Tottenham Hotspur Stadium - Licence To Stand

[jaysea67]

Re: Northumberland Development Project

Easily!

Hopefully the pitch size will be larger than the present one. I would think just widening and lenthening the stadium a few metres would add a couple of thousand more seats.+ another metre or two in height would easily boost the capacity a few more thousand without changing the general design!

75k will do nicely........

The pitch size will be 105 x 68m (which is the UEFA standard) compared to the existing dimensions of 100 x 67m.

 

[Notmegov]

The pitch size will be 105 x 68m (which is the UEFA standard) compared to the existing dimensions of 100 x 67m.

That's a extra 440 sqm thats alot of extra room, making it the same size as Old Trafford.

Sent from my GT-N8010 using Fapatalk 4

 

[jimmyb]

Re: Northumberland Development Project

The common figure quoted for the cost of the NDP seems to be £450 million. However this cost includes the development in it's entirety including cost of the land purchased, costs of planning and all 3 phases of the proposed development. The land and planning costs have already been capitalised and one would assume that the supermarket and residential development costs would both be self financing (and indeed profit making). I believe that the stadium only cost of the Emirates was quoted as being £250 million and we have estimated that our stadium costs will be similar (a smaller footprint but higher quality finish apparently).

That £250 million is therefore likely to be the amount we have to raise in funding to get this thing built. So let's do the sums on that making some assumptions and using over simplified economics....

A (punitive) interest rate of 7% would mean approx £17.5 million interest per year.
If we assume the minimum of 19 games then we would have to make an additional £920,000 per match to pay that interest.
Now let's assume we average 53,000 of the 56,000 capacity. We would be selling an extra 17,000 tickets.
In order to make our interest payments each year we would have to sell those extra 17,000 tickets for an average of £54 each. When you consider the additional huge ramp up in corporate seats this will be easy to achieve.
Each additional match that we play above the minimum of 19 then results in another £1 million or so of revenue for the club.
Therefore even using these rough figures and estimating conservatively the stadium more than pays it's own way.

Now consider an (again conservative) estimate of a stadium naming rights deal of £150 million. That would only leave £100 million of additional funding to find. If we use the same figures and rates as above that's only £7 million of interest per year - against (an again conservative) £1 million of additional revenue per game. Interest paid and £12 million of additional revenue per season - effectively this would allow THFC to pay back the £100 million loan in less than 7 years.

Now if we apply more realistic figures....

We can probably realistically expect to play 23 home games per season. We can probably also reasonably expect ticket income to generate an average somewhere north of an additional £1.5 million from each home game compared to WHL. That is £34.5 million of additional revenue per season. Of course this number blows up even further in the event of the club participating in the Champions League. Of course none of the above factors in that the new stadium will cost more to staff, maintain, etc, but against that a higher capacity will also generate more in terms of non match ticket related revenue and there is also the possibility of hosting additional events (internationals, friendlies, concerts, etc).

From the sorts of numbers above it is clear that the stadium works as a financial project even with no naming rights sponsor. A good naming rights deal will simply be the icing on the cake!

The importance of a naming rights deal isn't merely that it provides additional income to help pay off the debt.

It's that it provides guaranteed additional income.

That's crucial when you're looking to take on huge debt. The additional income from ticket and corporate sales cannot be assumed, even if it is likely. Banks will not lend on the assumption, at least. The advantage of a naming rights deal is that, because the income is guaranteed by the terms of the contract, banks can be certain that it will be received. It can therefore be ring fenced and budgeted exclusively to service and pay off the debt. Yes, there is a remote possibility that the sponsor company could go bust during the contract period but my guess is that Spurs would be insured against that eventuality. So the income would be guaranteed one way or another.

 

[Denmark Spur]

Re: Northumberland Development Project

Edmonton on coys:

The redesign isn't about capacity, we could get 60k in the previous design, not the 56k we got planning permission for.
Size is about the right balance of demand and supply.
The scum could have gone up to 80k but at that size current season ticket holders would have known they had an excellent chance of being able to pick and choose their games and wouldn't buy season tickets, thus starving the scum of all the upfront cash from ST sales plus having tiny crowds/gate receipts for minor teams. They judged 60k was right for them and their new fans and seem to have got it about right.
DL and those around him have been undecided on 50k, 55k or 60k for 10 years.
My guess is we will start at the 56k and go to 60k if the demand is there and at a time the Council are being more reasonable.

It was an answer to the following question:

Hm, I wonder how the alleged increased height, increased capacity and steepness of the stands correlate.

 

[indianspur]

Re: Northumberland Development Project

"DL and those around him have been undecided on 50k, 55k or 60k for 10 years."

10 years, and it seems they still havent made a final decision

 

[Jordinho]

Re: Northumberland Development Project

"DL and those around him have been undecided on 50k, 55k or 60k for 10 years."

10 years, and it seems they still havent made a final decision

10 years ago 50k might have been sufficient, but the demand will increase if we are successful. 56K shouldn't be a problem to fill, but every additional 1K requires us to be doing better and better. They might be a little unsure what our true level is. If we hit a bad patch and finish 7th/8th or even lower a couple of seasons, then what?

A title winning scum could probably fill 70-75K, s****ing into 4th don't.

 

[indianspur]

Re: Northumberland Development Project

10 years ago 50k might have been sufficient, but the demand will increase if we are successful. 56K shouldn't be a problem to fill, but every additional 1K requires us to be doing better and better. They might be a little unsure what our true level is. If we hit a bad patch and finish 7th/8th or even lower a couple of seasons, then what?

A title winning scum could probably fill 70-75K, s****ing into 4th don't.

whenever there is a shortfall in sold tickets, offer them for a tenner to kids, under 16s......get the next generation in.

 

[Finney Is Back]

Re: Northumberland Development Project

The importance of a naming rights deal isn't merely that it provides additional income to help pay off the debt.

It's that it provides guaranteed additional income.

That's crucial when you're looking to take on huge debt. The additional income from ticket and corporate sales cannot be assumed, even if it is likely. Banks will not lend on the assumption, at least. The advantage of a naming rights deal is that, because the income is guaranteed by the terms of the contract, banks can be certain that it will be received. It can therefore be ring fenced and budgeted exclusively to service and pay off the debt. Yes, there is a remote possibility that the sponsor company could go bust during the contract period but my guess is that Spurs would be insured against that eventuality. So the income would be guaranteed one way or another.

Jimbo,

I was never suggesting that we should build the stadium anyway without a naming rights sponsor in place. I was just trying to get across the fact that the stadium should still be a viable option even without this funding stream and that I am hoping that we are not pushing for unrealisatic amounts on that front causing the stadium to be further and further delayed.

In terms of the sponsor going bust - yes I would imagine that we would take out CDS' trades to cover that possibility (as I would imagine that we also did against (for example) Real Madrid's future installments of the Bale fee)

To talk further about funding the stadium. I hope that the owners are creative with the avenues they explore. For example it would seem to me that there would be a lot of mileage in administering a retail bond. This could pay a set amount of interest (say 3 or 4%) plus a further (say) 2 to 3% in club rewards that could then be exchanged for merchandise/stadium tours/discounted tickets/etc.

 

[spurs' magna carter]

Re: Northumberland Development Project

The redesign isn't about capacity, we could get 60k in the previous design, not the 56k we got planning permission for.

Doesn't surprise me at all tbh, I think we've been a bit guilty of clutching at straws which is understandable.

The redesign must then be about 'fan experiance' and how best to squeeze the corporates for as much money as possible, shame but what can can ya do?

 

[jimmyb]

Re: Northumberland Development Project

Jimbo,

I was never suggesting that we should build the stadium anyway without a naming rights sponsor in place. I was just trying to get across the fact that the stadium should still be a viable option even without this funding stream and that I am hoping that we are not pushing for unrealisatic amounts on that front causing the stadium to be further and further delayed.

In terms of the sponsor going bust - yes I would imagine that we would take out CDS' trades to cover that possibility (as I would imagine that we also did against (for example) Real Madrid's future installments of the Bale fee)

To talk further about funding the stadium. I hope that the owners are creative with the avenues they explore. For example it would seem to me that there would be a lot of mileage in administering a retail bond. This could pay a set amount of interest (say 3 or 4%) plus a further (say) 2 to 3% in club rewards that could then be exchanged for merchandise/stadium tours/discounted tickets/etc.

Mate, I probably didn't make myself clear. My post wasn't a critique of yours. I know that you are really clued up on all of this so my post was really only adding further clarification. It was for the benefit of those who don't follow this as closely as we do and who, perhaps, don't take such in interest in financial matters but who would still like to understand what might be going on behind the scenes.

I would imagine, by the way, that Levy is pushing right at the very edge of realistic for stadium naming rights!

Certainly, it will be interesting to see the funding breakdown, if it's ever made public.

 

[braineclipse]

Re: Northumberland Development Project

"DL and those around him have been undecided on 50k, 55k or 60k for 10 years."

10 years, and it seems they still havent made a final decision

If true, what's wrong with keeping your options open until the final decision has to be made?

 

[spurs' magna carter]

Re: Northumberland Development Project

Completely off topic but might as well post here.

Pictured: Emirates Marketing Project stadium expansion plans revealed

These dramatic images, obtained by the M.E.N., show both ends of the Blues home lifted to accommodate an extra tier.

This is how the Etihad Stadium could look - if Blues bosses get the green light for an expected 13,500-expansion.

These dramatic images, obtained by the M.E.N., show both ends of the Blues home lifted to accommodate an extra tier.

The M.E.N. understands City bosses will apply for planning permission to Manchester council, who own the former City of Manchester Stadium, next month.

If all goes according to plan work could start as early as February - although Blues officials have stressed any plans will not affect current season card holders.

The proposals would see the stadium's capacity shift from 48,000 to around 61,500 making it the second-largest venue in domestic football.

City are offering their 36,000 season card holders the opportunity to buy up to four more season cards.

Members of the club's Blue scheme will also be invited to apply.

Officials will then gauge levels of interest before deciding to extend one or both ends of the stadium, which was built for the 2002 Commonwealth Games although permission will be sought for both.

One source said: "It has to be commercially viable."

A glossy leaflet to be sent to fans reads: "Opportunities like this only happen once in a blue moon."

It added: "As the team grows, our fanbase grows and our home has to grow."

Season card holders will also be offered the chance to move from their existing seats.

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co...anchester-city-etihad-expansion-plans-6170099



So, that's our hope of the PL's 2 largest stadium dashed, if they weren't already.

 

[Spur of the moment]

Re: Northumberland Development Project

Completely off topic but might as well post here.

Pictured: Emirates Marketing Project stadium expansion plans revealed

These dramatic images, obtained by the M.E.N., show both ends of the Blues home lifted to accommodate an extra tier.

This is how the Etihad Stadium could look - if Blues bosses get the green light for an expected 13,500-expansion.

These dramatic images, obtained by the M.E.N., show both ends of the Blues home lifted to accommodate an extra tier.

The M.E.N. understands City bosses will apply for planning permission to Manchester council, who own the former City of Manchester Stadium, next month.

If all goes according to plan work could start as early as February - although Blues officials have stressed any plans will not affect current season card holders.

The proposals would see the stadium's capacity shift from 48,000 to around 61,500 making it the second-largest venue in domestic football.

City are offering their 36,000 season card holders the opportunity to buy up to four more season cards.

Members of the club's Blue scheme will also be invited to apply.

Officials will then gauge levels of interest before deciding to extend one or both ends of the stadium, which was built for the 2002 Commonwealth Games although permission will be sought for both.

One source said: "It has to be commercially viable."

A glossy leaflet to be sent to fans reads: "Opportunities like this only happen once in a blue moon."

It added: "As the team grows, our fanbase grows and our home has to grow."

Season card holders will also be offered the chance to move from their existing seats.

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co...anchester-city-etihad-expansion-plans-6170099



So, that's our hope of the PL's 2 largest stadium dashed, if they weren't already.

Not necessarily.

 

[scaramanga]

Re: Northumberland Development Project

Not necessarily.

WTF makes them think they'll even get close to selling out an increased capacity when their stadium is already twice the size of their fanbase?

Add in some daytrippers and for all but the biggest matches you're still well short of 48K let alone anything more.

 

[Dicko]

Re: Northumberland Development Project

WTF makes them think they'll even get close to selling out an increased capacity when their stadium is already twice the size of their fanbase?

Add in some daytrippers and for all but the biggest matches you're still well short of 48K let alone anything more.

There's probably a whole generation of glory hunting schoolkids that have chosen City over the last coupe of years.. In the same way United and Liverpool before them. They can't fill it now but after a few more years of buying the title they might!

 

[Spur of the moment]

Re: Northumberland Development Project

Chances are any semi-permanent resident of the PL top three in the middle of a 2.6m urban area is going to sell out a 60k stadium most of the time, regardless of how they got there.

It's frankly no big deal nowadays.

 

[markysimmo]

Re: Northumberland Development Project

Chances are any semi-permanent resident of the PL top three in the middle of a 2.6m urban area is going to sell out a 60k stadium most of the time, regardless of how they got there.

It's frankly no big deal nowadays.

They dont sell out now though

 

[Superhudd]

Re: Northumberland Development Project

I don't give two tosses about the Etihad stadium tbh apart from I think the stadium should have been sold for 400m just like the Olympic stadium should be and not rented for peanuts. Also it should be the owners of the stadium that should gain from the naming rights not those renting.

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

Re: Northumberland Development Project

There's probably a whole generation of glory hunting schoolkids that have chosen City over the last coupe of years.. In the same way United and Liverpool before them. They can't fill it now but after a few more years of buying the title they might!

Bang on the money, when i drove the cab i picked up a guy in a city shirt in Chichester, he said he did not like football but wanted his son to part of main stream culture, he was the sort of geeky weirdo who wore thick black glasses. I kind of respected him for getting his son into football so he did not turn out like him.

Still drove him the long way and took him past two level crossings that i knew would be down.

 

[onlyme]

Re: Northumberland Development Project

Bang on the money, when i drove the cab i picked up a guy in a city shirt in Chichester, he said he did not like football but wanted his son to part of main stream culture, he was the sort of geeky weirdo who wore thick black glasses. I kind of respected him for getting his son into football so he did not turn out like him.

Still drove him the long way and took him past two level crossings that i knew would be down.

I never let a cab driver out at a junction. I am horrified by your revelation...but not surprised.