Andre Villas-Boas - Head Coach

[ALtottenham_hotspur]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

I think that what Levy is trying to put in place is a structure where we aren't dependant on one person and a change can be relatively smooth without requiring massive outlays.

We are in a good position in that regard. The players aren't performing to a level they're clearly capable of, so the main issue is: What is causing it and how do we best solve it?

I'm not going to delve deeper into Redknapp other than say we were stagnating and he doesn't have the coaching ability to do something about it. It would have taken a huge spend, but we'd still not be any better off in a season or two. His main problem, and Jol's, is that they don't use their squads and tend to alienate players. With Jol we had been in decline for some time. Leaking goals, conceding late and nothing to suggest he knew how to fix it.

As much as I love the big guy its the same problem with Fulham now

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

Why do you keep bringing up these games? We didn't attack well, we attacked adequately. Norwich were so poor in that game, and offered nothing. Ditto Cardiff. A better team would have smashed them all over the park and scored a hat-full.

Villa away in the cup? We have a great squad, where we can field two XIs that would probably or should probably finish top half. Villa on the other hand, have to play their kids in their first XI, let alone second XI, so their second XI got dingdonged. It was a mis-match.

Its fine playing well and creating chances when you are given loads of space, but many teams like Liverpool, Arsenal, Chelsea, City, Everton and well every club bar 2 in the dvision manage to make a better fist of creating chances and killing teams off when the opposition actually turn up and attempt to deny them space.

The fact that you keep pointing to us beating a useless Norwich team that didn't look like it wanted to be there 2-0 in what i'd describe as an "adequate" performance, both in terms of the result and the style of play, as some kind of example of why we should stick with AVB as its all going to be ok, well, I just don't understand it!

It's an argument about style, not quality. We either play a boring, rigid style, or we don't. In those games I gave, we played good football. Norwich are a defensive team. Cardiff beat Emirates Marketing Project.

I've said a million f'n times in this thread that I don't consider them to be amazing performances. I'm saying we clearly played good football, and that's what I believe AVB would want to get us there consistently.

 

[NWND]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

Just for the sake of balance and to ease THFCSteff's nerves, here's a counter-balance to some of the recent negative press-stories.

Yes, it's still negative and critical of AVB, but it says that the board are willing to give him more time before pulling the trigger:

http://www.standard.co.uk/sport/foo...t-tottenham-boss-is-safe-for-now-8966728.html

 

[ALtottenham_hotspur]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

Why do you keep bringing up these games? We didn't attack well, we attacked adequately. Norwich were so poor in that game, and offered nothing. Ditto Cardiff. A better team would have smashed them all over the park and scored a hat-full.

Villa away in the cup? We have a great squad, where we can field two XIs that would probably or should probably finish top half. Villa on the other hand, have to play their kids in their first XI, let alone second XI, so their second XI got dingdonged. It was a mis-match.

Its fine playing well and creating chances when you are given loads of space, but many teams like Liverpool, Arsenal, Chelsea, City, Everton and well every club bar 2 in the dvision manage to make a better fist of creating chances and killing teams off when the opposition actually turn up and attempt to deny them space.

The fact that you keep pointing to us beating a useless Norwich team that didn't look like it wanted to be there 2-0 in what i'd describe as an "adequate" performance, both in terms of the result and the style of play, as some kind of example of why we should stick with AVB as its all going to be ok, well, I just don't understand it!

To back up NWND point, look at the below results so far this season for Norwich against big teams;

Emirates Marketing Project 7-0 Norwich
Man Utd 4-0 Norwich
Arsenal 4-1 Norwich
Norwich 1-3 Chelsea
Tottenham 2-0 Norwich

Three or more goals against the top 4 other than us.

 

[NWND]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

It's an argument about style, not quality. We either play a boring, rigid style, or we don't. In those games I gave, we played good football. Norwich are a defensive team. Cardiff beat Emirates Marketing Project.

I've said a million f'n times in this thread that I don't consider them to be amazing performances. I'm saying we clearly played good football, and that's what I believe AVB would want to get us there consistently.

But we didn't play that good football. Any pro of the level we have worth his salt will be able to play some nice passes and look good when the other team just stand off and watch them.

Case in point, Eriksen. Norwich just let him move wherever he wanted and do whatever he wanted.

West Ham on the other hand decided to close him down whenever he had the ball and starve his supply.

What I am saying is that we need to be better at recycling the ball and moving it quickly and with purpose against teams that actually turn up and attempt to get stuck in and have a go at us. The problem is not against teams that have no interest in beating us, but just turn up expecting to be turned over and roll over for us like Norwich did.

Did you honestly watch Norwich in that game and not think "blimey these lot are going to get a few tonkings this season?" They're not defensive, or at least, they do sit back, but they're not defensively sound!

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

But we didn't play that good football. Any pro of the level we have worth his salt will be able to play some nice passes and look good when the other team just stand off and watch them.

Case in point, Eriksen. Norwich just let him move wherever he wanted and do whatever he wanted.

West Ham on the other hand decided to close him down whenever he had the ball and starve his supply.

What I am saying is that we need to be better at recycling the ball and moving it quickly and with purpose against teams that actually turn up and attempt to get stuck in and have a go at us. The problem is not against teams that have no interest in beating us, but just turn up expecting to be turned over and roll over for us like Norwich did.

Did you honestly watch Norwich in that game and not think "blimey these lot are going to get a few tonkings this season?" They're not defensive, or at least, they do sit back, but they're not defensively sound!

Again, it's an argument about style. We have played crap teams and played crap football. Against Norwich, we played good football. They are a defensive team. Hughton gets all hell from their fans for being too cautious. He usually drills them well however. What I am certain of is that they did not turn up to WHL to be open against us. Against Norwich, we played good football.

 

[Modric THFC]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

Again, it's an argument about style. We have played crap teams and played crap football. Against Norwich, we played good football. They are a defensive team. Hughton gets all hell from their fans for being too cautious. He usually drills them well however. What I am certain of is that they did not turn up to WHL to be open against us. Against Norwich, we played good football.

They played a silly 442 against us and Eriksen had miles of space between their rigid banks of 4.
I have the game sitting on my hard drive here's a random screenshot showing their 2 strikers doing **** all as we started an attack.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

They played a silly 442 against us and Eriksen had miles of space between their rigid banks of 4.
I have the game sitting on my hard drive here's a random screenshot showing their 2 strikers doing **** all as we started an attack.

Again, a 4-4-2 doesn't mean attacking any more than a 4-5-1 means it's defensive.

 

[Modric THFC]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

Again, a 4-4-2 doesn't mean attacking any more than a 4-5-1 means it's defensive.

I'm saying its defensive I'm saying it open and not a packed tight midfield like everyone else plays against us. You can see Eriksen about to slip into space behind some oblivious midfielder's back, Walker is on the overlap with acre of space in front of him, Paulinho has so much space he's actually demanding the ball!!

 

[DHSF]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

Yes he wants to build a system that's all to do with conserving energy for big games and attacking for only 20 percent of game or something.
That might have worked in Portugal, where only 5 clubs have ever won the league, and you'd still beat smaller team if your players took it in turns to go off for smoke breaks.
But in the Premier League where anyone can beat anyone, you can't disrespect teams and get away with it. You cant designate 20 minutes at the end of the game as when we're gonna score and not come away with terrible boring performances and no goals.

Yeah Paretos 80/20 rule which whilst is fairly true in a working environment its really the first 20% of the day i.e. the morning,. In a football match the first 20 minutes. Whats wrong with his implementation mis that the set of players are coming out sluggish etc. Last season we didnt in fairness - we started games rampant at times - Manure away, Southampton away, Swnasea away (see a trend here - away games by the way).

 

[Lemonade Money]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

Ergo ‏@SniersMoregut 15h
Mou has made worst start ever in abramovich era. Silence from the media. Avb had made best ever pl start for spurs & is clinging onto job

 

[DHSF]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

Ergo ‏@SniersMoregut 15h
Mou has made worst start ever in abramovich era. Silence from the media. Avb had made best ever pl start for spurs & is clinging onto job

AVB started last year,

Mourinho has just returned.

If I remember correctly - AVB had a poor start last season - WBA, Norwich at home, Wigan at home. Terrible results and ****ty performances.

Wow - we really gonna go down that route to look at stats too.

 

[spurs' magna carter]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

AVB started last year,

Mourinho has just returned.

If I remember correctly - AVB had a poor start last season - WBA, Norwich at home, Wigan at home. Terrible results and ****ty performances.

Wow - we really gonna go down that route to look at stats too.

I think that stat is looking at the best start to a season, not best start to a stint. I read today we're 3 points better off than this time last season.

 

[ringo]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

I'd be interested knowing our goals for and against at the equivalent point last season. Anyone? Statto?

 

[Pirate55]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

Doesn't matter anyway, the wheels are turning regardless of whatever ******** we exchange mate…for the record, he has to show up in Tromso it's an obligation (he is contractually obliged to be at the press conference, etc)…I fear he is retreating back into his nervous and OCD shell right now. He is learning how to handle extreme pressure, but he has not learned yet. It's a great shame…

I'll use this post as an opportunity to answer Jurgen's question of earlier with regards to what I see as his grand plan.

I believe his first objective was to assemble a squad of players who could all play several different styles and positions in their respective areas. Footballers who could quickly adapt and switch according to the ebb of the game.

I believe his plan was to play high-line football with full-backs pushing on to supply width and inverted wingers used to check in and make channel runs/runs/get into creative spaces.

I believe that from day one he craved Moutinho, a passer, and that this type of player remains the one he needs to get it all flowing.

I believe that he wanted us as a team to both dominate possession and slowly pick teams off, squeezing the play and controlling the game, in effect playing the game in the other team's half.

I believe that his first order of call was to make sure the defense was tight and the keeper played as an auxillary defender, watching for breakthroughs and snuffing out whenever the defense could not recover.

I believe that he was looking to eventually develop several points of sustained attack by virtue of controlling the ball; through the channels, from the overlapping full-backs, and from the inverted wingers. Essentially looking to blitz with quick to-feet touches and movement around the box, sustained pressure being the safe-cracker.

I think he was probably 60% of the way there. PERSONALLY, I would like to see him approach a slightly more 'sheepskin coat' approach to management sometimes, where he occasionally drags a case of beer into the dressing room and reinforces the camaraderie and togetherness that these highly paid children need nonetheless. I would like to see him employ a bit more psychology in this regard. I am sadly convinced that due to a lot of new faces, due to not ever getting 'the player' he REALLY wanted, and due to the increasing pressures and expectations of managing a club like ours, some of his old nervous tics have reappeared. His comments about the fans, whilst 100% correct IMO, were ill-advised. His comments during the Lloris saga, whilst once again not the worst, were once again ill-advised. And again, even though I agree with everything he said post-Sunday, those are the times you have to either take it on YOUR OWN shoulders as the manager, or write it off as a freak. When Martinez's Wigan lost 9-1 at ours, he wrote it off. I'll bet he didn't in the dressing room. So inexperience and nerves rising to the surface again…

It's all really sad. All of it. I mean look real LIFE is obviously much sadder, but in the football sense and as Spurs supporters, this is all really sad.

I hope I'm wrong, but I hear the bell tolling in the background…again, hope it's actually someone's car alarm!!!!

Several points.

If AVB had any sense he would pull a sickie (migraine, man flu whatever) and duck out of the Tromso trip to spend time with the first team getting them ready for the Man U game. A decent performance here irrespective of the result is mega important for both him and the team.

I don't agree with you on Moutinho. If he was vital to AVBs plans, then he should have made a stand with Levy, just like Harry did with Parker. Also, having failed to get him we never tried to sign a passer. Instead, we signed Pauli and Capoue and let Hudd and Carroll go. So much for that plan.

If he was going to play inverted wingers, why spend £26 m on an ageing poacher style striker who requires fast delivery in the box. Surely AVB must have gone out on a limb to sign him and convince the board of his need. It isn't a typical Levy signing and AVB must have been really insistent that he was the player to make it all happen. Then he doesn't play to his strengths. Weird.

Regarding the "ashamed" quote, I am sure I heard him say another version after the game (I'm pretty sure he was standing and not sitting in the formal Press Conference). Maybe this is where the Press got it from that he blamed the team.

I still think he has got three PL games to turn it round. Please AVB, show us all you really are a top coach.

 

[Jordinho]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

I think that stat is looking at the best start to a season, not best start to a stint. I read today we're 3 points better off than this time last season.

We're 2 points better off against the same opponents and 3 points compared to this stage last season, but we're now 8 points behind 2011/12. We did however start to lose momentum from game 14 that season and the less said about how it finished, the better.

Chelsea are 2 points down on the same opponents and on the same number of points they had at this stage last season. Their win at the weekend put them two points ahead of 2011/12.

 

[Jordinho]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

I'd be interested knowing our goals for and against at the equivalent point last season. Anyone? Statto?

9-12 this season and 20-21 last season.

 

[ringo]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

9-12 this season and 20-21 last season.

Amazing stats this season really. Especially when you consider it was only six against before the Emirates Marketing Project game.
We don't score goals and we don't concede them (unless it is against really good attacks). It is kind of anti-football.

 

[Pirate55]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

Amazing stats this season really. Especially when you consider it was only six against before the Emirates Marketing Project game.
We don't score goals and we don't concede them (unless it is against really good attacks). It is kind of anti-football.

...and who wants to watch that!

 

[90291Spur]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

It's the correct choice of words if he meant it as 'the royal we', which is how I took it and most people would. He is stating rather clearly to me that everyone was culpable.

To sack him now after 12 games would really make a joke of the whole exercise. I believe in giving a man a second chance and as he has previously shown, he can learn from his mistakes. He is a very young man in terms of managerial experience and will get some things wrong. Let's see if he is man enough to alter his footballing ideology before we write him off so quickly. A few decent results and the Emirates Marketing Project game will be a footnote in the records books. We may be looking back on that match as a turning point for the better.

As for the media articles, I pay them no mind. They get paid to sell papers and twist things to sensationalise the story. There may be a kernel of truth in there somewhere but I doubt it is as far gone as they describe.

To be pedantic, the 'royal we' is when a singular person i.e the Queen, is talking about herself. The fact is that in this era of a voracious media AVB gave them something to get their teeth into. And also ran the risk of the very delicate egos in the dressing room feeling as if he were blaming them. That stuff should be done behind closed doors. Now someone like Whinger can call his team 'immature' multiple times and get away with it. AVB hopefully will mature himself from this situation and be more careful with his words.