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*** Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa ***

If none of the managers make the players happy then in part at least that’s down to the manager. I mean the manager has to manage the dressing room. The only thing I would say is that managers often require a few seasons to build their squads and Conte doesn’t deserve that right now.

after displays like today and thats not the first or the worst by a long way we can't keep blaming the manager and trying to keep players happy.
kane, son and lloris have all been her during all these "downturns" and yet get away with it because they have "credit in the bank" and sack managers who have medals on thier mantlepiece. i know which one i would rather have.
 
People going way over board as usual.

Hahah

I love how people keep saying its the fans going OTT and nothing to do with a trend in our form. People denied for weeks we were poor first half only for Conte to admit it before they would.

It seems for some there is always an excuse "well they didnt have chances till mistakes", "We are missing players", "Its the wc"

Our poor performances can't always just be down to these excuses, its laughable. And regardless of the excuses, its a results business and results are starting to see us slip badly
 
after displays like today and thats not the first or the worst by a long way we can't keep blaming the manager and trying to keep players happy.
kane, son and lloris have all been her during all these "downturns" and yet get away with it because they have "credit in the bank" and sack managers who have medals on thier mantlepiece. i know which one i would rather have.

The manger picks them though, they don't pick themselves, its not the credit in the bank from fans that matter, its the manager, if what you say is true, and I agree in part, then the manager is still complicit......
 
This is an issue with the structure then, the whole point of a DOF is to instill an ethos/style of play across the team and sign the players for it so in theory changes of manager shouldn't affect the team that much. He did sign quite a few players in the summer and if FBs are so important why not get a new RB in. It feels like the people at the top (Levy and Patrici) don't have a clue of the type of football they want to play and just get some big names in to appease players and manager.

Paratici never seemed like a 'systems' DOF. Not even at Juve - when he was second-in-command to Beppe Marotta, he scouted players for Marotta, more or less, and Moratta's philosophy was to be flexible with the tactical systems used by Juve managers (see the differences in Conte and Allegri, for instance), but inflexible with the mental and technical qualities needed to play for Juve.

Once Marotta left after he was undermined by Paratici going over his head to Agnelli on the Ronaldo deal (Paratici wanted him, Marotta didn't), Paratici took charge and seemed more focused on signing big names on frees over building a team philosophy - in Paratici's time in charge, they bounced from Allegri to Maurizio Sarri to Pirlo, with wildly differing philosophies each time.

From his days at Sampdoria onwards, Paratici has often been described as having a magnificent eye for talent, and it shows. But he's never been a 'system' DOF - he buys players to suit the club or the manager. Sort of like Comolli and Baldini used to be for us.

The only time we really had a scouting system and manager aligned in their visions was in the early Poch years, when Michael Edwards and Paul Mitchell's black box were optimized for young, high-pressing players and those were exactly the type Poch found success with.
 
Hahah

I love how people keep saying its the fans going OTT and nothing to do with a trend in our form. People denied for weeks we were poor first half only for Conte to admit it before they would.

It seems for some there is always an excuse "well they didnt have chances till mistakes", "We are missing players", "Its the wc"

Our poor performances can't always just be down to these excuses, its laughable. And regardless of the excuses, its a results business and results are starting to see us slip badly
Absolutely, it's not the results, it's the performances. So many times "lesser teams" looking like they want it more, not just get it over with.
 
The manger picks them though, they don't pick themselves, its not the credit in the bank from fans that matter, its the manager, if what you say is true, and I agree in part, then the manager is still complicit......

so whats the manager supposed to do, who does he pick instead?
we don't have a deep squad and for me some of them are playing on that fact.
 
Absolutely, it's not the results, it's the performances. So many times "lesser teams" looking like they want it more, not just get it over with.
villa didn't even look like they wanted it today and still pumped us 0-2, came for a draw and could easily have won by 3 or 4.
 
so whats the manager supposed to do, who does he pick instead?
we don't have a deep squad and for me some of them are playing on that fact.

He dropped Son once, it worked, he has been dreadful since and has not dropped him since.

He could push Perisic up a LF and Sess as LWB (He played him there at the start of season and last)....But continues to play a rank out of form Son.....Who to blame? Its certainly not the fans on this forum
 
so whats the manager supposed to do, who does he pick instead?
we don't have a deep squad and for me some of them are playing on that fact.
I think that one of the biggest threats to team morale is not benching players who doesn't do well over extended periods of time. It's not even that important who he's replaced with, all players in the squad are professional footballers. Not only for the players competing for the spot, but also the player in question.
 
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Paratici never seemed like a 'systems' DOF. Not even at Juve - when he was second-in-command to Beppe Marotta, he scouted players for Marotta, more or less, and Moratta's philosophy was to be flexible with the tactical systems used by Juve managers (see the differences in Conte and Allegri, for instance), but inflexible with the mental and technical qualities needed to play for Juve.

Once Marotta left after he was undermined by Paratici going over his head to Agnelli on the Ronaldo deal (Paratici wanted him, Marotta didn't), Paratici took charge and seemed more focused on signing big names on frees over building a team philosophy - in Paratici's time in charge, they bounced from Allegri to Maurizio Sarri to Pirlo, with wildly differing philosophies each time.

From his days at Sampdoria onwards, Paratici has often been described as having a magnificent eye for talent, and it shows. But he's never been a 'system' DOF - he buys players to suit the club or the manager. Sort of like Comolli and Baldini used to be for us.

The only time we really had a scouting system and manager aligned in their visions was in the early Poch years, when Michael Edwards and Paul Mitchell's black box were optimized for young, high-pressing players and those were exactly the type Poch found success with.

Good to know, interesting to see if we sack paratici as he hadn't bought the players that conte wants. well at least that's something Levy could say.
 
We do, but a lot of it predates Conte. No one can make Eric Dier work. No one. No one can make Ben Davies anything other than mediocre, and I don't think any manager accounts for Son being in such atrocious form (goalless in 16 out of 17 PL games is a truly mindblowing stat for the holder of last season's Golden Boot).

You can't account for Lloris' rapid decline either - he's only fit for the knacker's yard now. And the backups, Sanchez et al, are just utterly mediocre even compared to what Villa have.

I'm telling you, any manager who sees this lot will play the way Conte does, because there is no other choice with the personnel we have. We need 3 defenders, or we will concede hatfuls. We need 3 forwards, because we will struggle to score otherwise. That means we can only play a midfield two, and without Bentancur that midfield duo looks horrid because it is.

I blame him for a lot of things, but not for the tactics he uses, because truth be told, it's the only way to make this squad work.
So why isn't it working this season with better players available and a full preseason? I personally think he has lost the dressing room. He has good enough players to have us performing more consistently and not leaking in goals. So the fact we're not means something else is wrong.
 
He dropped Son once, it worked, he has been dreadful since and has not dropped him since.

He could push Perisic up a LF and Sess as LWB (He played him there at the start of season and last)....But continues to play a rank out of form Son.....Who to blame? Its certainly not the fans on this forum
Son is a good example. It's not even a question of opinion. He's been totally out of form, not even capable of things he could do in his sleep one year ago. Being benched doesn't mean everybody hates you and your career is over, it's just that we need to try something different for a while.
 
So why isn't it working this season with better players available and a full preseason? I personally think he has lost the dressing room. He has good enough players to have us performing more consistently and not leaking in goals. So the fact we're not means something else is wrong.

Seems he has gone all sulky
 
I think that one of the biggest threats to team morale is not benching players who doesn't do well over extended periods of time. It's not even that important who he's replaced with, all players in the squad are professional footballers. Not only for the players competing for the spot, but also the player in question.

i've asked on the kulu thread, are kulu, bentancur and richarlson out with mystery niggles? is it a coincidence?
how son and peh are getting minutes ahead of richarlson and skip is bizarre.
 
Tottenham Hotspur manager Antonio Conte speaking to the BBC:

"In the first half we played with good intensity. We didn't concede anything and we found a team that defended too deep and then we conceded this goal and then the confidence dropped for my players.

"We have to know that our life is this. We have to fight every game for one point or for three points. This is the truth, especially when you are without two or three important players and have difficulties.

"We have different characteristics. We don't have many players who are really good to beat the man. We don't have many creative players in our team. For sure today was really difficult to find space in the first half.

"I'm sure that if we don't concede the goal, we could win the game instead. The goal that we conceded killed us in confidence and in many situations for sure. You have to try and improve and develop these players and especially young players to be even stronger.
 
Lenglet, Dier and Davies are for teams fighting to avoid relegation. Sanchez and Sessegnon are Championship level players, while Tanganga and Royal are League One.

I get the bad result / performances in general causing an overreaction but how can A - Someone wrote this post and B - Spurs "fans" like it!? With all due respect it's utter gonads.

Moving on from that dross post, not sure if a silver linings post will go down well but good to see Gill, Sarr and Spence get on + the reaction Djed got from the crowd. Even if it could be misplaced optimism re the youngster, his introduction was at least something to cheer about, which the fans deserve.

It's an odd bare bones without that many injuries and it appears Conte doesn't really fancy the trio but none were atrocious (like one could argue many others but in particular Son or Lloris on the first goal.....or Sess once he came on...).
 
i think a regeneration of our long serving payers might be in order, this will take a while - i think we are too predictable, mind you emery is a very canny and smart manager

Conte will need a long hard look, he must be wondering where it is all unravelling in front of him
 
i've asked on the kulu thread, are kulu, bentancur and richarlson out with mystery niggles? is it a coincidence?
how son and peh are getting minutes ahead of richarlson and skip is bizarre.
Richarlson’s only been fit for a month or so since he’s been with us hasn’t he?

bentancur and richarlson Got injured at the World Cup they were both taken off for their national teams due to it. Can’t see any mystery there.
 
On conceding first again: "We have conceded the first goal and for sure we try to play to score goals. There is an opponent like you that can score during the game. We understand very well that the league will be really really difficult for us.

"We have to try to recover all the [injured] players and then we have to know that in every game we have to fight and show that we are strong. The league will be very difficult for us.

"I want to be honest, I want to be very clear. I have said this to the club, I have said my opinions. The fans deserve the best. Maybe to stay in 5th is the best. Maybe 6th, 7th, 5th or 4th is the best."
 
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