• Dear Guest, Please note that adult content is not permitted on this forum. We have had our Google ads disabled at times due to some posts that were found from some time ago. Please do not post adult content and if you see any already on the forum, please report the post so that we can deal with it. Adult content is allowed in the glory hole - you will have to request permission to access it. Thanks, scara

Tottenham Hotspur Stadium - Licence To Stand

Re: Northumberland Development Project

Not my usual reading matter, I have to confess. I’m more of a New Humanist/Beano man. But Construction Enquirer is worth a peek for those interested in preparations for the new stadium.
McClaren Construction are believed to be teaming up with a Spanish outfit by the name of FCC to tender a £400m bid to THFC.
FCC are without doubt one of the biggest civil engineering works, building, and industrial building companies on planet Earth.They have built the Dubai Cricket Stadium, RCD Español Stadium, Barcelona, Real Madrid’s Sport City, Euro 08 stadiums in Wals, Siezenheim, Innsbruck, Wörthesee and Klagenfurt, Austria, Euro 12 stadiums in Gdansk, Posen and Krakow and Warsaw National Stadium, Poland and the London 2012 Communications Centre.
Examples of their upcoming projects include the Açu Superport in Rio de Janeiro, they are extending the Toronto-York Spadina Subway and a 2.13 km long bridge over the River Mersey which will carry about 80,000 vehicles per day.
McLaren is already on-site in North London delivering the first phase of the stadium redevelopment plan.
The firm won the contract in September 2012 to deliver a new 130,000 sq ft Sainsbury’s supermarket on the site with completion due in early 2014. McLaren was also responsible for the successful delivery of Spurs’ new £45m state-of-the-art Training Centre in Enfield.

A source at one major stadium builder said:
Most of the big names will go for this but the word in the industry is that McLaren and FCC could be the surprise package.
McLaren has strong links with the club but this would be its biggest job to date so linking-up with a larger player with stadium experience makes sense.”

Architect Populous has recently been appointed by Spurs to review the current plans for the 56,000-seater stadium.

http://theboyhotspur.com/400m-bid-being-prepared/?
 
Re: Northumberland Development Project

greatwhitenorf said:
If there's one stadium project elsewhere that Spurs are echoing with this project, it's Athletic Bilbao's new San Mames stadium. Built on the same idea we've seen Spurs propose to do - start construction of the new ground immediately adjacent and move in when it's two-thirds complete.

Well, Athletic have moved in and successfully inaugurated their ground. Evocative report here from Sid Lowe of the Guardian.

http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2013/sep/17/athletic-bilbao-sid-lowe
Click to expand...

Interesting. FFS.

It has cost €173m and has been built in only two years. Kutxabank and the Basque government have paid €50m each, the provincial Diputación too, while Athletic paid €33m and the Bilbao council €11m.

FFS.

FFS.
 
Re: Northumberland Development Project

greatwhitenorf said:
If there's one stadium project elsewhere that Spurs are echoing with this project, it's Athletic Bilbao's new San Mames stadium. Built on the same idea we've seen Spurs propose to do - start construction of the new ground immediately adjacent and move in when it's two-thirds complete.

Well, Athletic have moved in and successfully inaugurated their ground. Evocative report here from Sid Lowe of the Guardian.

http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2013/sep/17/athletic-bilbao-sid-lowe
Click to expand...

An exceptional project, in design, cost and delivery. And success in the face of quite considerable engineering complexity; a ground-breaking concept, ably steered through to fruition.

We're hoping to deliver the same, if not better.
 
Re: Northumberland Development Project

What every happens we will be ripped off for this stadium, any major projects in this country are vastly over priced. All major building contractors are greedy and inefficient and so many people have to have their snouts in the trough.
 
Re: Northumberland Development Project

I would say that there will be a good number of people putting forward a quote and hopefully competition will be fierce.

The funny thing about the above 400m quote above is that the stadium final design has not even been finalised yet (apparently). Also the stadium build is only around probably half that 400m quote with the other half probably being the third phase too. Remember that the Olympic stadium cost something ridiculous like 100m. A lot of the 450m spent was more for the clean up and getting the area ready for the stadium build. It was similar I believe for the Goons home too.
 
Re: Northumberland Development Project

Superhudd said:
I would say that there will be a good number of people putting forward a quote and hopefully competition will be fierce.

The funny thing about the above 400m quote above is that the stadium final design has not even been finalised yet (apparently). Also the stadium build is only around probably half that 400m quote with the other half probably being the third phase too. Remember that the Olympic stadium cost something ridiculous like 100m. A lot of the 450m spent was more for the clean up and getting the area ready for the stadium build. It was similar I believe for the Goons home too.
Click to expand...

The common figure quoted for the cost of the NDP seems to be £450 million. However this cost includes the development in it's entirety including cost of the land purchased, costs of planning and all 3 phases of the proposed development. The land and planning costs have already been capitalised and one would assume that the supermarket and residential development costs would both be self financing (and indeed profit making). I believe that the stadium only cost of the Emirates was quoted as being £250 million and we have estimated that our stadium costs will be similar (a smaller footprint but higher quality finish apparently).

That £250 million is therefore likely to be the amount we have to raise in funding to get this thing built. So let's do the sums on that making some assumptions and using over simplified economics....

A (punitive) interest rate of 7% would mean approx £17.5 million interest per year.
If we assume the minimum of 19 games then we would have to make an additional £920,000 per match to pay that interest.
Now let's assume we average 53,000 of the 56,000 capacity. We would be selling an extra 17,000 tickets.
In order to make our interest payments each year we would have to sell those extra 17,000 tickets for an average of £54 each. When you consider the additional huge ramp up in corporate seats this will be easy to achieve.
Each additional match that we play above the minimum of 19 then results in another £1 million or so of revenue for the club.
Therefore even using these rough figures and estimating conservatively the stadium more than pays it's own way.

Now consider an (again conservative) estimate of a stadium naming rights deal of £150 million. That would only leave £100 million of additional funding to find. If we use the same figures and rates as above that's only £7 million of interest per year - against (an again conservative) £1 million of additional revenue per game. Interest paid and £12 million of additional revenue per season - effectively this would allow THFC to pay back the £100 million loan in less than 7 years.

Now if we apply more realistic figures....

We can probably realistically expect to play 23 home games per season. We can probably also reasonably expect ticket income to generate an average somewhere north of an additional £1.5 million from each home game compared to WHL. That is £34.5 million of additional revenue per season. Of course this number blows up even further in the event of the club participating in the Champions League. Of course none of the above factors in that the new stadium will cost more to staff, maintain, etc, but against that a higher capacity will also generate more in terms of non match ticket related revenue and there is also the possibility of hosting additional events (internationals, friendlies, concerts, etc).

From the sorts of numbers above it is clear that the stadium works as a financial project even with no naming rights sponsor. A good naming rights deal will simply be the icing on the cake! I just hope Levy isn't driving too hard a bargain here and delaying things as a result of that - as every year's delay to the project could be costing the club £34.5 million of revenue!
 
Re: Northumberland Development Project

Good stuff.

Although I get the impression we make considerably less per match in cup competitions outside of the CL. As a pensioner I can often get in for a tenner, and gates can sometimes be in the 25k area rather than 35k. Imagine that in a 56k stadium!

Also with effectively six clubs competing annually for four CL places I can see us missing out most years.
 
Re: Northumberland Development Project

Spur of the moment said:
Good stuff.

Although I get the impression we make considerably less per match in cup competitions outside of the CL. As a pensioner I can often get in for a tenner, and gates can sometimes be in the 25k area rather than 35k. Imagine that in a 56k stadium!

Also with effectively six clubs competing annually for four CL places I can see us missing out most years.
Click to expand...

I would counter that by saying that a lot more family tickets can be generated like they have done for the £60 Tromso game and therefore create a new generation of Spurs fans, something I think we find problematic to fix. With new fans brings more spending on membership, more spending on merchandise, more spending on matchday activities.

I think 56k will easily be filled.
 
Re: Northumberland Development Project

Finney Is Back said:
The common figure quoted for the cost of the NDP seems to be £450 million. However this cost includes the development in it's entirety including cost of the land purchased, costs of planning and all 3 phases of the proposed development. The land and planning costs have already been capitalised and one would assume that the supermarket and residential development costs would both be self financing (and indeed profit making). I believe that the stadium only cost of the Emirates was quoted as being £250 million and we have estimated that our stadium costs will be similar (a smaller footprint but higher quality finish apparently).

That £250 million is therefore likely to be the amount we have to raise in funding to get this thing built. So let's do the sums on that making some assumptions and using over simplified economics....

A (punitive) interest rate of 7% would mean approx £17.5 million interest per year.
If we assume the minimum of 19 games then we would have to make an additional £920,000 per match to pay that interest.
Now let's assume we average 53,000 of the 56,000 capacity. We would be selling an extra 17,000 tickets.
In order to make our interest payments each year we would have to sell those extra 17,000 tickets for an average of £54 each. When you consider the additional huge ramp up in corporate seats this will be easy to achieve.
Each additional match that we play above the minimum of 19 then results in another £1 million or so of revenue for the club.
Therefore even using these rough figures and estimating conservatively the stadium more than pays it's own way.

Now consider an (again conservative) estimate of a stadium naming rights deal of £150 million. That would only leave £100 million of additional funding to find. If we use the same figures and rates as above that's only £7 million of interest per year - against (an again conservative) £1 million of additional revenue per game. Interest paid and £12 million of additional revenue per season - effectively this would allow THFC to pay back the £100 million loan in less than 7 years.

Now if we apply more realistic figures....

We can probably realistically expect to play 23 home games per season. We can probably also reasonably expect ticket income to generate an average somewhere north of an additional £1.5 million from each home game compared to WHL. That is £34.5 million of additional revenue per season. Of course this number blows up even further in the event of the club participating in the Champions League. Of course none of the above factors in that the new stadium will cost more to staff, maintain, etc, but against that a higher capacity will also generate more in terms of non match ticket related revenue and there is also the possibility of hosting additional events (internationals, friendlies, concerts, etc).

From the sorts of numbers above it is clear that the stadium works as a financial project even with no naming rights sponsor. A good naming rights deal will simply be the icing on the cake! I just hope Levy isn't driving too hard a bargain here and delaying things as a result of that - as every year's delay to the project could be costing the club £34.5 million of revenue!
Click to expand...


Good post, and as you say you've been pretty conservative in a number of places. For example, 7% IR is a good stress-test figure, but in reality it would be lower. All in all the numbers seem to square.
 
Re: Northumberland Development Project

yeah good post, I have been saying the above for quite a number of years on here (but not in that detail) that there should not be any financial reasons why this stadium should not have already started. Obviously the naming rights makes things a lot easier but I have been suggesting a loan from Uncle Joe could have covered this initial naming rights payment for which I have felt I have driven a lone road on here and often castigated for even suggesting it :lol: . It really does my head in that they decided to do the supermarket first and not the stadium.
Personally it would have been nice to see the Stadium done first and then see where the land lies regarding finances with that monstrouserty next to the stadium used as a final preference. It would have been far better to have a pre-game complex for home fans, akin to an Airport or Road service centre where you get many different franchises, each run by the club. Mega sports bars for fans that cannot get tickets etc inside. Something like that can also be used 7 days a week.
I'd love to know the numbers for what Sainsbury's brings each year.
 
Last edited:
Re: Northumberland Development Project

Poached from skys****er:

A series of tweets from someone going by the name of Rob MDK Hayward (@robMDK). I've no idea who he is or why he might be privy to such detail. But these were posted to a Spurs message board by an "itk", so there might be something in it. Pinch of salt required, as per usual:

Quote:
Spurs stadium update (As little info as it is)
McLaren are scheduled to finish the supermarket and handover on 4/11/2013.

Work at 500 White Hart Lane (industrial unit) is scheduled to start 4/2/2013

The Stadium is due to start 5/5/2014 with £188.2m coming from private funding

The contractor has not been named but tenders are returned from BAM, Laing, McAlpine and McLaren.

I said McLaren are the favoured contractor due to their work on the training ground and supermarket.They have teamed up with FCC Infrastructure and combined will be a well equipped and experienced developer.
FCC (Spain) have built Real Madrid's Sport City, Jerez F1 circuit, Espanyol Stadium plus the Euro 08 & 12 stadiums.

work on the 288 residential/commercial units are due to start on completion of the stadium, Around May 2017, With £31.6m in private funding
 
Re: Northumberland Development Project

From @robMDK

Spurs stadium update (As little info as it is)


McLaren are scheduled to finish the supermarket and handover on 4/11/2013.


Work at 500 White Hart Lane (industrial unit) is scheduled to start 4/2/2013


The Stadium is due to start 5/5/2014 with £188.2m coming from private funding


The contractor has not been named but tenders are returned from BAM, Laing, McAlpine and McLaren.


I said McLaren are the favoured contractor due to their work on the training ground and supermarket.


They have teamed up with FCC Infrastructure and combined will be a well equipped and experienced developer


FCC (Spain) have built Real Madrid's Sport City, Jerez F1 circuit, Espanyol Stadium plus the Euro 08 & 12 stadiums.


work on the 288 residential/commercial units are due to start on completion of the stadium, Around May 2017, With £31.6m in private funding
Click to expand...
 
Re: Northumberland Development Project

dokta-d said:
Poached from skys****er:

A series of tweets from someone going by the name of Rob MDK Hayward (@robMDK). I've no idea who he is or why he might be privy to such detail. But these were posted to a Spurs message board by an "itk", so there might be something in it. Pinch of salt required, as per usual:

Quote:
Spurs stadium update (As little info as it is)
McLaren are scheduled to finish the supermarket and handover on 4/11/2013.

Work at 500 White Hart Lane (industrial unit) is scheduled to start 4/2/2013

The Stadium is due to start 5/5/2014 with £188.2m coming from private funding

The contractor has not been named but tenders are returned from BAM, Laing, McAlpine and McLaren.

I said McLaren are the favoured contractor due to their work on the training ground and supermarket.They have teamed up with FCC Infrastructure and combined will be a well equipped and experienced developer.
FCC (Spain) have built Real Madrid's Sport City, Jerez F1 circuit, Espanyol Stadium plus the Euro 08 & 12 stadiums.

work on the 288 residential/commercial units are due to start on completion of the stadium, Around May 2017, With £31.6m in private funding
Click to expand...

Even with a ton of salt that sounds good!
 
Re: Northumberland Development Project

Any word on the proposed walkway leading up to the stadium? And, apart from that, I've always been a sucker for round numbers, so sell Ade + someone else for 11.8 million quid and make it a nice round 200 million. :p

In all seriousness, if it's starting soon, I hope we've managed to get a seat + space increase approved and have budgeted for it. I fear 56,000 seats may not be make us as competitive long-term as we would have liked given the current trend of stadium expansions and construction going on across Europe.
 
Re: Northumberland Development Project

Superhudd said:
I would counter that by saying that a lot more family tickets can be generated like they have done for the £60 Tromso game and therefore create a new generation of Spurs fans, something I think we find problematic to fix. With new fans brings more spending on membership, more spending on merchandise, more spending on matchday activities.

I think 56k will easily be filled.
Click to expand...

I agree that this should be encouraged... I took five kids and me for £80 to the Tromso game... and will deffo do this again if they keep prices as reasonable.
 
Re: Northumberland Development Project

Work at 500 White Hart Lane (industrial unit) is scheduled to start 4/2/2013
Click to expand...

Did this happen?

This is the site proposed for Archway Steel's relocation.
 
Re: Northumberland Development Project

Superhudd said:
I would counter that by saying that a lot more family tickets can be generated like they have done for the £60 Tromso game and therefore create a new generation of Spurs fans, something I think we find problematic to fix. With new fans brings more spending on membership, more spending on merchandise, more spending on matchday activities.

I think 56k will easily be filled.
Click to expand...

Easily!

Hopefully the pitch size will be larger than the present one. I would think just widening and lenthening the stadium a few metres would add a couple of thousand more seats.+ another metre or two in height would easily boost the capacity a few more thousand without changing the general design!

75k will do nicely........
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back