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Welcome Ange: To Dare is to Didgeridoo

Mikey10 said:
I’m not sure I’d set any great store by this. It’ll obviously come down to results. The old vote of confidence has been followed by a pretty swift exit on very many occasions. He needs to start picking up points, and further progress in the cups would obviously help his position a lot.
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Think the first target is to reach 40pts.

We might still not have that by April.

We've got 9 league games until we hit April (4H 5A)
 
Mikey10 said:
I’m not sure I’d set any great store by this. It’ll obviously come down to results. The old vote of confidence has been followed by a pretty swift exit on very many occasions. He needs to start picking up points, and further progress in the cups would obviously help his position a lot.
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It's the right PR move and the club rightfully has to give some context to the squad challenges

That said, I'm aligned, lose 6-3 again at home to Liverpool and get beaten by Scum right after and he'd be in deep trouble again.
 
Mikey10 said:
I’m not sure I’d set any great store by this. It’ll obviously come down to results. The old vote of confidence has been followed by a pretty swift exit on very many occasions. He needs to start picking up points, and further progress in the cups would obviously help his position a lot.
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If it was all about results Levy would have sacked him by now, how many times in recent years has Levy allowed a manager get to 12th place after just over half the season gone? Levy alluded from the beginning this was long term with Ange, and it's likely after various failures and a rebuild in place the penny has finally dropped that he needs to give the man in charge more time....
 
harr1984 said:
If it was all about results Levy would have sacked him by now, how many times in recent years has Levy allowed a manager get to 12th place after just over half the season gone? Levy alluded from the beginning this was long term with Ange, and it's likely after various failures and a rebuild in place the penny has finally dropped that he needs to give the man in charge more time....
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The answer is 2008. It's more like the club's situation has changed. What most people miss in the manager/club/investment/owner conversation is Spurs has not been the same club over the 23+ years ENIC has owned it.

With current revenue stream, making CL isn't as critical as it used to be (it's helpful, important but it's not the only thing), when we had a 33K stadium and massive income disparity to everyone else in top 6, it was critical not to have a throwaway season. We didn't spend as much when stadium was being built and through a little part of Covid, but we spend now (again).

Said it a few times, when the club, Levy, Munn, Lange and Ange sat down and agreed to spend a significant amount of our budget on Gray, Bergvall, Yang, Vuskovich, Wilson, etc, there had to be an acknowledgement that those were realistically not going to make the biggest impact this season, those investments (along with others like Udogie, VDV, Sarr) would likely pay off next season or even season after.

So reality is none of us know what the measurement was this season, was it match/better last season or was it continue refresh and build team/system to push more in future years (still try this year?).

Regardless, the current form is probably in the unacceptable and only allowed due to circumstance.
 
Raziel said:
The answer is 2008. It's more like the club's situation has changed. What most people miss in the manager/club/investment/owner conversation is Spurs has not been the same club over the 23+ years ENIC has owned it.

With current revenue stream, making CL isn't as critical as it used to be (it's helpful, important but it's not the only thing), when we had a 33K stadium and massive income disparity to everyone else in top 6, it was critical not to have a throwaway season. We didn't spend as much when stadium was being built and through a little part of Covid, but we spend now (again).

Said it a few times, when the club, Levy, Munn, Lange and Ange sat down and agreed to spend a significant amount of our budget on Gray, Bergvall, Yang, Vuskovich, Wilson, etc, there had to be an acknowledgement that those were realistically not going to make the biggest impact this season, those investments (along with others like Udogie, VDV, Sarr) would likely pay off next season or even season after.

So reality is none of us know what the measurement was this season, was it match/better last season or was it continue refresh and build team/system to push more in future years (still try this year?).

Regardless, the current form is probably in the unacceptable and only allowed due to circumstance.
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And I think the big factor here which is largely ignored is that one man above all others would agree heartily; Ange Postecoglu. If he doesn't then that would be a bad thing. But everything suggests he agrees.
 
Raziel said:
The answer is 2008. It's more like the club's situation has changed. What most people miss in the manager/club/investment/owner conversation is Spurs has not been the same club over the 23+ years ENIC has owned it.

With current revenue stream, making CL isn't as critical as it used to be (it's helpful, important but it's not the only thing), when we had a 33K stadium and massive income disparity to everyone else in top 6, it was critical not to have a throwaway season. We didn't spend as much when stadium was being built and through a little part of Covid, but we spend now (again).

Said it a few times, when the club, Levy, Munn, Lange and Ange sat down and agreed to spend a significant amount of our budget on Gray, Bergvall, Yang, Vuskovich, Wilson, etc, there had to be an acknowledgement that those were realistically not going to make the biggest impact this season, those investments (along with others like Udogie, VDV, Sarr) would likely pay off next season or even season after.

So reality is none of us know what the measurement was this season, was it match/better last season or was it continue refresh and build team/system to push more in future years (still try this year?).

Regardless, the current form is probably in the unacceptable and only allowed due to circumstance.
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Good reply and more or less what I'm thinking - My overriding point being, ever since I heard Levy's statement when Ange was appointed (can't remember the specifics but it alluded to appointing Ange for the long term) it really gave me the impression that Conte was the straw that broke the camels back and he had come to accept his mistakes and realise the club we are and where we are at, we need a true rebuilding period in which will involve the manager being given real time to develop an overall young squad. In a weird way, I wanted to see us have a period like this - a real tough period in which it would be to an extent justifiable to get rid of Ange (although I would very much disagree with it) and see if Levy genuinely meant what he said in giving this guy the reigns or if its just another case of chopping and changing as soon as the going gets tough which it inevitably will do at some point at this club.

Of course, if we get our players back fit and healthy and our form continues like this and we nosedive towards the relegation area ( I don't see it personally) then of course this will become a very different conversation. But much of what Ange has done, and has got criticism for is for the long term and because Levy is happy for him to look at the long term - For me, barring a disaster Ange will get this season and at least the start of next to get us back up there but that is obviously just my own uninformed opinion.....
 
harr1984 said:
For me, barring a disaster Ange will get this season and at least the start of next to get us back up there but that is obviously just my own uninformed opinion.....
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I think we need to be confident of where we are with the manager come the end of this season if we are going to continue in to next season with him - i really don't want to be changing managers mid season so if we have doubts after 2 full seasons then there's a decision that needs to be made imv
 
Raziel said:
The answer is 2008. It's more like the club's situation has changed. What most people miss in the manager/club/investment/owner conversation is Spurs has not been the same club over the 23+ years ENIC has owned it.

With current revenue stream, making CL isn't as critical as it used to be (it's helpful, important but it's not the only thing), when we had a 33K stadium and massive income disparity to everyone else in top 6, it was critical not to have a throwaway season. We didn't spend as much when stadium was being built and through a little part of Covid, but we spend now (again).

Said it a few times, when the club, Levy, Munn, Lange and Ange sat down and agreed to spend a significant amount of our budget on Gray, Bergvall, Yang, Vuskovich, Wilson, etc, there had to be an acknowledgement that those were realistically not going to make the biggest impact this season, those investments (along with others like Udogie, VDV, Sarr) would likely pay off next season or even season after.

So reality is none of us know what the measurement was this season, was it match/better last season or was it continue refresh and build team/system to push more in future years (still try this year?).

Regardless, the current form is probably in the unacceptable and only allowed due to circumstance.
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The risk is to become the next Man United. They make a lot of money even without Champions League football but that somehow translated into a complete disregard for results and performances. Sure, they go through the motions and still sack the manager every now and then but the sad truth for them is that they are a top six side in name only, and haven't been for a long time.

There's a fine line between 'long term planning' and 'don't bother me while I'm counting my profits'. And while some of Postecoglou's critics have been slightly over the top, I think it's a good thing not to be satisfied with our place in world football.
 
billyiddo said:
I think we need to be confident of where we are with the manager come the end of this season if we are going to continue in to next season with him - i really don't want to be changing managers mid season so if we have doubts after 2 full seasons then there's a decision that needs to be made imv
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In an ideal world, I think you're right.

The problem is, whilst we keep accumulating data on Ange through this injury ravaged period, it's not quite the same as seeing him operating with most of his squad fit again. Right now, we're down to 6 injured. 4 of them are part of our best back 5. Arguably Odobert would be involved in every single game as well. Then there is the assimilation of new January signings.

So based on what I'm thinking, we have Jan and Feb to ride out before we're back to seeing Ange operate fully stacked again. That leaves 3 months to complete this assessment and make a big decision on him. That is, without more injuries and assuming these player can get back to 100%.

More realistically, because we don't get that ideal world scenario, Ange gets to start next season and go again.
 
OK, I've made it clear I would like to see the back of him ASAP, but respect most on here are behind him. That said, I can't believe there isn't a point you will all change your minds. Is it when we drop to 14th, is it when we get knocked out of all three cups, or taking things to the extreme, is it when we are in the bottom three. Just like to know?
 
There isn't a specific mark for me. If we don't start getting results when/if we get the full squad back, then there would be reason to try a new manager next season.

But let me stress this, even when we get injured players back, that doesn't mean everything will run smooth, because even then, we will be forced to play players that should have been rested, so we'll still be at a disadvantage, but results should pick up. In my view, he should be here next season. at least see how we are at this point next season.
 
Kandi1977 said:
There isn't a specific mark for me. If we don't start getting results when/if we get the full squad back, then there would be reason to try a new manager next season.

But let me stress this, even when we get injured players back, that doesn't mean everything will run smooth, because even then, we will be forced to play players that should have been rested, so we'll still be at a disadvantage, but results should pick up. In my view, he should be here next season. at least see how we are at this point next season.
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Essentially this for me too.

Or if he loses ye dressing room.
 
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