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Tim Sherwood…gone \o/

Do you want Tim Sherwood to stay as manager?


  • Total voters
    125
  • Poll closed .
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I'd be pushing partly as hard as I am.

As you know, I don't want Timmeh as our manager for two reasons:

1) I think he's a **** - he's publicly insulted the club on a number of occasions and can't keep his flappy gob shut whenevers there's a microphone waved in front of it.
2) He has no experience and much of what he says leads me to believe he needs a huge amount more before he could be considered

So take away reason one with Ledley and reason 2 still exists. I wouldn't be pushing as hard, but I'd still be pushing.

I would put to you that you would give Ledley credit where credit is due though, something you will never do for TS.

But anyways, that's a bit of a pointless discussion which has been done to death by now. I think it's fairly well established (and not actually denied by you) that the reasons you won't give him any credit for anything are nothing to do with football.
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Why?

This is a team that has beaten City and Chelsea so please explain why it "should've been a demolition job"

It's a game of football not a game of conkers.

I don't think it should have been a demolition job, but we should be looking to beat Sunderland at home, regardless of who our manager is.
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

It's a game of football not a game of conkers.

I don't think it should have been a demolition job, but we should be looking to beat Sunderland at home, regardless of who our manager is.

Agreed.... and we did this, with rather a large amount to spare too.... A huge contrast to the final game of last season. ;)
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

For a team with the ambition of getting into the Champions league every season we should be beating the likes of Sunderland and getting atleast 18 points from the 6 big games.
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

My point was, as much as we should be beating them, to expect a demolition job just because it was Sunderland is wrong as any team, going by results this season, has almost as much chance of beating any other.

Alright, good point mate. I can live with that. ;)
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

The thing is being a novice Sherwood was always going to make mistakes, its how he learns from them in the coming years. However, this was never going to be the place to be able to be given the opportunity to learn as both our fans and chairmans' expectations in general are higher than perhaps they should be, and combining this with the fact some having a very odd dislike for the guy he was never going to have a real chance. If a proven manager had come in and the team had performed identically as they have under Sherwood I guarantee more allowances would have been made and most would have been happy to give the guy a chance to mould his own team with a full pre season etc.

Yep, if LVG comes I reckon some will be quite patient. And yet, you'd think more immediate results and 'extraordinary' things would be expected of him, than that of a rookie taking over mid-season. The Ledley King analogy is interesting. Also think if someone like Mourinho ever came here - a 'proven' manager - he'd get less time than LVG. You'd hear stuff like 'I don't care what Mourinho did in the past, that doesn't really help us much, how long is he going to live off past glories?'.
 
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Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Sorry if not surprised to hear that Tim has (effectively) been sacked. The gutter press absolutely mauled him for his antics on the touchline but imo his record on paper holds up pretty well. True we were just as s***e against the big boys this season as with AVB, but we were mostly much more enterprising and entertaining against weaker sides than that miserable Portuguese bloke.

Verdict: Will miss his passion and positivity but he didn't really stand a chance.
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Never a dull moment...

http://www.theguardian.com/media/greenslade/2014/apr/09/dailymail-news-photography?CMP=twt_gu
The Daily Mail has conceded that the picture manipulation I reported on yesterday was "an editorial mistake", according to Press Gazette.

The image showed Tottenham footballer Emmanuel Adebayor saluting manager Tim Sherwood after he had scored a goal during Tottenham's 5-1 defeat of Sunderland.

But the Mail - unlike The Guardian and the Daily Telegraph - deleted the man standing next to Sherwood, a member of Spurs' coaching squad, Chris Ramsey.

A spokesman for the Daily Mail quoted by Press Gazette said it was not the paper's policy to manipulate news images and that it had been a "mistake". An internal investigation is underway.
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Yep, if LVG comes I reckon some will be quite patient. And yet, you'd think more immediate results and 'extraordinary' things would be expected of him, than that of a rookie taking over mid-season. The Ledley King analogy is interesting. Also think if someone like Mourinho ever came here - a 'proven' manager - he'd get less time than LVG. You'd hear stuff like 'I don't care what Mourinho did in the past, that doesn't really help us much, how long is he going to live off past glories?'.

I can guarantee you that the same Spurs fans who are baying for Sherwood's blood (despite his excellent PL record) will use every excuse in the book to plead for the new manager to be given more time, no matter how well or badly he's done.
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Sorry if not surprised to hear that Tim has (effectively) been sacked. The gutter press absolutely mauled him for his antics on the touchline but imo his record on paper holds up pretty well. True we were just as s***e against the big boys this season as with AVB, but we were mostly much more enterprising and entertaining against weaker sides than that miserable Portuguese bloke.

Verdict: Will miss his passion and positivity but he didn't really stand a chance.

Not sure I completely agree with this bit. Granted, I don't take much time out to read the gutter press, but I think the reaction to Sherwood from Spurs fans was worse than the press. If anything I think he was given an easy ride from some corners due to connections he has
 
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Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I can guarantee you that the same Spurs fans who are baying for Sherwood's blood (despite his excellent PL record) will use every excuse in the book to plead for the new manager to be given more time, no matter how well or badly he's done.


because?


anyway long term managers with experience you can draw on will always be viewed differently than an interim manager with no experience whatsoever - that's just common sense
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I can guarantee you that the same Spurs fans who are baying for Sherwood's blood (despite his excellent PL record) will use every excuse in the book to plead for the new manager to be given more time, no matter how well or badly he's done.

For me it's common sense. People overcomplicate it on here. You either like someone or you don't. You as a fan have a gut feel for whether you feel someone is right for the club or isn't. If you like that someone, you'd naturally want him to have more time. If not, well it's fairly simple.
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I would put to you that you would give Ledley credit where credit is due though, something you will never do for TS.

But anyways, that's a bit of a pointless discussion which has been done to death by now. I think it's fairly well established (and not actually denied by you) that the reasons you won't give him any credit for anything are nothing to do with football.

That and the fact that he doesn't deserve any.
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

because?


anyway long term managers with experience you can draw on will always be viewed differently than an interim manager with no experience whatsoever - that's just common sense

Exactly. Surely it's obvious why someone with a track record deserves more time to get it right as opposed to someone that has none?
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Exactly. Surely it's obvious why someone with a track record deserves more time to get it right as opposed to someone that has none?

But isn't the opposite even more true?

Someone with vast experience shouldn't need as long as a novice to get things right.
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

But isn't the opposite even more true?

Someone with vast experience shouldn't need as long as a novice to get things right.

no - different strokes for different folks...

how long of a time period are you giving either manager before deciding on whether they have got it right or not?
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

no - different strokes for different folks...

how long of a time period are you giving either manager before deciding on whether they have got it right or not?

Minimum of a full season, including a full pre-season to sort-out tactics and transfers.
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

The difference is this. Sherwood has no track record and as such there is no reference for us to look at and say that he would make something of our team. There is a massive risk in giving him an entire two years un pressured as he could show no signs of advancing and our club could go backwards. Another coach with past managerial experience could walk in and be given the same time and fail, but there is less chance of it happening, especially if we hire someone with a history of success.

It simply comes down to this. Do people want to take a massive risk that has every chance of back firing, or do people want to take a safer route that has more chance of success?
Given the same odds would you bet your money on the thoroughbred with race titles to its name on a course it knows or do you bet on the untested youngster in its first year of racing??
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

AVB/Sherwood contrast hints at English football's fear of change

Tim Sherwood had a beaming smile on his face as he said it.

Tottenham's press officer had already warned the assembled throng of journalists to cease and desist with the questions about his future. Less probing about where he stands, please, and more about the 5-1 victory over Sunderland, if you could. One sneaked through the net.

Does he, came the enquiry, believe he is the right man to lead the White Hart Lane side forward beyond this season? "I think I'm the best manager this club's ever had," Sherwood replied. From the look on his face, he was joking. At least, I think he was joking. He's not short on confidence, Tim Sherwood.

In his defence, there is at least one statistic that would back his assertion up if it turned out he was serious. It has been produced over the last few days to outline the folly of Spurs -- as they will -- dispensing with Sherwood in the summer.

The stat is this: Sherwood has the best win percentage of any Spurs manager in the Premier League era. He has emerged with three points from 58.8 percent of his 17 games in charge. His nearest challenger has 53.7 percent, albeit from a much larger sample of 54 games.

This is made more intriguing by the identity of the man in second place: Andre Villas-Boas, the man Sherwood replaced, the man who was chased out of north London, branded a charlatan and a fraud, told by all and sundry he is too young, too callow, too cold, too scientific, too arrogant to be a top-class manager.

That means that when Villas-Boas was sacked in December, he was in the same position as Sherwood is now: he was Spurs' most successful manager of the last 20 years in terms of results.

And so why, when Villas-Boas departed, was there no wailing and moaning and gnashing of teeth? Where was the statistic proving how well he had done in his 18 months at Tottenham then? Why did he leave in a fire-storm of criticism? Why, when he returned to the world of gainful employment at Zenit St Petersburg, was the general reaction that he had hoodwinked another club? Why was he not afforded the same treatment as Sherwood: painted as a victim of a cruel and callous regime, a young coach with big ideas and big plans who deserved more of a shot?

Is it because of that slender difference in their win ratios? Is it because Villas-Boas sidelined Emmanuel Adebayor, whereas Sherwood has embraced him and reaped the rewards? Is it because Villas-Boas was not popular among the players? Is it because his tactics were not working, or his vision for the club was flawed?

None of these adequately explains it.

The difference in their win ratios is five per cent -- substantial enough -- but their sample sizes are not comparable. Villas-Boas sidelined Adebayor, but then Sherwood has hardly made an effort to incorporate some of Spurs' expensive summer signings; he has disclosed privately that there are five of them he just does not rate.

Villas-Boas commanded some loyalty among his squad -- so, too, does Sherwood -- and no manager is ever universally popular. In terms of tactics and vision, Villas-Boas was not perfect, but few would suggest that Sherwood -- in his first job in management -- is.

So, then, is it age? Well, possibly, but for all the Sherwood is seven years older, he has substantially less experience: Villas-Boas, after all, came to Spurs having managed four clubs with varying degrees of success; Sherwood was on zero.

There is one other explanation, and it is one Villas-Boas hinted at while he was still at White Hart Lane. The Portuguese was a little confused as to why he was under so much pressure when Manchester United, the reigning champions, seemed to be escaping the media spotlight.

"For the champions of England to be sitting in their position, there has not been a lot of drama," he said, at a time when David Moyes' side were eighth in the Premier League. "I was involved in another club before and there was more drama surrounding my results than Man United's results."

That means one of three things: expectations are higher at Chelsea than United (not true), there is a personal agenda against Villas-Boas (possible, but incomplete) or -- and this is the one Villas-Boas himself would go for -- foreign coaches get a rougher time of it in England than their home-grown counterparts.

The contrasting treatment of the Portuguese and Sherwood certainly suggests that there is something in that. In fact, a flick through the history of imported managers in the Premier League provides reams of circumstantial supporting evidence.

Claudio Ranieri was widely derided as the "Tinkerman" for his habit of mixing and matching his players. Rafael Benitez was labelled cynical, cold and defensive for his 4-2-3-1 formation -- pretty much de rigeur in the Premier League these days -- and foolish for his obsession with zonal marking. So, too, was Luiz Felipe Scolari. Juande Ramos, like Villas-Boas and Michael Laudrup, was dismissed as unable to establish a dressing room rapport with his players.

The pattern that emerges is clear: the automatic reaction to a foreign manager seems to be suspicion, followed swiftly by derision and then vindication as his reign comes to an end. Never mind that everyone rotates now, that loads of teams play a 4-2-3-1 and that zonal marking is as common as man-to-man*; Ranieri, Benitez and the like were always destined to fail, because this is England and in England, that is not the way we do things.

(*Ranieri and Benitez did not invent these concepts, obviously, They did not even introduce them to England. But they were associated with these strange new ideas that would, as received wisdom had it, never catch on.)

The easy conclusion here is that the media is xenophobic. That, though, is too simplistic. For a start, the "media" as it is conceived in the public imagination does not exist. It is constructed of disparate organisations and, within them, hundreds and thousands of individuals, each with their own beliefs and views and all of them doing different jobs.

There are no shadowy meetings at which journalists decide they are going to knife Villas-Boas, say. There is no set agenda. There are as many reporters and writers who have no time for Jose Mourinho as agree with him that he is a supreme being, descended from heaven.

Most of these individuals, moreover, are (relatively) young, open-minded, well-educated individuals -- even Iain Macintosh. They are as unlikely to be xenophobes as they are racists. Besides, even those few who do resent the cosmopolitan make-up of English football would accept we are through the looking glass: it is no good trying to get rid of one foreigner, because -- like the Hydra -- it would most likely only result in a fresh one arriving.

No, the "media" and the people who constitute it are not xenophobic. The underlying cause is more complex than that. It is, in some way, down to a legitimate and genuine anxiety over whether English coaches are given enough opportunity, though this has always been a personal bugbear: the block on home-grown managerial talent is not imports but the wizened, proven failures who clog up the jobs at the upper end of the Championship.

There are good young coaches in England, lots of them. Yet they are forever destined to remain in the lower tiers -- either of the league or the ranks -- because they cannot get those stepping-stone jobs to alert Premier League sides to their talent; not because there are lots of foreigners, but because people like Stuart Pearce and Neil Warnock are the first names on any club's list of candidates.

That is a symptom of the crucial underlying factor: English football does not like change. It does not like new ideas. It does not appreciate being told that it has been doing things wrong, or that there is a different way to look at things. What unites Ranieri, Benitez and Villas-Boas is not that they are from different countries. It is that they are all ostensibly "other."

There are foreign managers who have come to England and been feted. Arsene Wenger had to endure scepticism at first, but he soon won the country round. Mourinho turned grown adults into love-sick teenagers with but a glance. Why? Partly because they won, and fast; it is hard to argue with results as spectacular as both managed.

But also because they fit our model of a manager. They are foreign, but they are not other. They are of us. We understand them. They want complete control, they are demagogues, they do not come up with complex new ideas or seem to be telling us we are doing things wrong. They do it our way; they just do it better. That is much easier to swallow.

It is hard to think of a better example of this than Sherwood and Villas-Boas: the former all passion and heart and keeping it simple, the latter all data and low blocks and rotating sixes. One is ours, another is different, inexorably different. We get one, and we are sad to see it leave; the other is a mystery we do not want to solve.

http://espnfc.com/blog/_/name/espnfcunited/id/13529?cc=5739
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Umm AVBs win ratio was largely (and luckily) down to Gareth Bale. Article ended.


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