*** OMT Tottenham Hotspur vs Saudi Sportswashing ***

[Bishop]

Maddison is meant to make those passes you talk about to put someone in… haven’t seen that yet
Ange ball is not the way you describe with WF as goal scorers. They are there to play wide, attack the back post in reverse and hit crosses
It’s not the way pool or arsenal play

We can't be relying on a single player to be making the incisive passes. It's an over reliance on one individual, those qualities need to be spread across more players and with regards to bot playing goal scoring WFs Ange ball is not going to work in that case sorry.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

But harsh on Madison. He was on a yellow and I'd guess Joelinton could bust pass most people?.

I agree on some of your other observations....Madders is a bit too 'conductor' sometimes...just keep the ball moving.

He is a weak link IMO right now
Takes too many touches and plays with no pace.
The tackle effort was weak even with a yellow and it allowed the passing lane.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

We can't be relying on a single player to be making the incisive passes. It's an over reliance on one individual, those qualities need to be spread across more players and with regards to bot playing goal scoring WFs Ange ball is not going to work in that case sorry.

Don’t disagree about the passing
Regarding the WFs they do get goals in his system. They are not though there to do a saka or a salah.

 

[Bishop]

Don’t disagree about the passing
Regarding the WFs they do get goals in his system. They are not though there to do a saka or a salah.

We need a Saka or Salah and a Kane/Lewa. Either or isn't going to cut it. Ange is going to find this out. Let's hope for his sake he realises before Levy does.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

We need a Saka or Salah and a Kane/Lewa. Either or isn't going to cut it. Ange is going to find this out. Let's hope for his sake he realises before Levy does.

I dont think we do
If
If
The BIF IF
Players do what they are instructed to do
If someone plays a cross . attack the six yard box
If we press, we all press
If we’re defending, don’t run to the half way line like a nutter
If you see a a man unmarked, don’t walk past him and leave him

 

[Finney Is Back]

Just looked and we had 1.24 to Leicester’s 1.02 Xg and Saudi Sportswashing Machine had 1.57 to our 1.26 Xg.

I’m not a big lover of the stat but I think it does tell a story in our case. We aren’t missing big chances by any means and, for all our dominance in games, we cough up much better chances than we create. I don’t need Xg to tell me that, I see it with my own eyes.

Indeed, and Saudi Sportswashing Machine's XG doesn't include the chance when Isak was through one on one only for Dragusin to make his goal saving tackle as Isak delayed too long and didn't get his shot away. We are clearly giving away too many big chances.

 

[Finney Is Back]

He nearly makes the cross, nearly finds his man, nearly gets a touch on goal.

I've no idea what you are saying here.

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

We had 66% posession
Twice as many shots as them
Twice as many shots on target
Twice as many chances created.

You don't have stats like that if your midfield is 'over run'.
We totally dominated.

Nah we were over run on the turnover because we committed to many players,those stats are misleading

 

[Finney Is Back]

He made a few great crosses. You're laying the blame at the wrong player for nobody getting on those crosses. Son and Odobert should've been getting on to the end of them instead of hanging back doing nothing in positions that they were never going to get a cross to.

Indeed. Somebody (sorry can't remember who) posted a training clip in another thread, where (I think it is) Mason is doing drills with the attackers where the wide right player is supposed to get the ball into the area between the defence and the keeper. I think Mason even says "don't even look, just get the ball in" or words to that effect.

Johnson was carrying out Ange's instructions to the letter. Odobert and Son were absolutely not (neither tried to get in the box and across their direct opponent)

 

[Bishop]

I dont think we do
If
If
The BIF IF
Players do what they are instructed to do
If someone plays a cross . attack the six yard box
If we press, we all press
If we’re defending, don’t run to the half way line like a nutter
If you see a a man unmarked, don’t walk past him and leave him

I don't really deal with perfect day scenarios. I'll deal with reality and the reality is what we have been and are seeing.

Crosses across the box are and always have been low percentage attacks. You need to make a continued number of them to score and we aren't picking picking players out most of the time. A lot are just flung into an area, that's a hopeful but ultimately a low percentage chance.

Our pressing can be better but at the moment our pressing is what is leaving these gaps which makes us very easy to play through.

And defenders will make mistakes, some more than others but if they are dealing with counters and are under pressure the likelihood of making those mistakes is increased.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I don't really deal with perfect day scenarios. I'll deal with reality and the reality is what we have been and are seeing.

Crosses across the box are and always have been low percentage attacks. You need to make a continued number of them to score and we aren't picking picking players out most of the time. A lot are just flung into an area, that's a hopeful but ultimately a low percentage chance.

Our pressing can be better but at the moment our pressing is what is leaving these gaps which makes us very easy to play through.

And defenders will make mistakes, some more than others but if they are dealing with counters and are under pressure the likelihood of making those mistakes is increased.

You haven’t seen the video I posted in the Ange thread have you? The coaching one with Mason and the crossing drills

And you can’t tell me we were under pressure when we conceded any of our goals this year. We were comfortable which is why I think Romero switches off

He had no reason to leave Vardy… he did
He had no reason to chase the ball for that throw in…, he did
He had no reason to step up where he was on the the half way line and then jog… he did

None of those goals came form a period of sustained pressure on us

 

[Finney Is Back]

Everyone is focusing on the striker so much when what need is goal scoring wingers. We need players who are offering a genuine threat from the wide positions, directly threatening to score themselves or consistently turning their defenders inside and out and opening space for other to take advantage.

All the teams who play a system somewhat like ourselves successfully have these type of players and it's what makes it work. Wingers who offer no threat themselves or can only play hopeful balls inside are not winning us the league, hell at this rate it might not even get us top 4, because for the intricate movement and shapes we take up our play just is not incisive enough.

How often in these first three matches have we seen a pass played through the lines that given a forward a genuine 1 in 1 shot on goal. It's barely happened and considering all the possession we've had and all the touches in the opposition penalty boxes it shows our play is incredibly blunt. Even yesterday we only scored because Maddison did that thing that is forbidden, he took a shot and the keeper fumbled it to Johnson. Without that risk taking shot we probably would have never scored.

I disagree, not with the part about us needing goal scoring wingers but about the way in which you think they should play.

It appears to me as though in Ange's system he wants the wingers to stay wide, get into the final third and then put a low crosse between the keeper and the defenders. The winger on the opposite side is then supposed to attack the back post for the finish, while the centre forward is supposed to attack the area between the near post and the centre of the goal.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I disagree, not with the part about us needing goal scoring wingers but about the way in which you think they should play.

It appears to me as though in Ange's system he wants the wingers to stay wide, get into the final third and then put a low crosse between the keeper and the defenders. The winger on the opposite side is then supposed to attack the back post for the finish, while the centre forward is supposed to attack the area between the near post and the centre of the goal.

Like this

https://x.com/rots1882/status/1830251152161821020?s=48&t=3lbpz6V5G0wssniHIU35Fw

 

[Bishop]

I disagree, not with the part about us needing goal scoring wingers but about the way in which you think they should play.

It appears to me as though in Ange's system he wants the wingers to stay wide, get into the final third and then put a low crosse between the keeper and the defenders. The winger on the opposite side is then supposed to attack the back post for the finish, while the centre forward is supposed to attack the area between the near post and the centre of the goal.

If that's the way Ange wants to play I honestly dont see it working with his sustained heavy possession style. We are going to force the opposition to essentially camp in their own box (and they are happy to do so) but we don't really have either dribbly wingers who can consistently beat their man and open space nor the cut glass incisive passer so we are struggling to generate clean chances. If we were playing quickly and into spaces then sure Johnson playing hopeful crosses into space would be a great way to take advantage of a defense on the turn but we play against set and settled defenders, ready and waiting for the fairly predictable and easy to defend final ball we play.

Sure like you say he wants to cross the ball in low but this is as I say a low percentage chance because we aren't picking out a player ala the way City have done for years especially in the Sterling era. We are just hitting hopeful crosses into an area. Sure a great CF will mop up some chances but it's such low percentage football and one that doesn't mesh well with the rest of the system. We are squeezing the opposition into their own box increasing the number of defenders present and then playing hopeful low percentage crosses. Thats why out xG is so low relative to our touches in the final 3rd and our possession stats. The two approaches just dont mesh.

It's a shame because I like Ange and I do really enjoy the general play and the patterns of play but his approach in the final 3rd I just don't see how it's going to work.

 

[Finney Is Back]

I don't really deal with perfect day scenarios. I'll deal with reality and the reality is what we have been and are seeing.

Crosses across the box are and always have been low percentage attacks. You need to make a continued number of them to score and we aren't picking picking players out most of the time. A lot are just flung into an area, that's a hopeful but ultimately a low percentage chance.

Our pressing can be better but at the moment our pressing is what is leaving these gaps which makes us very easy to play through.

And defenders will make mistakes, some more than others but if they are dealing with counters and are under pressure the likelihood of making those mistakes is increased.

Not neccessarily true. Crosses in between the keeper and defence are quite high percentage attacks but they do rely on the centre forward and opposite winger staying up with the attack and getting into the right area. The kicker here is that these sorts of attacks are much easier to create than putting somebody in one on one (which is a very hard thing to do, especially when playing against mid to low block defences).

 

[Bedfordspurs]

If that's the way Ange wants to play I honestly dont see it working with his sustained heavy possession style. We are going to force the opposition to essentially camp in their own box (and they are happy to do so) but we don't really have either dribbly wingers who can consistently beat their man and open space nor the cut glass incisive passer so we are struggling to generate clean chances. If we were playing quickly and into spaces then sure Johnson playing hopeful crosses into space would be a great way to take advantage of a defense on the turn but we play against set and settled defenders, ready and waiting for the fairly predictable and easy to defend final ball we play.

Sure like you say he wants to cross the ball in low but this is as I say a low percentage chance because we aren't picking out a player ala the way City have done for years especially in the Sterling era. We are just hitting hopeful crosses into an area. Sure a great CF will mop up some chances but it's such low percentage football and one that doesn't mesh well with the rest of the system. We are squeezing the opposition into their own box increasing the number of defenders present and then playing hopeful low percentage crosses. Thats why out xG is so low relative to our touches in the final 3rd and our possession stats. The two approaches just dont mesh.

It's a shame because I like Ange and I do really enjoy the general play and the patterns of play but his approach in the final 3rd I just don't see how it's going to work.

The low block issue really won’t go away and that’s where we need to be smart
Yesterday it was shooting form outside more and also the set pieces which were clever
I don’t know the answer with the current midfield. I think Donley passes better than Maddison for this set up for example
I don’t agree the crosses are hopeful, they are part of the plan. We haven’t yet seen anyone attack any other than Brennan.
It may not work, but I’d like to see it tried with the right players.

 

[Finney Is Back]

If that's the way Ange wants to play I honestly dont see it working with his sustained heavy possession style. We are going to force the opposition to essentially camp in their own box (and they are happy to do so) but we don't really have either dribbly wingers who can consistently beat their man and open space nor the cut glass incisive passer so we are struggling to generate clean chances. If we were playing quickly and into spaces then sure Johnson playing hopeful crosses into space would be a great way to take advantage of a defense on the turn but we play against set and settled defenders, ready and waiting for the fairly predictable and easy to defend final ball we play.

Sure like you say he wants to cross the ball in low but this is as I say a low percentage chance because we aren't picking out a player ala the way City have done for years especially in the Sterling era. We are just hitting hopeful crosses into an area. Sure a great CF will mop up some chances but it's such low percentage football and one that doesn't mesh well with the rest of the system. We are squeezing the opposition into their own box increasing the number of defenders present and then playing hopeful low percentage crosses. Thats why out xG is so low relative to our touches in the final 3rd and our possession stats. The two approaches just dont mesh.

It's a shame because I like Ange and I do really enjoy the general play and the patterns of play but his approach in the final 3rd I just don't see how it's going to work.

We aren't playing like Emirates Marketing Project do. I think you misunderstand the way that Ange is setting us up to play the game.

Ange's system doesn't necessarily need 'dribbly wingers' He just needs wingers who can do two things:

1. Get in a low cross between the keeper and the opposition defenders.
2. Keep up with play and get to the far post ahead of your direct opponent when the ball comes in from the other wing.

Johnson is able to do both of those things despite not being a great dribbler. You don't have to directly beat an opponent one on one to be able to deliver the ball into the area that Ange wants the ball delivered.

 

[DeanoAustin]

That is frightening body shape from Romero for a lad with so much talent. Honestly, if an under 12 did that, I'd kick them in the hole.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

View attachment 17601
That is frightening body shape from Romero for a lad with so much talent. Honestly, if an under 12 did that, I'd kick them in the hole.

Yep
Individual error
The system is high lines
And he is playing left side
But he got that wrong

 

[Bedfordspurs]

We aren't playing like Emirates Marketing Project do. I think you misunderstand the way that Ange is setting us up to play the game.

Ange's system doesn't necessarily need 'dribbly wingers' He just needs wingers who can do two things:

1. Get in a low cross between the keeper and the opposition defenders.
2. Keep up with play and get to the far post ahead of your direct opponent when the ball comes in from the other wing.

Johnson is able to do both of those things despite not being a great dribbler. You don't have to directly beat an opponent one on one to be able to deliver the ball into the area that Ange wants the ball delivered.

100%
The city similarities is the inverting full backs and the formation
But it’s a different system in the main