Tottenham Hotspur Stadium - Licence To Stand

[Gazza Dazzla]

I'm Essex based and in my 30's. Honestly, round my way, down the pubs, playing football in Saturday and Sunday teams, there's hardly any Chelsea fans, I'm talking less than 5%.

I guess generally you just have to look at the demand for the cup finals and semis we've had against them in recent years to see that Spurs tickets are going for well over double what Chelsea's are on the black market, just basic supply and demand really.

 

[PochettinoPochettinoPochettino]

Can we please not let Chelsea ruin this thread, it's been very sexy and lovely until the last page!

 

[Raziel]

i really dont see the problem in allowing Spurs to have Wembley for season 2017-18 and then hand it over to Chelski for seasons 2018-19 and 2019-2020. So Chelski simply have to find a temporary home for season 2017-18 until they can go to Wembley. Reading is an hour away from them. If they want somewhere bigger then they can try their luck at the Olympic stadium. West Spam are less hostile with Chelski than Spurs

I think the issue re making Wembley available will end up being either a share (both clubs get to use) or nothing.

Levy isn't afraid to leverage legal advice, and any sort of preferential treatment by FA/Wembley could easily be brought to court, especially with the clearly public fact that Spurs made the request first, both London Clubs, both needing temporary usage for a period of time for same reason.

If the FA is smart, they would accommodate both, take the money from both and stay away from the usual circus of controversy and stupid decisions.

 

[JerusalemMan]

I think the issue re making Wembley available will end up being either a share (both clubs get to use) or nothing.

Levy isn't afraid to leverage legal advice, and any sort of preferential treatment by FA/Wembley could easily be brought to court, especially with the clearly public fact that Spurs made the request first, both London Clubs, both needing temporary usage for a period of time for same reason.

If the FA is smart, they would accommodate both, take the money from both and stay away from the usual circus of controversy and stupid decisions.

I may have spotted a problem already

 

[Robbo]

Ok, brand spanking new stadium, increasing capacity by 70%, NFL games, concerts, etc. What exactly will this mean to Spurs?

We'll obviously have a lot more financial power in 5-10 years. The stadium is already exciting our current players, based on Twitter reactions. Bigger wages and the best stadium in the country...surely we'll be able to attract better players than today?

How good can we get? Will we be able to overtake the financially doped clubs? Is this the start of a golden era for Spurs? Or will we simply consolidate our status as a top five club, possibly being slightly stronger in our fight for top four and CL qualification.

I will certainly miss WHL and I fully sympathise with Roy's views on this development, but this has made me really excited about the future of the club. Maybe, just maybe, I'll experience a league win in my lifetime. I never thought I would, but now I think I might.

 

[Gutter Boy]

Does anyone think it will be possible to expand the stadium in the future for a bigger capacity if we want, I'd guess they'd design it so that it's possible.

60k seems the optimum for top clubs. Note how big teams in Italy have been moving (or are planning to move) from 80k stadiums back to 60k ones (the Turin, Milan and Rome teams)

Liverpool have "the Kop".

Tottenham Hotspur will have "The Kop"

Arsenal actually had the original kop, and more than 20 teams have one: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spion_Kop_(stadiums)

 

[JerusalemMan]

The increase in financial power should come quicker than 5-10 years. The calibre of company wanting to be associated with the naming of a new, innovative stadium that - for the first time ever - combines NFL and football in this unique way will be higher than those interested if we just had an Emirates clone. And the amount they'd be willing to pay will be higher too.

 

[Craig_J]

Ok, brand spanking new stadium, increasing capacity by 70%, NFL games, concerts, etc. What exactly will this mean to Spurs?

We'll obviously have a lot more financial power in 5-10 years. The stadium is already exciting our current players, based on Twitter reactions. Bigger wages and the best stadium in the country...surely we'll be able to attract better players than today?

How good can we get? Will we be able to overtake the financially doped clubs? Is this the start of a golden era for Spurs? Or will we simply consolidate our status as a top five club, possibly being slightly stronger in our fight for top four and CL qualification.

I will certainly miss WHL and I fully sympathise with Roy's views on this development, but this has made me really excited about the future of the club. Maybe, just maybe, I'll experience a league win in my lifetime. I never thought I would, but now I think I might.

Personally I think they sky will be the limit if we do things properly and I hope ENIC will be there to steer us in the right direction. Personally I don't think they will leave us. They are an investment company and will expect a significant return for what already has been an extremley long investment but I doubt they'd leave us halfway through our journey.

After the stadiums complete I think for the first 5 years or so we'll have to be content with keeping ourselves in the top 6 whilst we start to pay back some of the money we get through loans. I expect that because of the increase in money in football, the NFL agreement, the fact we'll probably have a higher sponsorship etc. that we will pay back quicker than Arsenal have been doing with the Emirates. If we can sneak into the top four a couple of times then that can only help to speed up the process.

During the 5-10 year period I think the aim will turn to obtaining and more importantly retaining a top four place so that the Champions League money can help boost our coffers. Also during this period more than ever keeping hold of our top players shouldn't be something we have to consider. It should be treated as vital.

After that 5-10 year period if everything's gone to plan I then hope that we can finally set our sights on challenging for major honours and becoming a global name. Of course football is rarely this simple but ENIC will want us to be one of the biggest clubs in Europe so they can cash in for HUGE profits. If it all goes according to plan, and they don't sell us to some dodgy geezer who'll take money from the club then I wouldn't begrudge them that at all.

 

[indianspur]

60k seems the optimum for top clubs. Note how big teams in Italy have been moving (or are planning to move) from 80k stadiums back to 60k ones (the Turin, Milan and Rome teams)

actually, Juve's new ground only holds 41k and AC Milan's new one will have a capacity of 48k

 

[Raziel]

Personally I think they sky will be the limit if we do things properly and I hope ENIC will be there to steer us in the right direction. Personally I don't think they will leave us. They are an investment company and will expect a significant return for what already has been an extremley long investment but I doubt they'd leave us halfway through our journey.

After the stadiums complete I think for the first 5 years or so we'll have to be content with keeping ourselves in the top 6 whilst we start to pay back some of the money we get through loans. I expect that because of the increase in money in football, the NFL agreement, the fact we'll probably have a higher sponsorship etc. that we will pay back quicker than Arsenal have been doing with the Emirates. If we can sneak into the top four a couple of times then that can only help to speed up the process.

During the 5-10 year period I think the aim will turn to obtaining and more importantly retaining a top four place so that the Champions League money can help boost our coffers. Also during this period more than ever keeping hold of our top players shouldn't be something we have to consider. It should be treated as vital.

After that 5-10 year period if everything's gone to plan I then hope that we can finally set our sights on challenging for major honours and becoming a global name. Of course football is rarely this simple but ENIC will want us to be one of the biggest clubs in Europe so they can cash in for HUGE profits. If it all goes according to plan, and they don't sell us to some dodgy geezer who'll take money from the club then I wouldn't begrudge them that at all.

I think what people miss with the monetization is this

- way too many people think ENIC is going to sell the club, not so, they are not asset strippers nor are they investing in a way that minimizes their spend.
- the money is not in selling the club, the money is in global tv rights for a top tier club in the next decade, especially if the interest in the sport in America (note how much our marketing seems focused there +NFL tie in) continues to grow. It will potentially be a big income stream year over year, much better than a one time profit after 13 years of investment/work.

Re how quickly we compete, it will depend on how quickly the revenue stream goes up. The loan will probably be quite manageable based on investments already made and likely sponsorship deals. Assuming Levy/ENIC continue their existing model, the majority of income stream will be invested in squad while keeping us in black. How quickly and significantly the sponsorships, corporate deals, new season ticket holders, extra seating, etc grow that income will say how fast we improve ..

 

[Craig_J]

I think what people miss with the monetization is this

- way too many people think ENIC is going to sell the club, not so, they are not asset strippers nor are they investing in a way that minimizes their spend.
- the money is not in selling the club, the money is in global tv rights for a top tier club in the next decade, especially if the interest in the sport in America (note how much our marketing seems focused there +NFL tie in) continues to grow. It will potentially be a big income masked water tyrant year over year, much better than a one time profit after 13 years of investment/work.

Re how quickly we compete, it will depend on how quickly the revenue masked water tyrant goes up. The loan will probably be quite manageable based on investments already made and likely sponsorship deals. Assuming Levy/ENIC continue their existing model, the majority of income masked water tyrant will be invested in squad while keeping us in black. How quickly and significantly the sponsorships, corporate deals, new season ticket holders, extra seating, etc grow that income will say how fast we improve ..

If they're not taking money out of the club though isn't only way to make a return on their investment from selling the club as the money we'd be getting from America would be for the club?

Also please can someone let me know what the swear filter is filtering when "Masked water tyrant" comes up!?

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I think you are wrong Bedford. It's not wrong to highlight other things than only the financial part of this, and there are MANY cases where the opinion of the laymen can influence, and even change the outcome of any given case. It certainly wont do any harm!

I think it does the opposite

I'm waiting for someone to start petition next

The letter also talks about North London Derbys yet we regularly talk about arsenal being from the South!!!

 

[Bedfordspurs]

If they're not taking money out of the club though isn't only way to make a return on their investment from selling the club as the money we'd be getting from America would be for the club?

Also please can someone let me know what the swear filter is filtering when "Masked water tyrant" comes up!?

It's S T R E A M

They were an investment business bs technically are but I don't think levy sees it as anything but his baby for a long time. His aim was always to own Spurs and they sold all the other clubs to do that. Levy has no other businesses anymore that I'm aware of and Joe Lewis really couldn't give a poo as Their actual investment against its value is minimal (id hazard a guess at £50m in and a value of £300m - no idea if that's direct) so there paper return is huge

 

[T-C]

I think the issue re making Wembley available will end up being either a share (both clubs get to use) or nothing.

Levy isn't afraid to leverage legal advice, and any sort of preferential treatment by FA/Wembley could easily be brought to court, especially with the clearly public fact that Spurs made the request first, both London Clubs, both needing temporary usage for a period of time for same reason.

On what basis could legal action be taken? It might be the national stadium, but it's still a private venue. If the club won't pay the asking price, why would they have to let them play? Neither Spurs or Chelsea have a right to play there.

They will still have contracts for NFL games, England games, and cup finals through the season.

What about European games? There's no way that pitch could take two teams playing all of those games.

 

[parklane1]

They were an investment business bs technically are but I don't think levy sees it as anything but his baby for a long time. His aim was always to own Spurs and they sold all the other clubs to do that. Levy has no other businesses anymore that I'm aware of and Joe Lewis really couldn't give a poo as Their actual investment against its value is minimal (id hazard a guess at £50m in and a value of £300m - no idea if that's direct) so there paper return is huge

Pretty much what I believe as well especially the bit about Levy wanting to take this club to the top. He has always said he wants to see Spurs challenge for the big honours and I have always believed he means what he says. Lets be honest I have heard some fans say he has no love for the club and he is just in it to buy new boats for Lewis, I have heard some say we would never build the training facilities to match Europe's best, I have heard some fans say that as soon as we got the building plans approved for the new stadium he will sell up, I have heard from some fans he would never build the new ground.

Well so far much of that has been shown to be flimflam and he is still here and planning for the future.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Pretty much what I believe as well especially the bit about Levy wanting to take this club to the top. He has always said he wants to see Spurs challenge for the big honours and I have always believed he means what he says. Lets be honest I have heard some fans say he has no love for the club and he is just in it to buy new boats for Lewis, I have heard some say we would never build the training facilities to match Europe's best, I have heard some fans say that as soon as we got the building plans approved for the new stadium he will sell up, I have heard from some fans he would never build the new ground.

Well so far much of that has been shown to be hogwash and he is still here and planning for the future.

And as I've mentioned before Levy isn't loaded. Lewis is but couldn't give two hoots about football

If levy the Spurs fan was worth Lewis's money we may have seen an Abramovich type injection of money. He isn't but he is a businessman and he is still learning. He has grown a business from being worth £25m to 10 times that. Yep the new TV deals have made that impact but he has done a lot right commercially to increase our business too

Ultimately the club invests what it makes back. No one that I can see is skimming off the top to buy a yacht if a new mansion etc... Levy does pay himself a High wage but compare it to other business of this size and it's pretty low as it isn't stacked with bonuses

What I've never understood is why Lewis hasn't loaned the club the money to pay for the ground on a reasonable guaranteed return... That would suit him I would have thought but it's his money

 

[parklane1]

And as I've mentioned before Levy isn't loaded. Lewis is but couldn't give two hoots about football

If levy the Spurs fan was worth Lewis's money we may have seen an Abramovich type injection of money. He isn't but he is a businessman and he is still learning. He has grown a business from being worth £25m to 10 times that. Yep the new TV deals have made that impact but he has done a lot right commercially to increase our business too

Ultimately the club invests what it makes back. No one that I can see is skimming off the top to buy a yacht if a new mansion etc... Levy does pay himself a High wage but compare it to other business of this size and it's pretty low as it isn't stacked with bonuses

What I've never understood is why Lewis hasn't loaned the club the money to pay for the ground on a reasonable guaranteed return... That would suit him I would have thought but it's his money

Levy is on a high wage but ( and i may be wrong about this) is it not a wage for his part in running all ENIC's various holdings and not just for his part in running Spurs? I know Levy owns a 29% share of Spurs but I am not sure if is wage is just for that.

As for Lewis not lending the club his own money I have no idea why he has not loaned us the funds for the stadium, however he is a far better business man then me so he must have his reasons.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Levy is on a high wage but ( and i may be wrong about this) is it not a wage for his part in running all ENIC's various holdings and not just for his part in running Spurs? I know Levy owns a 29% share of Spurs but I am not sure if is wage is just for that.

As for Lewis not lending the club his own money I have no idea why he has not loaned us the funds for the stadium, however he is a far better business man then me so he must have his reasons.

No idea on the age thing to be honest but I think we're pretty much all that's left of ENICs investments now as they sold off everyone else (I may be wrong)

 

[Gutter Boy]

Personally I think they sky will be the limit if we do things properly and I hope ENIC will be there to steer us in the right direction. Personally I don't think they will leave us. They are an investment company and will expect a significant return for what already has been an extremley long investment but I doubt they'd leave us halfway through our journey.

After the stadiums complete I think for the first 5 years or so we'll have to be content with keeping ourselves in the top 6 whilst we start to pay back some of the money we get through loans. I expect that because of the increase in money in football, the NFL agreement, the fact we'll probably have a higher sponsorship etc. that we will pay back quicker than Arsenal have been doing with the Emirates. If we can sneak into the top four a couple of times then that can only help to speed up the process.

During the 5-10 year period I think the aim will turn to obtaining and more importantly retaining a top four place so that the Champions League money can help boost our coffers. Also during this period more than ever keeping hold of our top players shouldn't be something we have to consider. It should be treated as vital.

After that 5-10 year period if everything's gone to plan I then hope that we can finally set our sights on challenging for major honours and becoming a global name. Of course football is rarely this simple but ENIC will want us to be one of the biggest clubs in Europe so they can cash in for HUGE profits. If it all goes according to plan, and they don't sell us to some dodgy geezer who'll take money from the club then I wouldn't begrudge them that at all.

The clever bit is that we've already paid for half the stadium (£200m on land acquisition and groundworks). That's why we've had zero net spend on transfer for 7 years.

3 more years of austerity and the naming rights/NFL money/selling the Spurs Lodge site etc. means we could possibly be debt free by the time the stadium opens. No decade of pain afterwards like Arsenal

 

[parklane1]

No idea on the age thing to be honest but I think we're pretty much all that's left of ENICs investments now as they sold off everyone else (I may be wrong)

You may be right, I know they got rid of all their sport portfolio but not sure if they did with all their media outlets. However I think since he has been chairman he has done a great job, of course he has made mistakes ( I have never met anyone in any field that has not) but there are none better in the Prem for me.