*** OMT Tottenham Hotspur vs Saudi Sportswashing ***

[glorygloryeze]

Yep
Individual error
The system is high lines
And he is playing left side
But he got that wrong

It's worrying that we'd continue to employ the highline when we are missing the main person that just about let's us get away with it....

 

[Bedfordspurs]

It's worrying that we'd continue to employ the highline when we are missing the main person that just about let's us get away with it....

Why?
It’s the system
It’s by design
It’s works if the players do their job
They got in three times all game despite pumping it long a lot.
Teams don’t just quit something they have been practicing.
Don’t think Ange would be saying yesterday morning VDV didn’t travel guys so we’re playing something different..

 

[glorygloryeze]

Why?
It’s the system
It’s by design
It’s works if the players do their job
They got in three times all game despite pumping it long a lot.
Teams don’t just quit something they have been practicing.
Don’t think Ange would be saying yesterday morning VDV didn’t travel guys so we’re playing something different..

It's all well and good having a system and sticking to it at all costs if you have effectively two squads with all the players you need, like Pep.
However, the best coaches can adapt to their given situations accordingly. Playing a highline constantly to the halfway line without the fastest defender in the league (who bails us out often enough, maybe too much to the detriment of his own physical wellbeing?) is simply asking for trouble. Saudi Sportswashing Machine aren't even that great. Imagine that was vs Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool? They've even more sped than Saudi Sportswashing Machine!

How much did we dislike Conte in the end because he was so inflexible given what he had/didn't have at his disposal?

 

[Bedfordspurs]

It's all well and good having a system and sticking to it at all costs if you have effectively two squads with all the players you need, like Pep.
However, the best coaches can adapt to their given situations accordingly. Playing a highline constantly to the halfway line without the fastest defender in the league (who bails us out often enough, maybe too much to the detriment of his own physical wellbeing?) is simply asking for trouble. Saudi Sportswashing Machine aren't even that great. Imagine that was vs Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool? They've even more sped than Saudi Sportswashing Machine!

How much did we dislike Conte in the end because he was so inflexible given what he had/didn't have at his disposal?

The other teams your talk about though won’t low block
That’s a very different set up to attack and defend
The issue with conte is we didn’t attack and didn’t defend
With Ange we do both but there are still some issues

 

[alekaras]

Agreed re striker, but even with Solanke or Richy fit, we would need for them to score at least 2 to draw and 3 to win. Not sure that's sustainable.

It depends when we score. The reason we let in their second is because we were pushing for the win, a fact that shows good mentality from the team. Had we gotten a second goal before they did I think you wouldn't have seen such a high line after it.

 

[Bishop]

The low block issue really won’t go away and that’s where we need to be smart
Yesterday it was shooting form outside more and also the set pieces which were clever
I don’t know the answer with the current midfield. I think Donley passes better than Maddison for this set up for example
I don’t agree the crosses are hopeful, they are part of the plan. We haven’t yet seen anyone attack any other than Brennan.
It may not work, but I’d like to see it tried with the right players.

We aren't playing like Emirates Marketing Project do. I think you misunderstand the way that Ange is setting us up to play the game.

Ange's system doesn't necessarily need 'dribbly wingers' He just needs wingers who can do two things:

1. Get in a low cross between the keeper and the opposition defenders.
2. Keep up with play and get to the far post ahead of your direct opponent when the ball comes in from the other wing.

Johnson is able to do both of those things despite not being a great dribbler. You don't have to directly beat an opponent one on one to be able to deliver the ball into the area that Ange wants the ball delivered.

My response to both of you is simply I do not believe this setup works. It's taking the worst of a heavy possession (playing against congested defences) and combining it with the worst of a orthodox winger system (undirected low percentage crosses into an area) added to being incredibly susceptible to counter attacks.

I don't think it will work. I hope I'm wrong but I just can't see it. We want to keep the ball, but then when we attack we actually want to just kick it into an area without specific direction and we are surprised when the ball is cleared and we suffer from the subsequent counter? Which heavy side has ever done this? The point of the possession is typically to offer wave after wave of attack until you break the opposition mentally through their mistakes. The way we play we aren't over stressing them at all.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

My response to both of you is simply I do not believe this setup works. It's taking the worst of a heavy possession (playing against congested defences) and combining it with the worst of a orthodox winger system (undirected low percentage crosses into an area) added to being incredibly susceptible to counter attacks.

I don't think it will work. I hope I'm wrong but I just can't see it. We want to keep the ball, but then when we attack we actually want to just kick it into an area without specific direction and we are surprised when the ball is cleared and we suffer from the subsequent counter? Which heavy side has ever done this? The point of the possession is typically to offer wave after wave of attack until you break the opposition mentally through their mistakes. The way we play we aren't over stressing them at all.

But you won’t over stress the opposition CBS when you dont have a CF makin them work

I’d like to see us with a CF first and foremost for a number of games and see if the attack is failing then, and if so, I’ll concede no questions asked

 

[Bishop]

Not neccessarily true. Crosses in between the keeper and defence are quite high percentage attacks but they do rely on the centre forward and opposite winger staying up with the attack and getting into the right area. The kicker here is that these sorts of attacks are much easier to create than putting somebody in one on one (which is a very hard thing to do, especially when playing against mid to low block defences).

Emirates Marketing Project used to play loads of low crosses across the box but they were A.) typically actually directed at a specific man, B.) Taken from much closer inside the box and C.) against defenders who had already been turned one way and then the other by their dribbly wingers. We don't do any of these things. I don't know why we think it's going work.

 

[Bishop]

But you won’t over stress the opposition CBS when you dont have a CF makin them work

1 CF in the middle alone isn't going to over stress defenders if they know all they have to worry about is a low cross across the box. We need to be hitting angles and passes earlier and quicker and it would be nice if our wide players actually worried them.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

1 CF in the middle alone isn't going to over stress defenders if they know all they have to worry about is a low cross across the box. We need to be hitting angles and passes earlier and quicker and it would be nice if our wide players actually worried them.

It makes a huge difference IMO
If you know the Cf is going to attack everything you have to be much more switched on than what happens when sonny plays and doesn’t attack anything (at Cf)
We got 6 OGs last year from CBS panicking from these crosses and I don’t know how many we actually scored on top
We have to make them think more

 

[Bishop]

View attachment 17601
That is frightening body shape from Romero for a lad with so much talent. Honestly, if an under 12 did that, I'd kick them in the hole.

It's terrible shape but you guys are focusing on the wrong aspect. Let's pretend Romero was actually facing the right way, the ball would have still been played, he would have still had to catch Murphy and win the ball cleanly. There's no bloody guarantee that he would have done so.

Yes Romero's body shape is fudging awful but the systemic issue is a much bigger problem. Why the fudge can Saudi Sportswashing Machine play 1 single fudging ball from halfway in their own half and it opens us up to a 2 V3 counter on our goal?

This is suicidal defending and it only takes one player to get it wrong (Romero in this case) for an incredibly easy goal chance to become apparent.

 

[SpurMeUp]

View attachment 17601
That is frightening body shape from Romero for a lad with so much talent. Honestly, if an under 12 did that, I'd kick them in the hole.

Would have been offside if Dragusin stayed in line tbf.

 

[billyiddo]

It's all well and good having a system and sticking to it at all costs if you have effectively two squads with all the players you need, like Pep.
However, the best coaches can adapt to their given situations accordingly. Playing a highline constantly to the halfway line without the fastest defender in the league (who bails us out often enough, maybe too much to the detriment of his own physical wellbeing?) is simply asking for trouble. Saudi Sportswashing Machine aren't even that great. Imagine that was vs Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool? They've even more sped than Saudi Sportswashing Machine!

How much did we dislike Conte in the end because he was so inflexible given what he had/didn't have at his disposal?

Conte Mourinho & Pochettino didn't adapt at Spurs.

Klopp Arteta & Pep didn't at their respective clubs either.

I'm sure there are other examples. Managers who change their approach based on the players at their disposal are few and far between these days, especially in the first couple of years when the aim is to get the team up to speed with how they want to play.

Managers live and die by bedding in their tactics and there is often a year or two of ups & downs at the beginning.

Ange is no different, either his tactics work and he's here long enough to get the team playing how he wants or they don't/he isn't here long enough to see it through.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Would have been offside if Dragusin stayed in line tbf.

But offside on the halfway line is a high risk as we all know

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Conte Mourinho & Pochettino didn't adapt at Spurs.

Klopp Arteta & Pep didn't either.

I'm sure there are other examples - managers who change their approach based on the players at their disposal are few and far between these days, especially in the first couple of years when the aim is to get the team up to speed with how they want to play.


Managers live and die by bedding in their tactics and there is often a year or two of ups & downs at the beginning.

Ange is no different, either his tactics work and he's here long enough to get the team playing how he wants or they don't/he isn't here long enough to see it through.

People quickly forget
Someone said on teletext yesterday that Poch fixed it all quickly .. I was like it took him 2 seasons and a LOT of hard work

 

[SpurMeUp]

My response to both of you is simply I do not believe this setup works. It's taking the worst of a heavy possession (playing against congested defences) and combining it with the worst of a orthodox winger system (undirected low percentage crosses into an area) added to being incredibly susceptible to counter attacks.

I don't think it will work. I hope I'm wrong but I just can't see it. We want to keep the ball, but then when we attack we actually want to just kick it into an area without specific direction and we are surprised when the ball is cleared and we suffer from the subsequent counter? Which heavy side has ever done this? The point of the possession is typically to offer wave after wave of attack until you break the opposition mentally through their mistakes. The way we play we aren't over stressing them at all.

From your post, you'd think we were outplayed, out-gunned. When it seemed to me like we were in the ascendency and need to convert our dominance into goals. It is not like we were well beaten. Away from home, at a place we often lose. And we have with other more conventional systems.

 

[DeanoAustin]

People quickly forget
Someone said on teletext yesterday that Poch fixed it all quickly .. I was like it took him 2 seasons and a LOT of hard work

To be fair, after 5-6 months, you could see an improvement, a plan and issues being fixed. The NYD win over Chelsea in his first season really turned heads. The next season, we finished 3rd (and should have been 2nd but for the rotten finish). It didn't take 2 years.

 

[Bishop]

From your post, you'd think we were outplayed, out-gunned. When it seemed to me like we were in the ascendency and need to convert our dominance into goals. It is not like we were well beaten. Away from home, at a place we often lose. And we have with other more conventional systems.

I dunno where you think I said we were out gunned or even outplayed?

We were outscored though, in the end only thing that actually matters.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

To be fair, after 5-6 months, you could see an improvement, a plan and issues being fixed. The NYD win over Chelsea in his first season really turned heads. The next season, we finished 3rd (and should have been 2nd but for the rotten finish). It didn't take 2 years.

But we did we judge the next season after 3 games ?
Because if we did it’s worse than this year
2 points from 9 and 6 from 15
And I can see improvements

 

[DeanoAustin]

But we did we judge the next season after 3 games ?
Because if we did it’s worse than this year
2 points from 9

Nobody is judging Ange solely after 3 games of this season. People are seeing a lot of the same issues from last season carry on over into this season. So with Ange, you had a great start that's tailed off into mediocrity (results wise) pretty consistently for a year now.

With Poch, you had a slow start, it picked up, you could see a plan and issues being fixed and he had momentum behind him.

I've not seen one Spurs fan call for Ange to be fired or anything. The fans are behind him. But there are very legitimate concerns.