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Yves Bissouma

Bishop said:
Bentancur is the only really effective progressive passer of the bunch. Skipp hasnt really demonstrated that range. Hojberg tries but his accuracy and execution is often poor. I'm hoping Bentancur is one of the more used starters due to his passing range. In an ideal world we'd bring in another passer or maybe bring Sarr back from loan as he does seem to have the range and execution.

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According to fbref skipp was better at progressive passes than bentancur last season. Skipp was in the 72nd percentile, bentancur 62nd percentile. Don't know if bentancurs time at juve dragged his stats down though as he might have had a different role or instructions.
 
Lilbaz said:
According to fbref skipp was better at progressive passes than bentancur last season. Skipp was in the 72nd percentile, bentancur 62nd percentile. Don't know if bentancurs time at juve dragged his stats down though as he might have had a different role or instructions.
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That's very interesting as to eye I definitely wouldn't say Skipp was a particularly progressive passer or moreso than Bentancur. Do you recall of it was a percentage of their passes or total volume of progressive passes?

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Bishop said:
That's very interesting as to eye I definitely wouldn't say Skipp was a particularly progressive passer or moreso than Bentancur. Do you recall of it was a percentage of their passes or total volume of progressive passes?

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It was the amount of progressive passes. Although skipp had a better pass accuracy aswell. Bentancur a lot better in other areas though.

https://fbref.com/en/players/6250083a/Oliver-Skipp

https://fbref.com/en/players/3b8674e6/Rodrigo-Bentancur
 
He seems like a bit of a character, hopefully a positive one to have around the dressing rooms. Seems a very good fit for us, I must say! :)

 
Lilbaz said:
According to fbref skipp was better at progressive passes than bentancur last season. Skipp was in the 72nd percentile, bentancur 62nd percentile. Don't know if bentancurs time at juve dragged his stats down though as he might have had a different role or instructions.
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Think it's worth paying attention to how such stats are operationalised.

From fbref on progressive passes: "Completed passes that move the ball towards the opponent's goal at least 10 yards from its furthest point in the last six passes, or any completed pass into the penalty area. Excludes passes from the defending 40% of the pitch.

Skipp scores a 51, just about bang on average for progressive passing distance. Bentancur scores a 58. Operationalised as: "Total distance, in yards, that completed passes have traveled towards the opponent's goal. Note: Passes away from opponent's goal are counted as zero progressive yards."

So who was the better progressive passer last season? I'd say the stats don't tell us that. Too many variables that aren't accounted for. Not enough difference between them to see the stats as significantly different.
 
braineclipse said:
Think it's worth paying attention to how such stats are operationalised.

From fbref on progressive passes: "Completed passes that move the ball towards the opponent's goal at least 10 yards from its furthest point in the last six passes, or any completed pass into the penalty area. Excludes passes from the defending 40% of the pitch.

Skipp scores a 51, just about bang on average for progressive passing distance. Bentancur scores a 58. Operationalised as: "Total distance, in yards, that completed passes have traveled towards the opponent's goal. Note: Passes away from opponent's goal are counted as zero progressive yards."

So who was the better progressive passer last season? I'd say the stats don't tell us that. Too many variables that aren't accounted for. Not enough difference between them to see the stats as significantly different.
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Worth noting that Hojbjerg was in 89th and 93rd percentiles respectively. I’ve always felt that a lot of people underrate his passing.
 
elltrev said:
Worth noting that Hojbjerg was in 89th and 93rd percentiles respectively. I’ve always felt that a lot of people underrate his passing.
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I agree that his passing is somewhat underrated.

Somewhat interesting example of how stats can change over time. 20/21 his numbers were fairly similar (75 and 89). 19/20 season quite a bit lower (61 and 60). Did he get better, or more a result of different team, different role different style of play? I would suggest mostly those latter factors.

Bissoumas progressive passing numbers really are atrocious, on the surface at least. 7 and 25. Sometimes in the thirties in previous seasons, but quite a few lower than 20, even single digits.

Last season at Lille in League 1 he had 89 and 73 though. Easier league with more time and space? Role and team and all that?

I've always seen him as a tidy passer, but may be that he's just mostly been keeping things rather simple and safe with his passing so it hasn't stood out.

To support that it may be style of play i looked at some other Brighton players. According to whoscored his most frequent partners in midfield were Gross (71 and 78) and Moder (40 and 21). But both also played different positions as well as having different roles to Bissouma when in midfield. Lallana is a good progressive passer isn't he? And usually plays deep for them? Meh numbers at best actually (37 and 26).

I think there's a decent argument to be made overall that Bissouma's low numbers are a result of his role and Brighton's style to some degree.

From what I've seen from clips it matches quite well with the stats. Dribble or run with the ball if he can, likes to hold on to the ball a bit. Occasional purposeful forward passes, but mostly easy and safe sideways or backwards.

It will be interesting to see how he does for us if (when) Conte wants him to add more direct forward passes to his game, playing our style. I'm not convinced it's a really natural part of his game, but I think he has the ability to do well enough at it at the very least.
 
braineclipse said:
I agree that his passing is somewhat underrated.

Somewhat interesting example of how stats can change over time. 20/21 his numbers were fairly similar (75 and 89). 19/20 season quite a bit lower (61 and 60). Did he get better, or more a result of different team, different role different style of play? I would suggest mostly those latter factors.

Bissoumas progressive passing numbers really are atrocious, on the surface at least. 7 and 25. Sometimes in the thirties in previous seasons, but quite a few lower than 20, even single digits.

Last season at Lille in League 1 he had 89 and 73 though. Easier league with more time and space? Role and team and all that?

I've always seen him as a tidy passer, but may be that he's just mostly been keeping things rather simple and safe with his passing so it hasn't stood out.

To support that it may be style of play i looked at some other Brighton players. According to whoscored his most frequent partners in midfield were Gross (71 and 78) and Moder (40 and 21). But both also played different positions as well as having different roles to Bissouma when in midfield. Lallana is a good progressive passer isn't he? And usually plays deep for them? Meh numbers at best actually (37 and 26).

I think there's a decent argument to be made overall that Bissouma's low numbers are a result of his role and Brighton's style to some degree.

From what I've seen from clips it matches quite well with the stats. Dribble or run with the ball if he can, likes to hold on to the ball a bit. Occasional purposeful forward passes, but mostly easy and safe sideways or backwards.

It will be interesting to see how he does for us if (when) Conte wants him to add more direct forward passes to his game, playing our style. I'm not convinced it's a really natural part of his game, but I think he has the ability to do well enough at it at the very least.
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That stat needs context.
Dembele would have had atrocious numbers - but he was still an absolute beast at moving the ball from the edge of our area to the opposition's - just not with passing.
 
monkeybarry said:
That stat needs context.
Dembele would have had atrocious numbers - but he was still an absolute hunk of burning love at moving the ball from the edge of our area to the opposition's - just not with passing.
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Indeed, stats have a use but there are those who believe they tell the WHOLE story and they seldom do.
 
parklane1 said:
Indeed, stats have a use but there are those who believe they tell the WHOLE story and they seldom do.
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Watching the player AND looking at stats can help give a fuller picture if you take all the context into account.

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My youngest keeps doing the Bissouma chant in and around the pool where we are this week

she shouts it especially loud when she is cannon-balling into the pool

One proud Dad haha
 
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