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Tim Sherwood…gone \o/
- Thread starter Gutter Boy
- Start date
Robspur12
Nick Barmby
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach
Surely Tim should get some credit for a 5-1 win, against a team who have beaten both Emirates Marketing Project and Chelsea this season. I have read various posts claiming, "there is no system, no definable way of playing" and "we only win games because we have better players." How is it then we have beaten sides managed by Pochettino (twice) and Martinez (once)? Both are tactically astute, modern managers who I would be happy for us to have as our manager. Tim even managed to play a team managed by Wenger off the park. IMO we have had 3 poor performances, Norwich away. Liverpool away and Benfica at home. I think he was unlucky not to have got a point or more from one of the Arsenal, Chelsea and City games.
Look clearly there are issues with the team - defensively we've been poor all season and we start games too slowly. But to completely write off the fact that he had no preseason or the fact that these were not a set of players put together by him is ridiculous. I think it on balance he should go in the summer but if you look at his time objectively he hasn't been the unmitigated disaster some people would have you believe.
Surely Tim should get some credit for a 5-1 win, against a team who have beaten both Emirates Marketing Project and Chelsea this season. I have read various posts claiming, "there is no system, no definable way of playing" and "we only win games because we have better players." How is it then we have beaten sides managed by Pochettino (twice) and Martinez (once)? Both are tactically astute, modern managers who I would be happy for us to have as our manager. Tim even managed to play a team managed by Wenger off the park. IMO we have had 3 poor performances, Norwich away. Liverpool away and Benfica at home. I think he was unlucky not to have got a point or more from one of the Arsenal, Chelsea and City games.
Look clearly there are issues with the team - defensively we've been poor all season and we start games too slowly. But to completely write off the fact that he had no preseason or the fact that these were not a set of players put together by him is ridiculous. I think it on balance he should go in the summer but if you look at his time objectively he hasn't been the unmitigated disaster some people would have you believe.
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DublinSpur
Scott Parker
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach
This is why I have come round to the idea of getting LVG (if he's willing to come - I still think Utd or another major European force might "do a Willian" on us). The guy is something of a managerial legend and although we've had managers like Ramos and AVB who did, in fairness, win trophies before joining us, we've never really had anyone with LVG's stature - certainly not for a while, not since Levy took over anyway.
It might not work. It might be a disaster. But in a real sense this is new territory for Levy and - if it happens - we should give him credit for getting someone like LVG onboard.
Personally I'm not at all sure LVG is the right fit for Spurs. But I don't have any better suggestions (in retrospect I think Rodgers would have been brilliant for us but that ship has sailed) and I don't think Sherwood is the right man for the job.
This is why I have come round to the idea of getting LVG (if he's willing to come - I still think Utd or another major European force might "do a Willian" on us). The guy is something of a managerial legend and although we've had managers like Ramos and AVB who did, in fairness, win trophies before joining us, we've never really had anyone with LVG's stature - certainly not for a while, not since Levy took over anyway.
It might not work. It might be a disaster. But in a real sense this is new territory for Levy and - if it happens - we should give him credit for getting someone like LVG onboard.
Personally I'm not at all sure LVG is the right fit for Spurs. But I don't have any better suggestions (in retrospect I think Rodgers would have been brilliant for us but that ship has sailed) and I don't think Sherwood is the right man for the job.
metalgear
Luka Modric
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach
yeah we should give him credit when he wins, and blame the players we lose.
yeah we should give him credit when he wins, and blame the players we lose.
Robspur12
Nick Barmby
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach
Nope I think enough of the anti-Sherwood phalanx are willing to blame him too
Nope I think enough of the anti-Sherwood phalanx are willing to blame him too
Cochise
Steve Carr
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach
I think a lot of people (myself included) like to see Tottenham win because they were the better side. At times this season we have won games where on the balance of play I felt we had no right to come away with 3 points, but at the same time we have lost games where we clearly deserved more.
Arsenal at the Emirates is one for me where I felt our play deserved more, whilst with the game at WHL we barely troubled their keeper. We were battered at WHL when Everton came to visit, yet Ade scored a great goal. Then you can look at the day when Tim Krul became Superman and Saudi Sportswashing Machine came away from the Lane wiht a win having been locked in their own half for the best part of 90 minutes.
The point I'm trying to make is that a win is great and Monday night was, I'll happily say fair play to Sherwood and the players because they got it right and it should've been a demolition job. That should not however be enough to mask over the performances against Norwich and Hull away, where the quality of our players should've been enough to come away with all the points.
Sherwood has done a decent job, but he hasn't significantly improved us and whilst I will say that a pre season is important it isn't the be all and end all. Look at Tony Pullis, he has shored up the Crystal Palace defence in a matter of months and they now have one of the best defensive records in the league.
I think a lot of people (myself included) like to see Tottenham win because they were the better side. At times this season we have won games where on the balance of play I felt we had no right to come away with 3 points, but at the same time we have lost games where we clearly deserved more.
Arsenal at the Emirates is one for me where I felt our play deserved more, whilst with the game at WHL we barely troubled their keeper. We were battered at WHL when Everton came to visit, yet Ade scored a great goal. Then you can look at the day when Tim Krul became Superman and Saudi Sportswashing Machine came away from the Lane wiht a win having been locked in their own half for the best part of 90 minutes.
The point I'm trying to make is that a win is great and Monday night was, I'll happily say fair play to Sherwood and the players because they got it right and it should've been a demolition job. That should not however be enough to mask over the performances against Norwich and Hull away, where the quality of our players should've been enough to come away with all the points.
Sherwood has done a decent job, but he hasn't significantly improved us and whilst I will say that a pre season is important it isn't the be all and end all. Look at Tony Pullis, he has shored up the Crystal Palace defence in a matter of months and they now have one of the best defensive records in the league.
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach
The thing is being a novice Sherwood was always going to make mistakes, its how he learns from them in the coming years. However, this was never going to be the place to be able to be given the opportunity to learn as both our fans and chairmans' expectations in general are higher than perhaps they should be, and combining this with the fact some having a very odd dislike for the guy he was never going to have a real chance. If a proven manager had come in and the team had performed identically as they have under Sherwood I guarantee more allowances would have been made and most would have been happy to give the guy a chance to mould his own team with a full pre season etc.
Anyway, I would be happy to see Sherwood go to a Norwich or whoever in the PL and prove himself then come back a few years down the line....
The thing is being a novice Sherwood was always going to make mistakes, its how he learns from them in the coming years. However, this was never going to be the place to be able to be given the opportunity to learn as both our fans and chairmans' expectations in general are higher than perhaps they should be, and combining this with the fact some having a very odd dislike for the guy he was never going to have a real chance. If a proven manager had come in and the team had performed identically as they have under Sherwood I guarantee more allowances would have been made and most would have been happy to give the guy a chance to mould his own team with a full pre season etc.
Anyway, I would be happy to see Sherwood go to a Norwich or whoever in the PL and prove himself then come back a few years down the line....
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach
Why's there something wrong with that?
If a manager has been successful in the past then we have good reason to think that manager is likely to be successful in the future. If the manager has been babysitting our kids for a couple of years then we have no reason (other than blind faith against all the evidence of everything he says) to believe he will be successful.
Why's there something wrong with that?
If a manager has been successful in the past then we have good reason to think that manager is likely to be successful in the future. If the manager has been babysitting our kids for a couple of years then we have no reason (other than blind faith against all the evidence of everything he says) to believe he will be successful.
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach
At the moment everyone does the opposite of that though.
At the moment everyone does the opposite of that though.
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach
Why?
This is a team that has beaten City and Chelsea so please explain why it "should've been a demolition job"
Why?
This is a team that has beaten City and Chelsea so please explain why it "should've been a demolition job"
Millsy_Yiddo
Naybet
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach
So if Ledley King had taken over and his record and our performances were identical to Sherwood's you'd be pushing just as hard to get him out then?
So if Ledley King had taken over and his record and our performances were identical to Sherwood's you'd be pushing just as hard to get him out then?
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach
Well it hasn't worked out too well with our previous esteemed managers has it, its not just about track records but how good a fit the manager is for a specific club. Not that they shouldn't be given a chance, but Sherwood has obviously proved himself at lower levels at Spurs, I just think it would have been fairer to judge him after he's got his own players in and having a pre season with everyone and starting from scratch like any other manager would have been given the opportunity to do. At the end of the season, after all this apparent turmoil you will look at the table and what we've accumulated under him and think actually he did a decent job. Well, at least those judging him fairly would...
Well it hasn't worked out too well with our previous esteemed managers has it, its not just about track records but how good a fit the manager is for a specific club. Not that they shouldn't be given a chance, but Sherwood has obviously proved himself at lower levels at Spurs, I just think it would have been fairer to judge him after he's got his own players in and having a pre season with everyone and starting from scratch like any other manager would have been given the opportunity to do. At the end of the season, after all this apparent turmoil you will look at the table and what we've accumulated under him and think actually he did a decent job. Well, at least those judging him fairly would...
Cochise
Steve Carr
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach
Maybe you misunderstand. I don't say it based on the fact that they beat City and Chelsea, I say it based on the team that we played against. Sunderland were well and truly aweful Monday night. We had them locked in their own half for most of the game and we really should've had a couple of goals at HT. They are low on confidence and capitulated the moment the third goal went in, yet there were still more opportunities.
Maybe you misunderstand. I don't say it based on the fact that they beat City and Chelsea, I say it based on the team that we played against. Sunderland were well and truly aweful Monday night. We had them locked in their own half for most of the game and we really should've had a couple of goals at HT. They are low on confidence and capitulated the moment the third goal went in, yet there were still more opportunities.
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach
I'd be pushing partly as hard as I am.
As you know, I don't want Timmeh as our manager for two reasons:
1) I think he's a **** - he's publicly insulted the club on a number of occasions and can't keep his flappy gob shut whenevers there's a microphone waved in front of it.
2) He has no experience and much of what he says leads me to believe he needs a huge amount more before he could be considered
So take away reason one with Ledley and reason 2 still exists. I wouldn't be pushing as hard, but I'd still be pushing.
I'd be pushing partly as hard as I am.
As you know, I don't want Timmeh as our manager for two reasons:
1) I think he's a **** - he's publicly insulted the club on a number of occasions and can't keep his flappy gob shut whenevers there's a microphone waved in front of it.
2) He has no experience and much of what he says leads me to believe he needs a huge amount more before he could be considered
So take away reason one with Ledley and reason 2 still exists. I wouldn't be pushing as hard, but I'd still be pushing.
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach
That's not really a fair comparison. Sunderland had gone 7 games in row without a win and were bottom of the league before our game.
Yes, they beat a heavily thinned out Chelsea side in the carling cup. In extra time. And yes, they beat City in November, who'd been having real problems playing away at that point, losing to Cardiff amongst others.That's just the nature of the Premier League. You get odd results every now and then. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't have expected us to win the game comfortably...
If we don't expect us to comfortably win the lowest side in the Premier League, at home might I add, we should just start watching cricket or something.
That's not really a fair comparison. Sunderland had gone 7 games in row without a win and were bottom of the league before our game.
Yes, they beat a heavily thinned out Chelsea side in the carling cup. In extra time. And yes, they beat City in November, who'd been having real problems playing away at that point, losing to Cardiff amongst others.That's just the nature of the Premier League. You get odd results every now and then. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't have expected us to win the game comfortably...
If we don't expect us to comfortably win the lowest side in the Premier League, at home might I add, we should just start watching cricket or something.
Rorschach
Ricky Villa
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach
I just had a look over Sunderland's remaining fixtures and they are very tough. They look fooked to me.
Sunderland v Everton
Emirates Marketing Project v Sunderland
Chelsea v Sunderland
Sunderland v Cardiff
Man Utd v Sunderland
Sunderland v West Brom
Sunderland v Swansea
To stand any chance of staying up they will have to probably win their all their home matches and maybe one away match too. Big ask to be sure considering their current form, and they have to be looking at the Everton match as a must win. At this stage I can't decide whether I want Everton to win that match or not :-k
I just had a look over Sunderland's remaining fixtures and they are very tough. They look fooked to me.
Sunderland v Everton
Emirates Marketing Project v Sunderland
Chelsea v Sunderland
Sunderland v Cardiff
Man Utd v Sunderland
Sunderland v West Brom
Sunderland v Swansea
To stand any chance of staying up they will have to probably win their all their home matches and maybe one away match too. Big ask to be sure considering their current form, and they have to be looking at the Everton match as a must win. At this stage I can't decide whether I want Everton to win that match or not :-k
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach
My point was, as much as we should be beating them, to expect a demolition job just because it was Sunderland is wrong as any team, going by results this season, has almost as much chance of beating any other.
My point was, as much as we should be beating them, to expect a demolition job just because it was Sunderland is wrong as any team, going by results this season, has almost as much chance of beating any other.
Cochise
Steve Carr
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach
Prior to the game I never expected nor asked for a demolition job. It was after the first 20 minutes that I thought we should be demolishing them, given the way they were setup and playing.
Prior to the game I never expected nor asked for a demolition job. It was after the first 20 minutes that I thought we should be demolishing them, given the way they were setup and playing.
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach
61% of possession, 29 shots, 8 on target, 5 goals. Not quite a demolition but not far from it.
61% of possession, 29 shots, 8 on target, 5 goals. Not quite a demolition but not far from it.