Andre Villas-Boas - Head Coach

[90291Spur]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

Ergo ‏@SniersMoregut 15h
Mou has made worst start ever in abramovich era. Silence from the media. Avb had made best ever pl start for spurs & is clinging onto job

And their worst start to a season is still better than our best.

 

[Modric THFC]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

And their worst start to a season is still better than our best.

No it isnt.
Our best 'start' to a premier league season is the stat taken from 5 games into the season when we have won 4 and drawn 1. That was our best start. We've since lost W2 D2 L3.
Chelsea worst start to an abramovich season is the stat taken 12 games games into the season!!

They're not comparable.

 

[90291Spur]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

No it isnt.
Our best 'start' to a premier league season is the stat taken from 5 games into the season when we have won 4 and drawn 1. That was our best start. We've since lost W2 D2 L3.
Chelsea worst start to an abramovich season is the stat taken 12 games games into the season!!

They're not comparable.

Thanks. I sit corrected.

 

[thfcsteff]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

Just for the sake of balance and to ease THFCSteff's nerves, here's a counter-balance to some of the recent negative press-stories.

Yes, it's still negative and critical of AVB, but it says that the board are willing to give him more time before pulling the trigger:

http://www.standard.co.uk/sport/foo...t-tottenham-boss-is-safe-for-now-8966728.html

Oh, my nerves are fine mate. At this point it's really up to AVB to survive...I think the total lack of comment from within the club to the speculation is interesting...

 

[Modric THFC]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

We're 2 points better off against the same opponents and 3 points compared to this stage last season, but we're now 8 points behind 2011/12. We did however start to lose momentum from game 14 that season and the less said about how it finished, the better.

Chelsea are 2 points down on the same opponents and on the same number of points they had at this stage last season. Their win at the weekend put them two points ahead of 2011/12.

******** we are. Only if you manipulate the stats.

Crystal Palace (a) 2013/14 w, 2012/13 didnt play
Swansea (h) 2013/14 w, 2012/13 w
Arsenal (a) 2013/14 l, 2012/13 l
Norwich (h) 2013/14 w, 2012/13 d +2
Cardiff (a) 2013/14 w, 2012/13 didnt play
Chelsea (h) 2013/14 d, 2012/13 l +1
West Ham (h) 2013/14 l, 2012/13 w -3
Aston Villa (a) 2013/14 w, 2012/13 w
Hull City (h) 2013/14 w, 2012/13 didnt play
Everton (a) 2013/14 d, 2012/13 l +1
Saudi Sportswashing Machine (h) 2013/14 l, 2012/13 w -3
Emirates Marketing Project (a) 2013/14 l, 2012/13 l

That 2 points worse off against the same opponents.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

To be pedantic, the 'royal we' is when a singular person i.e the Queen, is talking about herself. The fact is that in this era of a voracious media AVB gave them something to get their teeth into. And also ran the risk of the very delicate egos in the dressing room feeling as if he were blaming them. That stuff should be done behind closed doors. Now someone like Whinger can call his team 'immature' multiple times and get away with it. AVB hopefully will mature himself from this situation and be more careful with his words.

I can't have that - he can't be getting told he needs to watch his words as if he's some child because he said 'we' should be ashamed. He is communicating as he always does, that we win together and we lose together, we succeed together and we fail together. He made no mistake there.

In fact I'd actually say he is one of the most skilled at protecting players. He gets a lot of criticism from fans for praising performances publicly that weren't great - during this bedding in period that is precisely what he is doing, protecting them. His comment about the fans was something the players wanted him to say and agreed with.

He is very good at being the mouthpiece for the club and staying on message, with the exception being the Lloris incident.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

Oh, my nerves are fine mate. At this point it's really up to AVB to survive...I think the total lack of comment from within the club to the speculation is interesting...

Sounds like you've given up on him mate, I'm surprised. His quotes tonight suggest the board haven't lost their **** and while understandably annoyed at an embarrassing result, simply want improvement in the future.

I think there's probably a few people on the board thinking 'this guy talks a good game but isn't delivering right now', but they are probably of the Sugar calibre in terms of understanding modern football, and I don't think Levy pays them much mind. He's much more likely to listen to Baldini who has wanted to work with AVB for years - I don't reckon he is going to throw in the towel just yet.

 

[90291Spur]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

I can't have that - he can't be getting told he needs to watch his words as if he's some child because he said 'we' should be ashamed. He is communicating as he always does, that we win together and we lose together, we succeed together and we fail together. He made no mistake there.

In fact I'd actually say he is one of the most skilled at protecting players. He gets a lot of criticism from fans for praising performances publicly that weren't great - during this bedding in period that is precisely what he is doing, protecting them. His comment about the fans was something the players wanted him to say and agreed with.

He is very good at being the mouthpiece for the club and staying on message, with the exception being the Lloris incident.

My point is that regardless of what 'should be' vertain things 'are'. And what he has said has been twisted and used against him. So he does need to wise up and not throw chum into a shark-infested water. Do you also back him ****ging off the crowd at White Hart Lane? I am sure the players feel a lot of things, many of which should not be communicated to the fans.

AVB is in a position where he has a huge target on his back and is not helping himself with some of his statements.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

My point is that regardless of what 'should be' vertain things 'are'. And what he has said has been twisted and used against him. So he does need to wise up and not throw chum into a shark-infested water. Do you also back him ****ging off the crowd at White Hart Lane? I am sure the players feel a lot of things, many of which should not be communicated to the fans.

AVB is in a position where he has a huge target on his back and is not helping himself with some of his statements.

If that's the case he better never say anything, if that tiny thing can be construed as a slight at the players and we all need to worry about how the papers will twist it.

They will twist anything. Tonight he has said 'I'm immune from criticism' to convey he doesn't care about media bull**** anymore, but the Mail have made it look like he is saying he is beyond reproach from anybody, which he clearly didn't. They will twist anything. If we start worrying about that we may as well demand our managers never speak to us. It won't be worth the hassle.

 

[Yermiyahu]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

If that's the case he better never say anything, if that tiny thing can be construed as a slight at the players and we all need to worry about how the papers will twist it.

They will twist anything. Tonight he has said 'I'm immune from criticism' to convey he doesn't care about media bull**** anymore, but the Mail have made it look like he is saying he is beyond reproach from anybody, which he clearly didn't. They will twist anything. If we start worrying about that we may as well demand our managers never speak to us. It won't be worth the hassle.

He needs to buy a range rover and start giving press conferences at the training ground gate or outside his house with the driver side window down. Well it worked for the previous incumbent.

 

[SteveAWOL]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

I'd be interested knowing our goals for and against at the equivalent point last season. Anyone? Statto?

Opening 12 fixtures over past 5 seasons...

13/14	12/13	11/12	10/11	09/10
1-0 Palace (a)	1-2 Saudi Sportswashing Machine (a)	0-3 Man Utd (a)	0-0 Emirates Marketing Project (h)	2-1 Liverpool (h)
1-0 Swansea (h)	1-1 WBA (h)	1-5 Emirates Marketing Project (h)	2-1 Stoke City (a)	5-1 Hull (a)
0-1 ARSEnal (a)	1-1 Norwich (h)	2-0 Wolves (a)	0-1 Wigan (h)	2-1 West Ham (a)
2-0 Norwich (h)	3-1 Reading (a)	4-0 Liverpool (h)	1-1 WBA (a)	2-1 Birmingham (h)
1-0 Cardiff (a)	2-1 QPR (h)	2-1 Wigan (a)	3-1 Wolves (h)	1-3 Man Utd (h)
1-1 Chelsea (h)	3-2 Man Utd (a)	2-1 ARSEnal (h)	0-1 West Ham (a)	0-3 Chelsea (a)
0-3 West Ham (h)	2-0 Villa (h)	2-2 Saudi Sportswashing Machine (a)	2-1 Villa (h)	5-0 Burnley (h)
2-0 Villa (a)	2-4 Chelsea (h)	2-1 Blackburn (a)	2-1 Fulham (a)	2-2 Bolton (a)
1-0 Hull (h)	2-1 Southampton	3-1 QPR (h)	1-1 Everton (h)	2-1 Portsmouth (a)
0-0 Everton (a)	0-1 Wigan (h)	3-1 Fulham (a)	0-2 Man Utd (a)	0-1 Stoke (h)
0-1 Saudi Sportswashing Machine (h)	1-2 Emirates Marketing Project (a)	2-0 Villa (h)	2-4 Bolton (a)	0-3 ARSEnal (a)
0-6 Emirates Marketing Project (a)	2-5 ARSEnal (a)	3-1 WBA (a)	1-1 Sunderland (h)	2-0 Sunderland (h)
20pts (F9 | A12)	18pts (F20 | A21)	28pts (F26 | A16)	16pts (F14 | A15)	22pts (F23 | A17)

 

[90291Spur]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

[/B]

He needs to buy a range rover and start giving press conferences at the training ground gate or outside his house with the driver side window down. Well it worked for the previous incumbent.

He can say 'triffic', 'top, top player' and 'you'd 'ave 'im in yer side' in six different languages.

 

[shaney]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

The vibe Im getting from most AVB supporters on this thread, seems to be implying that if he gets sacked and a new manager comes in and improves the football and the results, then AVB is STILL blameless, as he would have improved us eventually anyway and he simply wasnt given enough time.

Also it seems to be that they are writing off the new manager already, without knowing who that might be or what success he may bring us. Its as if they are saying that AVB is our only chance of success, even though he has yet to bring us any.

To predict doom and gloom if we sack him is beyond baffling. It will be doom and gloom if we dont.

 

[NWND]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

He can say 'triffic', 'top, top player' and 'you'd 'ave 'im in yer side' in six different languages.

Levy might have bought Moutinho if AVB had sold him as a "top lad"

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

The vibe Im getting from most AVB supporters on this thread, seems to be implying that if he gets sacked and a new manager comes in and improves the football and the results, then AVB is STILL blameless, as he would have improved us eventually anyway and he simply wasnt given enough time.

Also it seems to be that they are writing off the new manager already, without knowing who that might be or what success he may bring us. Its as if they are saying that AVB is our only chance of success, even though he has yet to bring us any.

To predict doom and gloom if we sack him is beyond baffling. It will be doom and gloom if we dont.

I predict we would improve anyway, with or without AVB. Read 'The Numbers Game' by Chris Anderson. Compared with a control group of clubs that didn't sack their manager, clubs that did over a period of 15/20 years performed no better. It's called regression to the mean. There's always good form and bad form and it will even out most of the time.

What does blameless mean? Is he to blame for how the football looks at the moment? Absolutely. It is all his 'fault'. But is he integrating 7 new foreign signings into the squad? Yes. Are we much worse off than last season? No. Is it possible that the football can improve? Pretty much. Of course he is to blame for how it looks right now, but football isn't a happy land where managers come in and everything is fine for the entirety of their reign. There will always be tough times. No manager is different in that regard.

I think if we get a new guy, he will probably do well. I just can't handle yet another sacking and yet another new era, yet another transitional period etc etc. It will take me a few months to care as much again. Personally I think if we have ambitions to get above our station, we need to stick with something through good times and bad. As long as board and players are on board and know the transition will be tough at first, then I say we keep going.

 

[NWND]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

The vibe Im getting from most AVB supporters on this thread, seems to be implying that if he gets sacked and a new manager comes in and improves the football and the results, then AVB is STILL blameless, as he would have improved us eventually anyway and he simply wasnt given enough time.

Also it seems to be that they are writing off the new manager already, without knowing who that might be or what success he may bring us. Its as if they are saying that AVB is our only chance of success, even though he has yet to bring us any.

To predict doom and gloom if we sack him is beyond baffling. It will be doom and gloom if we dont.

I agree! I think the fact that people like AVB and his intelligence and ideas, clouds their judgement. They refuse to see the evidence in front of their eyes and prefer to cling to quotes in books by or about AVB and the hope that things will get better.

Fact is even if we had to accept that we had to step backwards to move forwards and see some bedding in time, 6-0???? A 6-0 defeat with a full compliment of players when we have a team of our quality? It's our worst defeat since I was still in school FFS!

3-0 against West Ham?

9 goals scored all season! NINE! The football is slow, ineffective and boring, the defence looks a shambles whenever it's attacked and players are being played out of position.

Some of the team selections are right out of a comedy sketch: Lamela, struggling for form, has the game of his Spurs career against Sheriff, so it was an ideal chance for him to give him a game versus Saudi Sportswashing Machine. He doesn't make it off the bench, but then gets his first PL start away in one of our toughest fixtures of the season out of position, What the actual f@@@????? Are you f@@@ing departed AVB ? Are you trying to lose yourself a job?

This season is turning into an incredible f@@@-up by AVB, I don't see why others are refusing to see the complete carnage, lack of consistency of decision making, dithering, indecision, lack of planning, u-turns (hello Ade), that are developing into all-out catastrophe!

Also, who cares what the press says, you'd have to be very naive to think Levy, Baldini and Lewis haven't started discussing potential successors to AVB already. They'd frankly be letting the club down if they hadn't!

 

[NWND]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

I predict we would improve anyway, with or without AVB. Read 'The Numbers Game' by Chris Anderson. Compared with a control group of clubs that didn't sack their manager, clubs that did over a period of 15/20 years performed no better. It's called regression to the mean. There's always good form and bad form and it will even out most of the time.

What does blameless mean? Is he to blame for how the football looks at the moment? Absolutely. It is all his 'fault'. But is he integrating 7 new foreign signings into the squad? Yes. Are we much worse off than last season? No. Is it possible that the football can improve? Pretty much. Of course he is to blame for how it looks right now, but football isn't a happy land where managers come in and everything is fine for the entirety of their reign. There will always be tough times. No manager is different in that regard.

I think if we get a new guy, he will probably do well. I just can't handle yet another sacking and yet another new era, yet another transitional period etc etc. It will take me a few months to care as much again. Personally I think if we have ambitions to get above our station, we need to stick with something through good times and bad. As long as board and players are on board and know the transition will be tough at first, then I say we keep going.

But would you just keep wading into s@@@? You know why the stat in that book is a load of balls? It's because good managers don't get sacked and their clubs do alright, you only get sacked if you're crap but then a new manager comes in and arrests the slide therefore clubs that don't sack their managers are the clubs that didn't need to and the ones that did we're the ones that did need to. If anything the fact that both clubs end up in the same position proves the sacking clubs were probably right to pull the trigger - another example of stats over common sense and human reasoning!

Next!

 

[Trotter]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

Only have to go back 2 seasons to show best start to season stat to be rubbish.

Now :- Played 12 Won 6 Draw 2 Lost 4 For 9 Against 12 GD -3 Pts 20. Ninth in League
2 years ago :- Played 12 Won 9 Draw 1 Lost 2 For 26 Against 16 GD +10 Pts 28. Second in League

That was also the season we had to play Krancjar and Livermore in Centre mid first 2 games, as Modric was on strike, and we hadn't purchased a midfielder (gor Parker end Aug)

 

[milo]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

I predict we would improve anyway, with or without AVB. Read 'The Numbers Game' by Chris Anderson. Compared with a control group of clubs that didn't sack their manager, clubs that did over a period of 15/20 years performed no better. It's called regression to the mean. There's always good form and bad form and it will even out most of the time.

What does blameless mean? Is he to blame for how the football looks at the moment? Absolutely. It is all his 'fault'. But is he integrating 7 new foreign signings into the squad? Yes. Are we much worse off than last season? No. Is it possible that the football can improve? Pretty much. Of course he is to blame for how it looks right now, but football isn't a happy land where managers come in and everything is fine for the entirety of their reign. There will always be tough times. No manager is different in that regard.

I think if we get a new guy, he will probably do well. I just can't handle yet another sacking and yet another new era, yet another transitional period etc etc. It will take me a few months to care as much again. Personally I think if we have ambitions to get above our station, we need to stick with something through good times and bad. As long as board and players are on board and know the transition will be tough at first, then I say we keep going.

Pretty much that.

People should read up on regression to mean or "the curse of Sports Illustrated" for people who are more comfortable with sports than statistics. Even if you still think AVB is a **** manager at the end of it, it will improve your life.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

I agree! I think the fact that people like AVB and his intelligence and ideas, clouds their judgement. They refuse to see the evidence in front of their eyes and prefer to cling to quotes in books by or about AVB and the hope that things will get better.

Fact is even if we had to accept that we had to step backwards to move forwards and see some bedding in time, 6-0???? A 6-0 defeat with a full compliment of players when we have a team of our quality? It's our worst defeat since I was still in school FFS!

3-0 against West Ham?

9 goals scored all season! NINE! The football is slow, ineffective and boring, the defence looks a shambles whenever it's attacked and players are being played out of position.

Some of the team selections are right out of a comedy sketch: Lamela, struggling for form, has the game of his Spurs career against Sheriff, so it was an ideal chance for him to give him a game versus Saudi Sportswashing Machine. He doesn't make it off the bench, but then gets his first PL start away in one of our toughest fixtures of the season out of position, What the actual f@@@????? Are you f@@@ing departed AVB ? Are you trying to lose yourself a job?

This season is turning into an incredible f@@@-up by AVB, I don't see why others are refusing to see the complete carnage, lack of consistency of decision making, dithering, indecision, lack of planning, u-turns (hello Ade), that are developing into all-out catastrophe!

Also, who cares what the press says, you'd have to be very naive to think Levy, Baldini and Lewis haven't started discussing potential successors to AVB already. They'd frankly be letting the club down if they hadn't!

Is the Lamela thing really such an issue as you are making out? Really? I mean I could just as easy argue it the other way, but I can't be arsed.

As for the rest, we have been there 68 pages ago. You're never going to acknowledge there is the potential for performances to improve. You think this is it, this is what AVB wants and this the limit. No one, probably not even AVB coming out and addressing your concerns directly, is going to convince you otherwise.

BTW, you always say the defence looks a shambles when attacked, and always say we are vulnerable to a ball over the top. Well of course, we play so the opposition can do only that. If we had a different defensive shape, we would be vulnerable to something else. Lloris sweeps it up most of the time. That's the point. Before the freak game on Sunday we had a good defensive record. If you want to count all the nearly chances that the opposition could have scored in another universe then it's only fair I count the chances we have missed, and suddenly our goals column looks a lot more entertaining. Hooray for AVB!