Welcome Ange: To Dare is to Didgeridoo

[braineclipse]

I think we need to be confident of where we are with the manager come the end of this season if we are going to continue in to next season with him - i really don't want to be changing managers mid season so if we have doubts after 2 full seasons then there's a decision that needs to be made imv

Difficult to see a scenario where there aren't any doubts come the summer?

I think we need to see a somewhat regular return to good/great performances and some real signs of consistency at some point this season. Unless injuries continue to plague us to a ridiculous extent.

The risk is to become the next Man United. They make a lot of money even without Champions League football but that somehow translated into a complete disregard for results and performances. Sure, they go through the motions and still sack the manager every now and then but the sad truth for them is that they are a top six side in name only, and haven't been for a long time.

There's a fine line between 'long term planning' and 'don't bother me while I'm counting my profits'. And while some of Postecoglou's critics have been slightly over the top, I think it's a good thing not to be satisfied with our place in world football.

Much of what's been going on at United hasn't been long term planning. It's been here and now, get some players for this manager.

I think we have a really sound long term plan in place now. And I'm assuming that if Ange is replaced at some point in the next couple of years the plan will be to bring in someone with a similar enough playing style that we won't need big changes to the squad.

I think we're assembling a squad now that could work well with quite a few attack minded high pressing style managers.

As long as there's still progress on that long term plan and we're moving in a direction that whatever happens Ange's successor will inherit a stronger squad than we had a year earlier we're going to be alright.

 

[P.D.]

I think the only way Ange gets sacked this season is if people stop attending games and our income materially goes down, that's the type of thing that will worry Levy more than performances at the moment. Otherwise I think he'll review things in the summer.

 

[veryoldspur]

Difficult to see a scenario where there aren't any doubts come the summer?

I think we need to see a somewhat regular return to good/great performances and some real signs of consistency at some point this season. Unless injuries continue to plague us to a ridiculous extent.

Much of what's been going on at United hasn't been long term planning. It's been here and now, get some players for this manager.

I think we have a really sound long term plan in place now. And I'm assuming that if Ange is replaced at some point in the next couple of years the plan will be to bring in someone with a similar enough playing style that we won't need big changes to the squad.

I think we're assembling a squad now that could work well with quite a few attack minded high pressing style managers.

As long as there's still progress on that long term plan and we're moving in a direction that whatever happens Ange's successor will inherit a stronger squad than we had a year earlier we're going to be alright.

I predict the injuries will continue, as our style of play and training is a major factor. As we get one back another will get injured. I'm as certain as I can be Ange will be gone by the end of the season, probably Easter, and we will bring in a manager from Europe few of us know anything about. I also predict that Levy will continue to sign average players in order we can ship out some other average players.

As much as I think Ange is hopeless, I realise we won't win anything as long as we have Levy at the top. Not only does he keep a tight hand on the purse strings, he simply doesn't have a winning mentality, and this feeds down. All I actually ask is that we are competitive, and win more games than we lose, which is something we haven't done since the first ten games of last season, regardless of injuries.

 

[veryoldspur]

I think the only way Ange gets sacked this season is if people stop attending games and our income materially goes down, that's the type of thing that will worry Levy more than performances at the moment. Otherwise I think he'll review things in the summer.

There were lots of empty seats against Saudi Sportswashing Machine, but they were probably season ticket holders seats, which have already been paid for. I know a fair few people who are refusing to attend games until Ange goes

 

[metalgear]

Money from Europe is important to Levy too. I predict if Ange doesn't make it he gets the sack

I think the only way Ange gets sacked this season is if people stop attending games and our income materially goes down, that's the type of thing that will worry Levy more than performances at the moment. Otherwise I think he'll review things in the summer.

 

[veryoldspur]

Money from Europe is important to Levy too. I predict if Ange doesn't make it he gets the sack

You are right, it's no good talking about the long term and projects etc, the club wants to make money, and losing game after game will certainly have an effect on revenue

 

[braineclipse]

I predict the injuries will continue, as our style of play and training is a major factor. As we get one back another will get injured. I'm as certain as I can be Ange will be gone by the end of the season, probably Easter, and we will bring in a manager from Europe few of us know anything about. I also predict that Levy will continue to sign average players in order we can ship out some other average players.

As much as I think Ange is hopeless, I realise we won't win anything as long as we have Levy at the top. Not only does he keep a tight hand on the purse strings, he simply doesn't have a winning mentality, and this feeds down. All I actually ask is that we are competitive, and win more games than we lose, which is something we haven't done since the first ten games of last season, regardless of injuries.

I think significant injury problems breed more injuries. Fewer options for rest and rotation and more fatigue in the squad. More injuries are certainly a possibility.

I don't think we've been signing mainly average players in recent years. That's more been the exception to the rule and mostly cheaper options. We've spent quite a lot of transfer fees for quite a while now. Levy still rules he purse strings, but apart from Chelsea outspending everyone we've been up there recently.

Will be interesting to see how many of your predictions come true.

 

[metalgear]

I think significant injury problems breed more injuries. Fewer options for rest and rotation and more fatigue in the squad. More injuries are certainly a possibility.

I don't think we've been signing mainly average players in recent years. That's more been the exception to the rule and mostly cheaper options. We've spent quite a lot of transfer fees for quite a while now. Levy still rules he purse strings, but apart from Chelsea outspending everyone we've been up there recently.

Will be interesting to see how many of your predictions come true.

well the logical thing to do is to change the tactics and gameplan when a team goes through an injury crisis.
no excuse for the coach to keep going as if nothing has changed

 

[braineclipse]

well the logical thing to do is to change the tactics and gameplan when a team goes through an injury crisis.
no excuse for the coach to keep going as if nothing has changed

I think that's one logical thing to do. But imo there are also other logical things to do including what Ange is seemingly doing.

 

[Muttley]

I think that's one logical thing to do. But imo there are also other logical things to do including what Ange is seemingly doing.

I'm just not sure some fans are buying into the "what doesn't kill you, makes you stronger" argument.

For me, Saturday's game was as strong an endorsement I've seen for not pulling the trigger too early. That was some feat standing up to the in-form PL team and going toe to toe with them. It moved the Ange needle in his favour, despite the result.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

well the logical thing to do is to change the tactics and gameplan when a team goes through an injury crisis.
no excuse for the coach to keep going as if nothing has changed

But he may not have the players to change things

 

[braineclipse]

I'm just not sure some fans are buying into the "what doesn't kill you, makes you stronger" argument.

For me, Saturday's game was as strong an endorsement I've seen for not pulling the trigger too early. That was some feat standing up to the in-form PL team and going toe to toe with them. It moved the Ange needle in his favour, despite the result.

I'm not sure it quite boils down to what doesn't kill you makes you stronger, but I get what you're saying I think. Personally not a fan of that expression. But there are some underlying issues there with some younger players needing game time to properly be part of the squad going forward and some mentality issues where I think this kind of situation can provide some good learning and development situations for.

I agree, it was a good performance in the circumstances. Think for once having a week between games helped. Will be interesting to see if that is something that can also help us going into the Liverpool game.

Games will come quick and fast again. At least a chance to rotate against Tamworth.

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

If you not interested in it just don't reply, it's not rocket science

Was a joke mate.

I did similar last week and the Mods merged the thread in their high handiness. You will now join me on a watch list that is impossible to get off. Any small infraction you make will see you banished, banished I tell ye.

 

[Mikey10]

I think we need to be confident of where we are with the manager come the end of this season if we are going to continue in to next season with him - i really don't want to be changing managers mid season so if we have doubts after 2 full seasons then there's a decision that needs to be made imv

Absolutely spot on.

 

[Mr Gogolak]

Much of what's been going on at United hasn't been long term planning. It's been here and now, get some players for this manager.

I think we have a really sound long term plan in place now. And I'm assuming that if Ange is replaced at some point in the next couple of years the plan will be to bring in someone with a similar enough playing style that we won't need big changes to the squad.

I think we're assembling a squad now that could work well with quite a few attack minded high pressing style managers.

As long as there's still progress on that long term plan and we're moving in a direction that whatever happens Ange's successor will inherit a stronger squad than we had a year earlier we're going to be alright.

No, it hasn't but if they'd called it for what it is, I expect there would have been a riot. I just googled 'Manchester United long term planning' and the first hit I got was: Manchester United a 'long-term' project for Ten Hag. No comment.

Bar maybe for Emirates Marketing Project, all clubs claim they have a long term project. The further away from the top a club is, the more ambitious (and the more long term) the project. Some of them are genuine: I'd stay our stature has changed since ENIC bought the club; others... not so much.

 

[treepits]

OK, I've made it clear I would like to see the back of him ASAP, but respect most on here are behind him. That said, I can't believe there isn't a point you will all change your minds. Is it when we drop to 14th, is it when we get knocked out of all three cups, or taking things to the extreme, is it when we are in the bottom three. Just like to know?

For me it shouldn’t be a question until the summer, and even then personally I’d be reluctant to sack him. As others have said though, the caveat being if he loses the dressing room which makes his position untenable. Think he’s nowhere near that though

 

[Bishop]

Good reply and more or less what I'm thinking - My overriding point being, ever since I heard Levy's statement when Ange was appointed (can't remember the specifics but it alluded to appointing Ange for the long term) it really gave me the impression that Conte was the straw that broke the camels back and he had come to accept his mistakes and realise the club we are and where we are at, we need a true rebuilding period in which will involve the manager being given real time to develop an overall young squad. In a weird way, I wanted to see us have a period like this - a real tough period in which it would be to an extent justifiable to get rid of Ange (although I would very much disagree with it) and see if Levy genuinely meant what he said in giving this guy the reigns or if its just another case of chopping and changing as soon as the going gets tough which it inevitably will do at some point at this club.

Of course, if we get our players back fit and healthy and our form continues like this and we nosedive towards the relegation area ( I don't see it personally) then of course this will become a very different conversation. But much of what Ange has done, and has got criticism for is for the long term and because Levy is happy for him to look at the long term - For me, barring a disaster Ange will get this season and at least the start of next to get us back up there but that is obviously just my own uninformed opinion.....

I think this has been a conversation that I've seen in a lot of Levy doubter circles, not so much on here because this board is largely very positive about the man in overall charge. If Levy is willing to keep Ange even at the first sign of trouble that's a promising sign. It even suggests we can really get behind Ange because the club is willing to back him through thick and thin, something they haven't been prepared to do for any manager previously.

 

[thfcsteff]

There were lots of empty seats against Saudi Sportswashing Machine, but they were probably season ticket holders seats, which have already been paid for. I know a fair few people who are refusing to attend games until Ange goes

OIne thing which will be triggering the board are those empty seats. Newcash might've been the time, but I'd say that tomorrow's SF going to general sale (and ewith a lot available as I understand) will be worrying to them...

 

[Baleforce]

OIne thing which will be triggering the board are those empty seats. Newcash might've been the time, but I'd say that tomorrow's SF going to general sale (and ewith a lot available as I understand) will be worrying to them...

Nah, its only the league cup, terrible weather, after Christmas when everyone is broke, and we're likely gonna get smashed.

On Bonesaw FC, doesn't really matter if seats are empty if they are paid for.

 

[Bullet]

Some of you are looking at this backwards; you ask if Levy will sack Ange, due to results.

But instead, think about it as:

Levy/Munn/Lange decided to spend a LOT of money on kids.
They expected that those kids won't have much impact this year.
A decent impact the year after.
Big impact moving forwards.

So they need a special type of manager that is happy to work with those circumstances this year and not moan publicly like Conte/Mourinho would. Levy does not want drama from the manager.

And that is what Ange brings, Ange is fully signed up to this idea of buying kids and waiting out this year and then having higher expectations next season and the season after.

Ange is keeping all of the players on board. He is keeping the press on board. He is keeping 75% of the fans on board, even with a massive injury crisis.

Ange knows it is very unlikely to be "Ange himself" that benefits from these kids maturing.
So Ange is riding out these years, getting a huge salary, doing his dream job, and at some point will probably move on.

But Levy/Munn/Lange know that Ange is the right type to see this to stage 2a and stage 2b etc.