5th this season would be regressing.

 

[NWND]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

I'm gonna bring up Norwich again, and Cardiff, and Villa away in the cup, just as examples that show we have attacked well in smaller games. It isn't all about conserving energy. We played well in those games and attacked them. I think the idea was to get to that level on a consistent basis.

Why do you keep bringing up these games? We didn't attack well, we attacked adequately. Norwich were so poor in that game, and offered nothing. Ditto Cardiff. A better team would have smashed them all over the park and scored a hat-full.

Villa away in the cup? We have a great squad, where we can field two XIs that would probably or should probably finish top half. Villa on the other hand, have to play their kids in their first XI, let alone second XI, so their second XI got dingdonged. It was a mis-match.

Its fine playing well and creating chances when you are given loads of space, but many teams like Liverpool, Arsenal, Chelsea, City, Everton and well every club bar 2 in the dvision manage to make a better fist of creating chances and killing teams off when the opposition actually turn up and attempt to deny them space.

The fact that you keep pointing to us beating a useless Norwich team that didn't look like it wanted to be there 2-0 in what i'd describe as an "adequate" performance, both in terms of the result and the style of play, as some kind of example of why we should stick with AVB as its all going to be ok, well, I just don't understand it!