OMT * Tottenham Hotspur v Leicester City *

[Robspur12]

No subs, then 4 in one go seemed to be a bit risky today. That's a big change even if the personnel on the pitch were not performing. It would be difficult to establish any fluency. Thought it would have been better to make more incremental changes earlier, so Kulu for Johnson, then bergvall for Madison etc. But what do I know.

 

[Raziel]

Are the Woolwich back 4 much better than ours on an individual basis? Personally, I think we’ve 4 top, top defenders. Porro can be a little weak defensively and Romero can be unpredictable but they’re both excellent. Perhaps Saliba is a cut above them but not sure they have many others who are above our players.

They are not, Saliba is very good but as usual .. context

- Arsenal's back 5 in the first two seasons got them 8th place twice, then brick the bed on 4th in 3rd season, then in 4th season got working (any of the comments today re how many games Ange has had would have applied to Arteta in the start of his 4th season
- Arsenal pre Rice when Partey was injured was very susceptible, Arteta in some games will play two defensive types

I think people watch a different sport than I do, every team concedes chances, City conceded 1 less chance than they made against Chelsea (10 vs 11) in what everyone thinks was a dominant performance. We conceded less than 50%, 15 for us, 7 for Leicester, 13 corners to 2.

Game should have been dead in 1st half, we didn't kill it off and that's our fault.

My perspective

- Solanke's first game, this same game 3 months from now, he'd probably have a hattrick
- Johnson was poor, even so, had a couple of decent crosses/opportunities
- Maddison looked better than preseason
- Youngsters coming on didn't hurt us

Ange should have probably hooked Johnson for Deki at HT or 60 mins in, that's on him.

On to the next one

 

[SubZero]

Last season there was a lot of talk of Son being a great captain. And in many ways he is. He seems a top lad and he was all in on the team and not just glory for himself.

But fudge me, we needed someone tonight to really grab us by the scruff of the neck and kill Leicester’s momentum after the goal and they were all like a rabbit in the headlights. You’d expect Romero could do it but he’s been shown incapable of it time and again.

It’s not just brickhousery, Richarlison or Romero give you that but it’s brainless or pure wind up stuff most of the time.

The thing that seemed to stop the momentum tonight was Bentancur’s injury. That’s not good.

I can honestly say that I never thought of Son as great captain material, and have said so on several occations. We have in more than one thread voiced our opinions on both that we need a good captain, and what we think constitutes one. He doesn't tick the boxes I feel necessary. I don't want a nice guy or a brilliant player, I want a terrier that scares both players, referees and grandmothers. The role is detached from the skills in my book. But he also needs to be smart, know the limits of the team, the ref and the rules. If he's a great footballer as well, good.

To me, it looked like our momentum stopped earlier than that, where we seemingly felt confident because by GHod, Leicester were poor in the first 55. And I take a little blame for thinking that the players now could really spend themselves as we for once have adequate backup in most positions. Because then it stopped at that very instant. After Leicester equalized, we invited pressure, made silly mistakes and seemed unable to play football again. It's not that we didn't try, but we couldn't do squat. As you say, a typical captain moment. And I agree that Romero is unsuitable as captain. You want your captain to take a booking or worse for the team, not for being rash or stupid.

 

[Robspur12]

I think people watch a different sport than I do, every team concedes chances, City conceded 1 less chance than they made against Chelsea (10 vs 11) in what everyone thinks was a dominant performance. We conceded less than 50%, 15 for us, 7 for Leicester, 13 corners to 2.

Ours were conceded in 1 half and where we barely had any of the game. That context is crucial.

 

[SubZero]

Kane was the absolute master of helping us kill games under Jose and Conte. Get him the ball and wide and you just knew he’d waste 20-30 seconds and then draw a foul.

Absolutely. We miss his goals of course, but the biggest loss was one of the cleverest footballers alive.

 

[Raziel]

Ours were conceded in 1 half and where we barely had any of the game. That context is crucial.

? not sure I understand the reference

We dominated the game for all but 15 mins .. which is about as good as you can expect in the PL against anyone.

We conceded 3 shots on goal all game, when that period was, not sure the point?

 

[Robspur12]

? not sure I understand the reference

We dominated the game for all but 15 mins .. which is about as good as you can expect in the PL against anyone.

We conceded 3 shots on goal all game, when that period was, not sure the point?

My point was the stats don't tell the full story. We dominated the first half for sure and should have taken a bigger advantage into the break. But we didn't. Then Leicester score and they were the better team and could have won it. After their goal we struggled to gain any fluidity. That was not the same as City Vs Chelsea. It's a rather generous interpretation of the stats to suggest the comparison is similar.

 

[indospurs]

We need to kill teams off, take our chances especially early doors like the first half. I believe we will grow and be more ruthless, the results-the wins will come

 

[Mulletperm]

We need to kill teams off, take our chances especially early doors like the first half. I believe we will grow and be more ruthless, the results-the wins will come

The way we play we absolutely have to take advantage of the chances we create.

 

[tommysvr]

No need to get so personal against posters. You might disagree with them, that's your right. But equally it's theirs to say what they want without posters going into them two footed and studs up.

This forum is worse for his visits. More than happy with my responses to his over the top negativity.

 

[tommysvr]

I had an opinion on his style of play from very early on and expressed it and continue to express it. I’d rather do that than change every week depending on the result and, believe me, I’d give my left nut and first born to be proven wrong.

You said you think we’ll never win anything with him. That’s writing him off, as we’ve discussed before. You continue to want it both ways, as ever.

 

[tommysvr]

Deano is one of the most reasonable, level headed posters in this place.

I agree. But he said he doubted Ange from the start.

 

[DubaiSpur]

Kane was the absolute master of helping us kill games under Jose and Conte. Get him the ball and wide and you just knew he’d waste 20-30 seconds and then draw a foul.

Absolutely - he used to be able to get it into the corner and hold it there like a master.

That's one element of gamesmanship. But that's not all. We tend to play to the crowd and the occasion, and as far as I can recall, always have done. A truly streetwise side shuts the crowd down, and then shuts them out. We tend to make unnecessary fouls that give the opposition a chance to load the box. Streetwise teams don't do that. We tend to let the opposition have 'easy' wins (a throw in, a shot, a hard tackle, etc.) which gives them momentum back - streetwise sides don't do that.

All of it combines, and is a factor in why the big games (imo) go against us.

 

[DubaiSpur]

This forum is worse for his visits. More than happy with my responses to his over the top negativity.

Oh no, the forum police is here, whatever shall I do?

Baiting you into being outraged is pretty easy - should tell you something about 'over the top' when you're in rabid fights with half the forum whenever someone dares to mildly criticise your golden boy Ange.

 

[tommysvr]

Oh no, the forum police is here, whatever shall I do?

Baiting you into being outraged is pretty easy - should tell you something about 'over the top' when you're in rabid fights with half the forum whenever someone dares to mildly criticise your golden boy Ange.

Yeah mate, exactly right. I only stick up for Ange because he was my choice. I’m sure he feels better knowing I do too.

 

[DubaiSpur]

Yeah mate, exactly right. I only stick up for Ange because he was my choice. I’m sure he feels better knowing I do too.

Glad you've admitted to it - no shame in that.

I myself have freely admitted he was never my choice. That was Poch, and will always be.

But even then, there's quite a bit objectively wrong with his approach that anyone can see. Angrily yelling about how it's all a mirage and Ange is perfect won't save him when his flaws are being demonstrated game after game. Your boy needs to change.

 

[JerusalemMan]

Glad you've admitted to it - no shame in that.

I myself have freely admitted he was never my choice. That was Poch, and will always be.

But even then, there's quite a bit objectively wrong with his approach that anyone can see. Angrily yelling about how it's all a mirage and Ange is perfect won't save him when his flaws are being demonstrated game after game. Your boy needs to change.

Hang on, I think I remember you.
Aren't you the guy who only appears when things haven't gone the way we'd like?

 

[DubaiSpur]

Hang on, I think I remember you.
Aren't you the guy who only appears when things haven't gone the way we'd like?

Yep. Like an apparition, I only appear when things are grim.

Don't remember you at all, but assume we must have argued about ENIC or something - usually what folks who snarl about me tend to be upset about.

 

[thfcsteff]

Glad you've admitted to it - no shame in that.

I myself have freely admitted he was never my choice. That was Poch, and will always be.

But even then, there's quite a bit objectively wrong with his approach that anyone can see. Angrily yelling about how it's all a mirage and Ange is perfect won't save him when his flaws are being demonstrated game after game. Your boy needs to change.

Let me save you some time and ang(e)st. He won't change. What you are effectively asking for is to change 'the boy'.

 

[thfcsteff]

Have not read much other than the last page of posts.

My take on the match?
We obviously need to convert dominance into goals.
We need to take more shots.
We need to not try and 'walk' the ball in.
We are learning that some players still need upgrading for the 'final step up'.

Concedeing the goal was cheap and systemic, but I agree with Raziel, these things will happen (sadly in our case from the same areas). Personally I felt the right-hand side was just 'off' for that goal, Porro looked the obvious 'mark' but Brennan was a bit callow moments earlier, and even in his 'support'.

The only thing I was concerned about was how for 15 minutes after that goal, the midfield basically reverted to 'nervous' type. I personally want one of them to really step up and own these games at those moments; it's easy to conduct an orchestra when everything is in tune, but when the tuba blows a giant bum note and the timpani forgets a part, you have to jump right back on the horse and LEAD -Andre Previn-like- and close the symphony out.

What cheered me up was how Bergvall and Gray instantly restored the verve and tempo, the desire to win/edge second balls, and the appetite to look for opportunities quickly.

I am going to take a guess and say I don't think there's a game (privately) in his tenure here which will have annoyed Ange as much.

We are very, very close to perfecting this style. And again, I think it's relatively futile to wish for him to change his ways. It won't happen, IMO anyway.