Tim Sherwood…gone \o/

[BrainOfLevy]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I still don't rate Tim as a manager (yet), although I don't blame him for taking the job and feel he needed more qualifications before doing so and that it was a lazy idea by Levy to give him the reins. But...

I have lots more respect for him now I've heard his post match interview. None of this 'we were unlucky' ******** most managers would spout, he laid down the law and I for one agree with him. He was bang on the money as far as I'm concerned, I watched about half our players just not show any care in the world/give up and it is really painful to see as a fan.

The unfortunate thing is modern footballers don't react well to criticism so this could really kill our season but I'm glad he stood up for the club and held the players responsible today cos we were doing a decent job but once things went against us the players lied down and took it up the ****, which is frankly disturbing to watch.

P.S. BrainOfLevy, glad to see you around again, you hadn't posted in awhile. You kept ensuring us that Liverpool and Arsenal would drop off around February and that we would take advantage, you were very convincing to some people, but like I said that just never looked like happening and looks like I was right. Still reckon this average team with an underqualified manager has a chance of 4th? I'd take 5th right now, absolutely no qualms about it, cos I could foresee a situation where Everton and Man United overtake us TBH.

I don't think we have a chance of 4th and haven't for a whole, hence my interest diminishing to the point where I haven't bothered to post. I genuinely am so dossapointed with the people running the club and have been for a while. My interest was peaked by Tim Sherwood saying what I've felt for a few months. I'll freely admit I over estimated our chances early on in the season but it has become pretty clear Levy and Lewis put stupid expectations on the playing stuff for this season and have probably set us back a year or two. And on a season when Man United have left a gaping hole in the top 4, that is criminal.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

In what respect does Levy not have a clue BOL? In terms of making us the 14th richest club in the world despite only having been in the champions league once, moderate success and a relatively small stadium? Or in his time overseeing us having consistently been involved in European football, 4x5th place finishes and 2x4th place finishes? No you're right AVB is the clever guy despite having the man management skills of a Vlad Putin on an Ukranian away day.

Great business man yes. Allowing us to putt par for the course as a football club? Yep, most seasons we will do that. Over achieving against more financially endorsed rivals? We haven't for a chance as long as Levy continues the behaviour he has exhibited for the last 10 to be honest.

Sad thing is my username was created because I had complete faith in him. This season I have completely lost it. I've realised he has made the same mistakes again and again, and I simply don't trust his judgement in a football matter anymore.

 

[Lilywhite]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I don't think we have a chance of 4th and haven't for a whole, hence my interest diminishing to the point where I haven't bothered to post. I genuinely am so dossapointed with the people running the club and have been for a while. My interest was peaked by Tim Sherwood saying what I've felt for a few months. I'll freely admit I over estimated our chances early on in the season but it has become pretty clear Levy and Lewis put stupid expectations on the playing stuff for this season and have probably set us back a year or two. And on a season when Man United have left a gaping hole in the top 4, that is criminal.

Yep. Harking back to the summer...

ARSENAL - depressing vibes. Hadn't splashed out at all prior to the season's kickoff and had instead wasted time pursuing targets such as Higuain/Suarez/Rooney. Having only just made CL football twice in a row it was a general sense of 'they will fall out this year'

LIVERPOOL - had ended Rodgers' first year there on a high playing nice stuff but even most their fans seemed to think there was too big a gap to bridge so soon in his reign. They didn't strengthen the first team a great deal either

MAN UNITED - dunno about others but I predicted they wouldn't finish top three (admittedly thought we would finish 3rd - although we did have Bale still at the time of said prediction!). Never felt Moyes was the right man and saw it as a chance they would drop off

Forget the crooks Emirates Marketing Project and Chelsea, the above three are the biggest clubs in this country and yet none of them looked set for doing very well by their standards this season so I saw it as a great opportunity for us to finish top of the non-crooks league which would have course have ensured CL football at the Lane while two of the above missed out, which would affect their revenue significantly. Alas, not...

TBF I saw the signs early. Said after a month that AVB just didn't inspire me with confidence, his team created very few chances and was just a load of physical players. Had sympathy when he got sacked but saw it as the right decision. I quite like Tim as a person but said at the time it was a disaster of a decision to bring him in, we were still in a decent enough position regards to the top four to make a tilt at it with a bit of luck and a strong managerial appointment.

I don't think people realise how long this horror season will set us back though. l'**** and Liverpool will finish in the top four, buy a couple more quality internationals each to strengthen their hold over us and Man United will improve a lot, no question. We have blown our chance and it is extremely sad.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Lilywhite, to add to my point, my belief that Liverpool a Arsenal would drop off was built on a belief that their squads were not much better than ours, and I thought the form would even itself out over the season.

In terms of squad talent, I still believe it. The talent in our squad is ridiculous. But Liverpool are so much more of a team than we are. So are Arsenal. And they have players much more accustomed to playing in the PL than we do.

I'm just so angry with Levy. as Sherwood said, this game was a wake up call for the club. Tactically he is fine, he gets it. I can see that. Character of the squad is shocking though. I don't think it's because we have bad players, more that they need to settle and feel comfortable, but I still blame Levy for setting the expectations that meant we have lost a good manager in AVB (who i am absolutely sure realised Levy just wasn't the smart football executive he originally thought he was) and he will probably lose another good manager in Sherwood because of it. And he will hang our hopes on LVG (who knows his ****) but will probably leave because he's so old and will be gone in a few years anyway.

 

[Lilywhite]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I'm not sure pal. We have lots of decent-to-good players, but very few (if any) great ones. Arsenal have a far better defence and midfield than us, that's not even debatable unfortunately, Lloris is better than their **** in goal but none of our defenders would get in to their back four, only Vertonghen would even come close. Sandro would be just ahead of Flamini if a combined XI had a holding midfielder I guess. I'd take a motivated Adebayor over Giroud though. Then with Liverpool, we may get a couple of defenders in there but I'm really not sure about the midfield, theirs seems much more cohesive and obv our attack isn't close.

Our squad options are mostly better than Liverpool's and possibly Arsenal's in some areas, but looking at it impartially now it's clear to see we got carried away back in August with the usual pre-season optimism and have fallen flat on our faces. A real shame.

 

[veron23]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Yep. Harking back to the summer...

ARSENAL - depressing vibes. Hadn't splashed out at all prior to the season's kickoff and had instead wasted time pursuing targets such as Higuain/Suarez/Rooney. Having only just made CL football twice in a row it was a general sense of 'they will fall out this year'

LIVERPOOL - had ended Rodgers' first year there on a high playing nice stuff but even most their fans seemed to think there was too big a gap to bridge so soon in his reign. They didn't strengthen the first team a great deal either

MAN UNITED - dunno about others but I predicted they wouldn't finish top three (admittedly thought we would finish 3rd - although we did have Bale still at the time of said prediction!). Never felt Moyes was the right man and saw it as a chance they would drop off

Forget the crooks Emirates Marketing Project and Chelsea, the above three are the biggest clubs in this country and yet none of them looked set for doing very well by their standards this season so I saw it as a great opportunity for us to finish top of the non-crooks league which would have course have ensured CL football at the Lane while two of the above missed out, which would affect their revenue significantly. Alas, not...

TBF I saw the signs early. Said after a month that AVB just didn't inspire me with confidence, his team created very few chances and was just a load of physical players. Had sympathy when he got sacked but saw it as the right decision. I quite like Tim as a person but said at the time it was a disaster of a decision to bring him in, we were still in a decent enough position regards to the top four to make a tilt at it with a bit of luck and a strong managerial appointment.

I don't think people realise how long this horror season will set us back though. l'**** and Liverpool will finish in the top four, buy a couple more quality internationals each to strengthen their hold over us and Man United will improve a lot, no question. We have blown our chance and it is extremely sad.

I realise it and said it many times.

there is still hope however
1) Arsenal - with Wengers ignorant ways its still possible they could decline
2) Liverpool - Suarez leaving and they will suffer the same as we did with Bale
3) Man Utd - managed by Moyes.. enough said

With the above combined with Lamela, Eriksen and Paulinho blossoming plus Kaboul and Vertongen stay and stay fit plus buying a couple more players then we will be competing.

 

[Lilywhite]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Unfortunately I don't share your optimism.

Arsenal look to have learnt their lesson, I know they didn't sign anyone of note in January but you can be certain they finally bring in a top striker this summer.
Liverpool will keep Suarez should they, as looks likely, get CL football.
Man United are indeed managed by Moyes but there is no way even he will have them do worse than they have this season. They will improve.

Top five looks a lock for next year if you ask me. We're going to be selling the likes of Lloris and Vertonghen, possibly along with players like Lamela and Adebayor and will need another transitional period. Sigh.

 

[Craig_J]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I don't think we have a chance of 4th and haven't for a whole, hence my interest diminishing to the point where I haven't bothered to post. I genuinely am so dossapointed with the people running the club and have been for a while. My interest was peaked by Tim Sherwood saying what I've felt for a few months. I'll freely admit I over estimated our chances early on in the season but it has become pretty clear Levy and Lewis put stupid expectations on the playing stuff for this season and have probably set us back a year or two. And on a season when Man United have left a gaping hole in the top 4, that is criminal.

I agree with this post, least to a certain degree. Levy I have backed to high heaven (if not higher) over the past 7 years where I've been old enough to understand what a chairman actually does.

But a undelivered stadium and 2 director of footballs (not including changes to the system) and 6 managers later and I'm seriously starting to think that he's a man who doesn't know what he's doing.

As for Timmy I always appreciated AVB but still think Tim will be a top manager in future and I love how brutally honest he is. We're full of a load of softies who need a kick up the ****, despite what Hoddle may think (who the hell cares anyway? He's probably at the same management ability, if not less than Sherwood) making it public is exactly what they need and exactly what LVG would do if he was a manager.

I still think that Sherwood's comments rain a lot of truth and that's actually one of the reasons I want LVG here. Only concern I have is that he would BREAK the load of softies we have.

I still hope that we can get LVG and that Sherwood can get a more stable PL job cos I think he's going to make a very good manager in a few years.

 

[thfcsteff]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I think clubs like Man U under Fergie saw having a man sent off as an affront - **** you theyd say and itd make them raise their game.

We just see it as an excuse. We just lose interest and start thinking about what gel to use in the shower after the game.

Redknapp said something insightful in that he told Levy that sometimes its not always about buying the best players but the best characters too.

Scott Parker was never the best player but he was a leader and not one to give up if we went 2-0 down or had a guy sent off.

I think whover gets the hotseat this summer really needs to inject some stronger characters in the team.

A bit of menace like Roy Keane wouldnt go amiss

It's a great post but it could apply to any time in the last 20 years…or more!

 

[Mosquito_Coasting]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Yep. Harking back to the summer...

ARSENAL - depressing vibes. Hadn't splashed out at all prior to the season's kickoff and had instead wasted time pursuing targets such as Higuain/Suarez/Rooney. Having only just made CL football twice in a row it was a general sense of 'they will fall out this year'

LIVERPOOL - had ended Rodgers' first year there on a high playing nice stuff but even most their fans seemed to think there was too big a gap to bridge so soon in his reign. They didn't strengthen the first team a great deal either

MAN UNITED - dunno about others but I predicted they wouldn't finish top three (admittedly thought we would finish 3rd - although we did have Bale still at the time of said prediction!). Never felt Moyes was the right man and saw it as a chance they would drop off

Forget the crooks Emirates Marketing Project and Chelsea, the above three are the biggest clubs in this country and yet none of them looked set for doing very well by their standards this season so I saw it as a great opportunity for us to finish top of the non-crooks league which would have course have ensured CL football at the Lane while two of the above missed out, which would affect their revenue significantly. Alas, not...

TBF I saw the signs early. Said after a month that AVB just didn't inspire me with confidence, his team created very few chances and was just a load of physical players. Had sympathy when he got sacked but saw it as the right decision. I quite like Tim as a person but said at the time it was a disaster of a decision to bring him in, we were still in a decent enough position regards to the top four to make a tilt at it with a bit of luck and a strong managerial appointment.

I don't think people realise how long this horror season will set us back though. l'**** and Liverpool will finish in the top four, buy a couple more quality internationals each to strengthen their hold over us and Man United will improve a lot, no question. We have blown our chance and it is extremely sad.

We seem to blow our chance every year though, so I'm sure another one will come along sometime soon.

 

[scaramanga]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Why compare him to managers who are out of our league? Could he do as well or better than managers who have been in our league namely, Jol, Ramos, redknapp or AVB? Quite possibly.

Because those are the managers he needs to be (much) better than for us to win things as our spend is so much lower. Other Spurs failures are utterly irrelevant - he needs to be (much) better than those above us and it's incredibly unlikely he'll even get close.

 

[Mr Gogolak]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I've been lurking for a while now and I have to say that I'm somewhat surprised to see how most people read the current situation. We all seem to agree that it's a miracle we're still in the top 6 (though that won't last) but I seem to be only to pu that on feat on the quality of our current squad. How many games have we won because one of our guys changed the course of the game with of great move/pass/shot?

Unfortunately, that seemed to be the extent of AVB's tactics for the season: keep the ball as long as possible and wait for someone to score. It might have worked if Soldado had scored 20+ goals. He didn't and it didn't.

The funny thing is, Sherwood went the exact opposite and he's not doing any better.

My guess is, whoever takes charge next summer will get better results, as long as he's clever enough to keep most of the current set up. Despite the lack of gameplan and stability, the players we've bought are getting used to the pace of the PL. With a couple of decent signings and a better manager, I wouldn't put it past us to challenge for the Top 5 again.

The only drawback is that, in the meantime, we'll have to watch that dross for another couple of months. At this stage, I don't think there's anything anyone can do to rescue our season because we're going to play against teams with a tried and trusted system. A new man in charge would hopefully lift the players' spirits for next season. It's always tempting to chop and change when things don't go according to plan but I wouldn't do that in this particular case.

Oddly enough, I credit the players (though it was often one at a time) for keeping us in it for so long. But there's only so much a quality yet relatively inexperienced team can do.

 

[Robspur12]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Because those are the managers he needs to be (much) better than for us to win things as our spend is so much lower. Other Spurs failures are utterly irrelevant - he needs to be (much) better than those above us and it's incredibly unlikely he'll even get close.

The only manager who has bettered Jose Mourinho on a regular basis is Pep Guardiola. Wenger cannot better Pellegrini and Mourinho does that make him a bad manager? Martinez is an excellent manager but it is unlikely he will better mourinho should we reject him? You are setting Tim an unrealistic target. The managers with the greatest resources at their disposal WILL win the top honours. Even if we brought in Van gaal the odds of us winning the PL are long indeed. Therefore why not give Tim a chance to prove how good he can be.

 

[NWND]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

You can't have players in a new position without expecting mistakes.

Huge gamble by Sherwood didn't pay off, worse than avb IMO as he didn't pay heed to our previous encounter, and threw caution to the wind.

What's crazy is that we were fighting 100% in the midfield with everyone there...no one in attack and a high defensive line that could leave us vulnerable. So it was pretty much a melee, and we wouldn't be able to orchestrate an attack with all those new players in their new roles.....so it was something to lose.

Focal point of Chelsea was Sandro he was overwhelmed in midfield , had to cover a lot In defence, yet no help from Bentaleb , no call to drop the line deeper.

Mourinho played a two half game...as we have seen many times this season. Clearly daring with half time substitution was able to capitalize on our weakness in the centre. Sherwood did not respond and we were under even more pressure, that forced the mistakes.

Did Sherwood apologize for his selection and tactics that failed?

Exactly, those tactics were only going to work while it was 0-0 but likely to be overrun as soon as we conceeded

 

[Robspur12]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Exactly, those tactics were only going to work while it was 0-0 but likely to be overrun as soon as we conceeded

Vertonghen slipped under no pressure, Kaboul was busy tying his shoe laces and not alert to the yawning gap between him and verts. Kaboul had one of his customary brain fart moments despite posters lauding him as the "answer" to our defensive problems. Perhaps once we went down to 1-0 Tim could have changed the formation but looking at the bench there was no creative player on it. Had he gone to 442 and we got muellered he would have been destroyed on here. So again what should he have done differently from the beginning that would have prevented the vertonghen mistake because that was the turning point?

 

[scaramanga]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

The only manager who has bettered Jose Mourinho on a regular basis is Pep Guardiola. Wenger cannot better Pellegrini and Mourinho does that make him a bad manager? Martinez is an excellent manager but it is unlikely he will better mourinho should we reject him? You are setting Tim an unrealistic target. The managers with the greatest resources at their disposal WILL win the top honours. Even if we brought in Van gaal the odds of us winning the PL are long indeed. Therefore why not give Tim a chance to prove how good he can be.

We can't win so let's not bother trying? No thanks.

There are better managers out there - one of the best keeps lifting his skirt for us.

As for Wenger, he's clearly not good enough for what we need, he has more money at Woolwich and still doesn't win anything, Martinez has actually won something lately but I certainly don't see anything that suggests he'll do that on a regular basis.

I'm not setting Timmeh an unrealistic target for a top manager. It may be unrealistic for the YTS boy, but that's a staff problem not a target problem. It's also the only target - otherwise what are we all doing supporting a football club? Shall we settle for Wenger's 4th place trophy every year?

 

[NWND]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Unfortunately I don't share your optimism.

Arsenal look to have learnt their lesson, I know they didn't sign anyone of note in January but you can be certain they finally bring in a top striker this summer.
Liverpool will keep Suarez should they, as looks likely, get CL football.
Man United are indeed managed by Moyes but there is no way even he will have them do worse than they have this season. They will improve.

Top five looks a lock for next year if you ask me. We're going to be selling the likes of Lloris and Vertonghen, possibly along with players like Lamela and Adebayor and will need another transitional period. Sigh.

Well IMO a lot depends on the managerial appointment. A LOT can change.

If a strong manager like LVG comes in the slates immediately clean, the press and other teams would immediately see us as a potential threat again rather than a laughing
stock, players might be persuaded to stay or at least we would be strong enough to say that they are staying, a plan would be put in place by an experienced and strong manager to get the most out of the team, i think one or two well chosen signings to add a stronger spine and we would be motoring. If the likes of Eriksen and Lamela are more integrated having a full pre season
and a year to adjust we will be back up there.

 

[90sSpursBook]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Tim has tried the nicely nicely approach before and deflected blame from the players in public and yesterday is what he got as a result.

What he does recognise which few of us seem to is that a succesful team will be made up of technically gifted players and grafters. All the best teams in this country have had some average footballers who have supplemented the technical players e.g. Man U have always had an O'Shea, Fletcher or Phil Neville. L'**** won titles with Parlour, Keown etc.

The problem we have right now is that there are only a couple of players who have both the ability and the desire and who are in good form/fitness - perhaps just Ade and Lloris.

We only see what happens on the pitch, and not on the training ground, in the changing room and on the coach.

 

[Robspur12]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

We can't win so let's not bother trying? No thanks.

There are better managers out there - one of the best keeps lifting his skirt for us.

As for Wenger, he's clearly not good enough for what we need, he has more money at Woolwich and still doesn't win anything, Martinez has actually won something lately but I certainly don't see anything that suggests he'll do that on a regular basis.

I'm not setting Timmeh an unrealistic target for a top manager. It may be unrealistic for the YTS boy, but that's a staff problem not a target problem. It's also the only target - otherwise what are we all doing supporting a football club? Shall we settle for Wenger's 4th place trophy every year?

You'll have a long wait then with your target, probably another 50 years. A more realistic target is regular top 4 and nick the occasional cup. Then rebuild the stadium and, with the additional resources realistically challenge for a title. Not expect a manager to come in and instantly do that with the resources currently at our disposal.

 

[scaramanga]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

You'll have a long wait then with your target, probably another 50 years. A more realistic target is regular top 4 and nick the occasional cup. Then rebuild the stadium and, with the additional resources realistically challenge for a title. Not expect a manager to come in and instantly do that with the resources currently at our disposal.

Sorry to break the news to you, but even with the new stadium we'll still be the 5th (or maybe 6th) richest club in the country. That won't make the difference.

Even if we put a 100K stadium in, we'd still only have less than a thousandth of the available income of Chelsea and City. We still need a manager they will make us better than the sum of our parts.