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Welcome Ange: To Dare is to Didgeridoo

braineclipse said:
Two fairly attacking teams on the day imo. Even with a back three and two wing backs who defended fairly deep they had Fernandes as one of two central midfielders and "two strikers" (not quite perhaps, but close to it).

Them looking good going forward wasn't just us being vulnerable. They may be "very poor", but imo that doesn't mean they're not a real threat going forward.

Similarly us going with a fairly attacking lineup, even from the starting point of us usually being fairly attacking. Bergvall and Maddison in midfield. Then add us missing our two first choice centre backs. I think we would have looked a lot more solid with VdV and Romero.
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But it’s not turning the tide is it as was suggested.

brick tactics and exposing Ange.
 
Did you watch it. We were wide open and gave away so many clear cut open chances.
I was there, yes we gave away chances but we also had many chances to score a second. When I saw the starting midfield, I feared the worst but I'd guess that in the first half we had over 80% possession. Put Solanke up front and VDV in defence and we will NOT lose to 14 teams in the league...
 
lurker of old said:
Did you watch it. We were wide open and gave away so many clear cut open chances.
I was there, yes we gave away chances but we also had many chances to score a second. When I saw the starting midfield, I feared the worst but I'd guess that in the first half we had over 80% possession. Put Solanke up front and VDV in defence and we will NOT lose to 14 teams in the league...
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We will also never get enough points over a whole season to challenge for anything. The other teams are too good to simply rely on outrunning them.

I think quite a few managers are being given an awakening now with all the injuries, but we're taking it to another level by having almost zero defensive cover when we lose possession.
 
Jordinho said:
We will also never get enough points over a whole season to challenge for anything. The other teams are too good to simply rely on outrunning them.
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Well that's one of the questions

- First is does this system ever allow you to field a fully fit (or close to) team
- Second, at it's best, can you ever be consistent enough playing like this? the two big concerns is until very recently we hadn't won a single PL game by a 1 goal margin but had lost all but 1, by a one goal margin. Translation? either we can't win tight games, we have to be way better than opposition and/or once we aren't playing well, we have no ability to grind out ugly wins.

I don't agree other teams are "too good", I'd actually say the PL is pretty poor right now (this season), and that why quite a few unfancied teams are in top 8 or so.

What neither United or us do is manage the game properly, so we don't become more defensive when opposition has some momentum, this means (said it before), they are more likely to convert on even 5-10 minute spells of game momentum.

I hope we pick up a few more wins, just don't see how this works long term.
 
So if we give Ange these couple of February weeks to get a fit and complete squad back, what would he need to do Mar-May to get fan backing to stay in role for the 25/26 season?

I'm guessing for some of you, you've seen enough already and there's no way back. At the other end of the spectrum there is probably a few of you that will argue that we need to get him the couple of players he needs to complete his squad and let him get on with it next season.

I'm definitely still stuck somewhere in the middle. I'm still feeling that his tactical system may come up short and keep costing us the points that would otherwise eventually get us CL football and cups. That is even with another round of transfers in the summer. I'm not convinced he can keep a squad at prime age healthy either.

Ultimately, I'm looking for Ange to get 4th/5th highest form in the league from Mar to May. I'm also looking for at least semi-final of the EL. However, I will caveat that allowances will be made if he just has bodies on paper but not fully match fit players. That was definitely the case at the weekend.
 
Muttley said:
So if we give Ange these couple of February weeks to get a fit and complete squad back, what would he need to do Mar-May to get fan backing to stay in role for the 25/26 season?

I'm guessing for some of you, you've seen enough already and there's no way back. At the other end of the spectrum there is probably a few of you that will argue that we need to get him the couple of players he needs to complete his squad and let him get on with it next season.

I'm definitely still stuck somewhere in the middle. I'm still feeling that his tactical system may come up short and keep costing us the points that would otherwise eventually get us CL football and cups. That is even with another round of transfers in the summer. I'm not convinced he can keep a squad at prime age healthy either.

Ultimately, I'm looking for Ange to get 4th/5th highest form in the league from Mar to May. I'm also looking for at least semi-final of the EL. However, I will caveat that allowances will be made if he just has bodies on paper but not fully match fit players. That was definitely the case at the weekend.
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He has to make the final of the Europa
Anything can happen in a final and I’ve said since the summer I expect us to win it. But a final is one off so anything can happen. For me he has to get to the final… possible his take the semis because again the draw and home and away nature can swing things
That’s for me anyway
 
Muttley said:
So if we give Ange these couple of February weeks to get a fit and complete squad back, what would he need to do Mar-May to get fan backing to stay in role for the 25/26 season?

I'm guessing for some of you, you've seen enough already and there's no way back. At the other end of the spectrum there is probably a few of you that will argue that we need to get him the couple of players he needs to complete his squad and let him get on with it next season.

I'm definitely still stuck somewhere in the middle. I'm still feeling that his tactical system may come up short and keep costing us the points that would otherwise eventually get us CL football and cups. That is even with another round of transfers in the summer. I'm not convinced he can keep a squad at prime age healthy either.

Ultimately, I'm looking for Ange to get 4th/5th highest form in the league from Mar to May. I'm also looking for at least semi-final of the EL. However, I will caveat that allowances will be made if he just has bodies on paper but not fully match fit players. That was definitely the case at the weekend.
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I don't have a specific event, like I don't need to win the EL or even reach the final. I do need to see some of the really obvious flaws being addressed like the FB overload, I want to see more structure in our play. It needs to feel less kamikaze, I need to see what he intends to do with the right hand side because for me it doesn't work. I need to see Son phased out or used more intelligently. I guess for me it's more of a feeling rather than any one specific thing. I'm fine with him getting until the summer but without these improvements I'd have say he should be fired because he's been given the leeway and the excuses with the injuries but I see issues that are systemic and fundamental to the way he wants to play. So I ultimately need to see adjustments.
 
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Muttley said:
So if we give Ange these couple of February weeks to get a fit and complete squad back, what would he need to do Mar-May to get fan backing to stay in role for the 25/26 season?

I'm guessing for some of you, you've seen enough already and there's no way back. At the other end of the spectrum there is probably a few of you that will argue that we need to get him the couple of players he needs to complete his squad and let him get on with it next season.

I'm definitely still stuck somewhere in the middle. I'm still feeling that his tactical system may come up short and keep costing us the points that would otherwise eventually get us CL football and cups. That is even with another round of transfers in the summer. I'm not convinced he can keep a squad at prime age healthy either.

Ultimately, I'm looking for Ange to get 4th/5th highest form in the league from Mar to May. I'm also looking for at least semi-final of the EL. However, I will caveat that allowances will be made if he just has bodies on paper but not fully match fit players. That was definitely the case at the weekend.
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His players still seem to back him, which of course is a huge thing. I personally lost faith in him being able to win anything with us back in November though, and our form since then, despite all the injuries, have really just cemented that belief. If, however, we can win the EL, I have zero faith in that happening, but if we somehow could pull that miracle out of a hat - he would be an absolute legend, and would automatically get the next season, in my book. If we somehow manage to climb our way into a European spot from where we are now, that would also be very impressive. I think we have had too many "yes, great win, now we need to build on that!" moments this season where we just haven't been able to keep the momentum up. Then the injuries, I don't know why we have so many more of them than other teams, but it's a concern, I think. I can't remember us ever having as much injuries as we've had under Ange. It surely can't just be bad luck or us playing many games (all the european qualified teams play as many games as us). Then again, who knows, maybe we've just been very unlucky.
 
Baleforce said:
I think not qualifying through Europe through league position, at all, let alone not qualifying for the CL, is a major disaster.

He had a good fudging go at getting us relegated this year, no way he's allowed another crack at it.
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This is why people like you are the problem. You leave no room in between “Huge Success” and “Major Disaster.” It’s not even fudging March yet, how could a season be a disaster with so long left?

Premier League: 12th with 13 games to go
FA Cup: 4th Round (we haven’t got past Round 5 since 2018)
Carabao Cup: semi finals
Europa League: still very much in it

If you think that’s a major disaster…then Jesus Christ, no wonder you’re always so fudging miserable on here.
 
tommysvr said:
This is why people like you are the problem. You leave no room in between “Huge Success” and “Major Disaster.” It’s not even fudging March yet, how could a season be a disaster with so long left?

Premier League: 12th with 13 games to go
FA Cup: 4th Round (we haven’t got past Round 5 since 2018)
Carabao Cup: semi finals
Europa League: still very much in it

If you think that’s a major disaster…then Jesus Christ, no wonder you’re always so fudging miserable on here.
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It’s all about the league position.

I consider playing so many stupid domestic cup games a failure as well.

We’ve been smashed by every half competent team we’ve faced for months, so we won’t be in the Europa League much longer either.

We are a complete mess tactically, we give up more chances in a game than decent sides give up in a month.

He is massively out of his depth and needs to go as soon as possible.
 
Muttley said:
So if we give Ange these couple of February weeks to get a fit and complete squad back, what would he need to do Mar-May to get fan backing to stay in role for the 25/26 season?

I'm guessing for some of you, you've seen enough already and there's no way back. At the other end of the spectrum there is probably a few of you that will argue that we need to get him the couple of players he needs to complete his squad and let him get on with it next season.

I'm definitely still stuck somewhere in the middle. I'm still feeling that his tactical system may come up short and keep costing us the points that would otherwise eventually get us CL football and cups. That is even with another round of transfers in the summer. I'm not convinced he can keep a squad at prime age healthy either.

Ultimately, I'm looking for Ange to get 4th/5th highest form in the league from Mar to May. I'm also looking for at least semi-final of the EL. However, I will caveat that allowances will be made if he just has bodies on paper but not fully match fit players. That was definitely the case at the weekend.
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Only way he stays for me is if he wins the Europa. And that’s not because I believe it’ll be the right choice but it’d be a bit crazy to stick with him through these few months and sack him if wins something.

I don’t see it happening though. IMO, we’ll be patchy until the end of the season regardless of who plays. There is too much evidence and logic for me that says Ange just doesn’t cut it at this level.
 
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