Timo Werner

[Chrissivad]

Interesting; what was going on, do you think Werner wasn't working hard enough or bottled a challenge or wasn't making himself available or something?
EDIT - I just watched back minutes 42 to 46 and it seemed pretty normal i.e. Werner was tracking back and trying to go forwards and his through ball for Son was cut out super easily, then he tracked all the way back again and then didn't have the energy to get forwards, then he got bumped off the ball too easily and Rangers had a shot, then he was tackling back and seeing the half out, all pretty normal Werner stuff.

I couldn't make out what they were trying to gesture. They just spent a while waving their arms over at Werner.

Then there was a stoppage in play and Maddison went over to speak to Ange before heading over to Werner. I'm guessing to pass on the message.

 

[Benny_Lad]

Dortmund only covered 1/3rd of his wages when ManU sent him back on loan there, not sure if €helsea got quite so generous a deal but if Sancho’s wages can be negotiated down to a reasonable level then well worth a punt at £25m.

Timo is a better team player but on par with Sterling for getting into good positions only to miss the target. Both are underachieving has-beens we shouldn’t be spending £millions on the wages of, if the transfer committee are doing their job properly.

There’s a brilliant player at Watford (Chakvetadze) who I’ve seen a couple if times. It’s absolute chalk and cheese watching him and Werner. Like you say I’d be amazed if we went in for any has-been again.

Weirdly we have 4 others that can play there. Son, Odobert, Moore, Richy. All 5 (inc Werner) are either injured or out of form.

The stellar signing for me who is 2 years younger than Chakvetadze but much the senior player in the Georgian team and almost certainly would not come to us is Kvaratschelia.

But Napoli picked him up for £10m! Thats what our scouts/DOF need to be finding, not the other end of the scale.

 

[Jurgen the German]

I...told...you...so....

Remember posters telling us to “get behind the signing/club” when we re-loaned him?

 

[glasgowspur]

Thought he was really bad last night, but not worse than Son, Johnson or maddison.
This is not unusual from ange BTW, he did it at Celtic a few times and the players were gone in the next window.

 

[braineclipse]

Thought he was really bad last night, but not worse than Son, Johnson or maddison.
This is not unusual from ange BTW, he did it at Celtic a few times and the players were gone in the next window.

Cheers. Didn't know that about his time at Celtic.

Still wondering if it was something he thought he could do if the right question came or if it was his frustration getting the better of him and it just came out.

 

[fernadez]

I'd also like to mention that up till this week I've seen Jose blamed for Alli's fall off. That the public way that him and Conte done things was wrong, against the clubs ethos, can't be done in the modern game etc etc

Don't see how what Ange done last night is any different. Werner obviously has no confidence, never hides unlike others l, can play well and still be benched. Don't see any thing to gain from digging him out.

I got no problem with him doing it, just don't do it on the cheap.

 

[braineclipse]

I'd also like to mention that up till this week I've seen Jose blamed for Alli's fall off. That the public way that him and Conte done things was wrong, against the clubs ethos, can't be done in the modern game etc etc

Don't see how what Ange done last night is any different. Werner obviously has no confidence, never hides unlike others l, can play well and still be benched. Don't see any thing to gain from digging him out.

I got no problem with him doing it, just don't do it on the cheap.

In the greater picture it's not that uncommon for managers to do this kind of thing, tough obviously something that happens rarely.

I guess there could be benefits in terms of other players not wanting to be the next one called out. Or if Ange wants Werner to leave in January and wants to give him a push to leave.

Again would be interesting to know if this was premeditated, pointing to Ange thinking that it would be beneficial.

Personally I doubt it's beneficial on the whole. Though perhaps at the right time it could be useful?

Will be in to see what happens next.

 

[fernadez]

In the greater picture it's not that uncommon for managers to do this kind of thing, tough obviously something that happens rarely.

I guess there could be benefits in terms of other players not wanting to be the next one called out. Or if Ange wants Werner to leave in January and wants to give him a push to leave.

Again would be interesting to know if this was premeditated, pointing to Ange thinking that it would be beneficial.

Personally I doubt it's beneficial on the whole. Though perhaps at the right time it could be useful?

Will be in to see what happens next.

I think in that case go for someone like Son. My captain is not at the level and I'm not afraid to call out my biggest player. Calling out Werner is one step away from calling out Spence.

 

[braineclipse]

I think in that case go for someone like Son. My captain is not at the level and I'm not afraid to call out my biggest player. Calling out Werner is one step away from calling out Spence.

I can definitely see that point.

To me what we got from Son yesterday was pretty much what we could expect of tired Son playing as a striker and even more tired Son playing wide.

What we got from Werner yesterday was less than what we could expect. By some distance.

 

[Bishop]

Did they also lose the ball 16 times like Werner did (according to BBC Sport)?

Did Johnson even touch it 16 times?

 

[Bishop]

I can definitely see that point.

To me what we got from Son yesterday was pretty much what we could expect of tired Son playing as a striker and even more tired Son playing wide.

What we got from Werner yesterday was less than what we could expect. By some distance.

I dunno, thats exactly what I expect from Werner. Its what we get from him the majority of the time.

 

[Mikey10]

Easy player to target

100%. He’s a bit of a laughing stock amongst some of the fan base and can be got rid of in January.

Nothing said on Maddison or Son, both of whom were equally bad and are part of the (frankly laughable) leadership group.

It was - another - lapse in judgment in a press conference. Mostly a sign that he’s really struggling under the pressure and is out of answers.

 

[glorygloryeze]

100%. He’s a bit of a laughing stock amongst some of the fan base and can be got rid of in January.

Nothing said on Maddison or Son, both of whom were equally bad and are part of the (frankly laughable) leadership group.

It was - another - lapse in judgment in a press conference. Mostly a sign that he’s really struggling under the pressure and is out of his depth.

Fixed. No charge

 

[braineclipse]

I dunno, thats exactly what I expect from Werner. Its what we get from him the majority of the time.

Disagree on that. Rather obviously Ange doesn't see it that way either. If a performance that gets him subbed at half time and called out to the press was the norm we wouldn't have loaned him again.

He's not a superstar by any means, he's a squad player. But he's had plenty of games that have been significantly better than this one. I think this was one of his worst performances in our shirt.

 

[Bishop]

Disagree on that. Rather obviously Ange doesn't see it that way either. If a performance that gets him subbed at half time and called out to the press was the norm we wouldn't have loaned him again.

He's not a superstar by any means, he's a squad player. But he's had plenty of games that have been significantly better than this one. I think this was one of his worst performances in our shirt.

I dunno about significantly better tbh but hey we all see things our own way. I don't really see any difference between yesterday and any number of his performances. I'm just thinking the penny is finally dropping with Ange as regards how useful and effective he is or lack of more accurately.

 

[glasgowspur]

Disagree on that. Rather obviously Ange doesn't see it that way either. If a performance that gets him subbed at half time and called out to the press was the norm we wouldn't have loaned him again.

He's not a superstar by any means, he's a squad player. But he's had plenty of games that have been significantly better than this one. I think this was one of his worst performances in our shirt.

Thought it was a cowardly performance, tavenier is not quick and werner was refusing to test him.
I'm not usually a critic of werner but I thought that was a bad performance last night.
Not that he was only in bad performance, son, maddison and Johnson were bad.

 

[braineclipse]

I dunno about significantly better tbh but hey we all see things our own way. I don't really see any difference between yesterday and any number of his performances. I'm just thinking the penny is finally dropping with Ange as regards how useful and effective he is or lack of more accurately.

We do see things differently for sure.

I find the idea that Werner has just been mostly this poor for close to a year now and Ange only realising this now to be impossible to believe.

 

[Bishop]

We do see things differently for sure.

I find the idea that Werner has just been mostly this poor for close to a year now and Ange only realising this now to be impossible to believe.

It might be the pressure telling, it's beginning to build. He also rarely actually picks Werner as a choice unless somewhat forced into it.

 

[Lakey]

Postecoglou not worrying about 'bruised egos'published at 12:03 Greenwich Mean Time
12:03 GMT​

Southampton v Tottenham (19:00 GMT Sunday)

Tottenham Hotspur

Ange Postecoglou must only have just unpacked his bag from last night's game but he's aready facing the media again.

Unsurprisingly he has been asked about his criticism of Timo Werner. Perhaps surprisingly, he has not backed down.

He said: "It wasn’t criticism. It was assessment

"He’s [Werner] an international, he’s won the Champions League, he’s a senior player. There’s a level of application you need to rise to, to raise the team. He didn’t reach that.

“It’s just an assessment of his performance. On a really challenging night for us — which we knew going into it — he needs to be better.

“We’re in a fight here. I’m not going to go away worrying about people’s bruised egos. We’re here to win things."

 

[Muttley]

Postecoglou not worrying about 'bruised egos'published at 12:03 Greenwich Mean Time
12:03 GMT​

Southampton v Tottenham (19:00 GMT Sunday)

Tottenham Hotspur

Ange Postecoglou must only have just unpacked his bag from last night's game but he's aready facing the media again.

Unsurprisingly he has been asked about his criticism of Timo Werner. Perhaps surprisingly, he has not backed down.

He said: "It wasn’t criticism. It was assessment

"He’s [Werner] an international, he’s won the Champions League, he’s a senior player. There’s a level of application you need to rise to, to raise the team. He didn’t reach that.

“It’s just an assessment of his performance. On a really challenging night for us — which we knew going into it — he needs to be better.

“We’re in a fight here. I’m not going to go away worrying about people’s bruised egos. We’re here to win things."

If this is the new way, so be it. Ange has to operate a meritocracy though. He cannot call out loanees like Timo and not call out his captain, and some of his other attacking players like Madds and Johnson.

I promise you something though. You can't keep calling out players names publicly without losing the dressing room. That just makes you Tim Sherwood.