Tim Sherwood…gone \o/

[SpurMeUp]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

The real issue is that our car is some crappy old Fiesta and we're trying to race Maseratis. That's OK if you put Kimi Raikkonen in the driver's seat, unfortunately we have to keep our L plates on.

Who was AVB if he were a racing? He fancied himself in the Dakar rally.

We've had two different 'drivers' and not dissimilar results. Though to be fair to TS its not easy to change things mid season. I think DHSF has a point.

The biggest problem we have is the changing squad and management. We don't keep our best players, we bring in too many new players without a stable coach in place.

 

[NWND]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

It isnt about buying players. Do you not get it. Buying players will not solve the issue. The issue is inherent. The issue is within the core of the club. Buying players just masks the issues. What youre proposing is akin to painting over a ****in car when the real issue is with the engine.

Dont buy this either. There is nothing wrong with the club.

Weve got a good structure, excellent facilities, excellent finances, good squad, good youth set up.

We are 5th.

Most football analysts agree that league position and amount spent on wages are very much linked. We pay the 8th highest wages in the country behind Utd, City, ****, Chels, Liverpool, Saudi Sportswashing Machine and QPR therefore weve been performing above where we should for most of the last decade.

The issue for me is the lack of effort and resiliance in the performances and the lack of a consistent plan, formation, set-upand plan b.

This is down to the manager.

I can accept losing to Chelsea at Stamford Bridge. Emirates Marketing Project did after all. What i can accept is setting up at there to get a drae and the whole plan falling apart when we concede one ****ing goal and the manager just looking helpkess to change anything and then crying like a baby in the press conference blaming everyone but himself

 

[scaramanga]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Kimi will end up ****ing off after a season when he realises how **** the car is. However a great driver who knows how a car operates and what the real issues are, will be successful. You want to hire a driver rather than the mechanic and the driver. TS I see as both simply because he knows the club inside and our and knows what these real issues are He cant do anything about it now because all this is just temp until the summer.

To keep the analogy going, Timmeh still needs the L plates. He's not a mechanic, he's not a racing driver, he's barely even a driver. We need a better driver than the opposition because we will always have a cheaper car. Even if Timmeh massively outdoes any expectations of him do you really think he'll ever be enough better than Mourinho or Pellegrini to make the difference?

 

[Robspur12]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Eh? We went out on pens vs Basle. No doubt if it was today we would have been dingdonged during extra time.
You have to admit that in the 2012/13 season we hardly ever capitulated, save maybe the 5-2 at the Emirates.
I know people will talk about the 7 point lead vs the Goons, but they had by far an easier run-in compared to us, and fair plays to them, their form after the NLD was almost demonic.

We've had a glorious history of capitulating when iffy/unlucky events happen to us in our games. Funnily enough two of our most derided recent managers were the ones who seemed to be able to put in systems in place to cope admirably when playing with 10 men...TS just seems to be keeping on a long tradition of a soft underbelly when the going gets tough/tricky

We got capitulated twice this season with 10 men under AVB,gg. Not sure Redknapp was any better. That soft underbelly has been there throughout. You may laugh but the last time I saw us play well with 10 men was when Ramos was in charge. That's not a suggestion to bring him back btw

 

[thfcsteff]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

To keep the analogy going, Timmeh still needs the L plates. He's not a mechanic, he's not a racing driver, he's barely even a driver. We need a better driver than the opposition because we will always have a cheaper car. Even if Timmeh massively outdoes any expectations of him do you really think he'll ever be enough better than Mourinho or Pellegrini to make the difference?

It's hard to argue the point here…experience dictates there's only one answer here…the argument would be whether, in time, Sherwood could be that man. We will never know anyway...

 

[Robspur12]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

To keep the analogy going, Timmeh still needs the L plates. He's not a mechanic, he's not a racing driver, he's barely even a driver. We need a better driver than the opposition because we will always have a cheaper car. Even if Timmeh massively outdoes any expectations of him do you really think he'll ever be enough better than Mourinho or Pellegrini to make the difference?

Why compare him to managers who are out of our league? Could he do as well or better than managers who have been in our league namely, Jol, Ramos, redknapp or AVB? Quite possibly.

 

[SpurMeUp]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

To keep the analogy going, Timmeh still needs the L plates. He's not a mechanic, he's not a racing driver, he's barely even a driver. We need a better driver than the opposition because we will always have a cheaper car. Even if Timmeh massively outdoes any expectations of him do you really think he'll ever be enough better than Mourinho or Pellegrini to make the difference?

The point is we don't know. No one possibly can know if he is a great manager in the making. That's why I find it absurd that people write him off before he's had a chance to show what he can do.

Although its a little harsh, TS will have until the end of the season for most (rational) people to make their decision. Its harsh because it takes time to build a team. Set them up how you want them to play, install the ethics you want them to display, then adjust things, maybe add a player or two etc. A rookie Ferguson would never have made it past Scara's criteria. And Mourinho and Pellegrini will take the elite jobs that we don't offer. I'm not sure your logic is 100% sound.

 

[DHSF]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

To keep the analogy going, Timmeh still needs the L plates. He's not a mechanic, he's not a racing driver, he's barely even a driver. We need a better driver than the opposition because we will always have a cheaper car. Even if Timmeh massively outdoes any expectations of him do you really think he'll ever be enough better than Mourinho or Pellegrini to make the difference?

I agree TS does need the L plates but doesnt mean he isnt or wont be a very good or excellent driver/mechanic. I would like us to get in a younger manager ie Tim and let him build something great. I personally have had enough of these two or three year guys - LVG will be just another one through the revolving door - and then what? We always talk about talent and bringing the youth in through but why cant it also be applicable for a young Manager?

Mourinho is a very rare kettle of fish, he is one of the greats. As for Pellegrini - wasnt the League cup the first piece of silverware he has won in his entire career? Hardly success given that he inhereted a billionaires team.

 

[NWND]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

We got capitulated twice this season with 10 men under AVB,gg. Not sure Redknapp was any better. That soft underbelly has been there throughout. You may laugh but the last time I saw us play well with 10 men was when Ramos was in charge. That's not a suggestion to bring him back btw

I think clubs like Man U under Fergie saw having a man sent off as an affront - **** you theyd say and itd make them raise their game.

We just see it as an excuse. We just lose interest and start thinking about what gel to use in the shower after the game.

Redknapp said something insightful in that he told Levy that sometimes its not always about buying the best players but the best characters too.

Scott Parker was never the best player but he was a leader and not one to give up if we went 2-0 down or had a guy sent off.

I think whover gets the hotseat this summer really needs to inject some stronger characters in the team.

A bit of menace like Roy Keane wouldnt go amiss

 

[Robspur12]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Dont buy this either. There is nothing wrong with the club.

Weve got a good structure, excellent facilities, excellent finances, good squad, good youth set up.

We are 5th.

Most football analysts agree that league position and amount spent on wages are very much linked. We pay the 8th highest wages in the country behind Utd, City, ****, Chels, Liverpool, Saudi Sportswashing Machine and QPR therefore weve been performing above where we should for most of the last decade.

The issue for me is the lack of effort and resiliance in the performances and the lack of a consistent plan, formation, set-upand plan b.

This is down to the manager.

I can accept losing to Chelsea at Stamford Bridge. Emirates Marketing Project did after all. What i can accept is setting up at there to get a drae and the whole plan falling apart when we concede one ****ing goal and the manager just looking helpkess to change anything and then crying like a baby in the press conference blaming everyone but himself

What could he have done differently? We saw a very good manager in Martinez get dingdonged at the emirates today. I didn't see anything wrong with the tactics we had stifled them and were holding our own only to be out done by individual errors for the fist goal, rank poor defending for second goal then a laughable capitulation for 2nd and 3rd goals. What could any manager have done there? Mourinho is a tactical genius, one of the best managers in the world not easy to go to a place where he has never lost in the PL and expect to outplay him. What I liked to see was a manager who clearly was not going to accept defeat or look to deflect blame on the ref. Rather he criticised the people who just played like they couldn't give a ****.

 

[SpurMeUp]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I think clubs like Man U under Fergie saw having a man sent off as an affront - **** you theyd say and itd make them raise their game.

We just see it as an excuse. We just lose interest and start thinking about what gel to use in the shower after the game.

Redknapp said something insightful in that he told Levy that sometimes its not always about buying the best players but the best characters too.

Scott Parker was never the best player but he was a leader and not one to give up if we went 2-0 down or had a guy sent off.

I think whover gets the hotseat this summer really needs to inject some stronger characters in the team.

A bit of menace like Roy Keane wouldnt go amiss

By your reasoning, Sherwood fits the brief. The Kenny Dalgliesh school, his post match interview shows he very much agrees with you. For me, the question is, can he do the other things? I think you can get more out of people with encouragement but they need shaking up too. You need to be shocked out of your comfort zone to develop and deliver sometimes. But to improve as a player you need confidence. Especially new players, and we have quite a few.

 

[glorygloryeze]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

We got capitulated twice this season with 10 men under AVB,gg. Not sure Redknapp was any better. That soft underbelly has been there throughout. You may laugh but the last time I saw us play well with 10 men was when Ramos was in charge. That's not a suggestion to bring him back btw

I mainly agree, but last year we were decent whenever we played with ten men imo. Agree also about Ramos being very good with 10 men...funnily enough last week with Dnipro!!

My main point is that this soft underbelly doesn't look like being something that TS can sort out either

 

[DHSF]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

What could he have done differently? We saw a very good manager in Martinez get dingdonged at the emirates today. I didn't see anything wrong with the tactics we had stifled them and were holding our own only to be out done by individual errors for the fist goal, rank poor defending for second goal then a laughable capitulation for 2nd and 3rd goals. What could any manager have done there? What I liked to see was a manager who clearly was not going to accept defeat or look to deflect blame on the ref. Rather he criticised the people who just played like they couldn't give a ****.

I agree

I dont know how TS could have changed anything to prevent the last two mistakes. Of their four goals, three were huge huge mother of all **** up type errors - they were essentially three own goals.

 

[Nigeyman]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I think clubs like Man U under Fergie saw having a man sent off as an affront - **** you theyd say and itd make them raise their game.

We just see it as an excuse. We just lose interest and start thinking about what gel to use in the shower after the game.

Redknapp said something insightful in that he told Levy that sometimes its not always about buying the best players but the best characters too.

Scott Parker was never the best player but he was a leader and not one to give up if we went 2-0 down or had a guy sent off.

I think whover gets the hotseat this summer really needs to inject some stronger characters in the team.

A bit of menace like Roy Keane wouldnt go amiss

I 100% agree with this post...so i am unsure why your having a pop at sherwood's interview.

You want a roy keane mentality...sherwood is of similar ilk...didnt he say he wanted the players to rip into each other??? if I was manager I would have wanted a massive barney after that capitulation...that was tims point in his interview....sort it out in the dressing room....show some passion...show it hurts.

Please remember that Tim has inherited this lot...gawd knows what a hypothetical team of his would look like in a few years...what your reffering to is winning mentality...I think sherwood can help with this.. I also think over his tenure he has done good and bad tactically.

We are in danger of returnung to the inferiority complex we have fought hard to shrug off...where we just take it from the big teams without any fight.

 

[SpurMeUp]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Personally I think I think players performances are down to the manager/manager situation. Not to make excuses for them but an environment of disarray, constant change of management, manager etc etc etc all effects the players purpose when he comes onto the pitch. Its not that players are lazy but when there is no clear direction for the club players naturally dont commit on the pitch as much. Look at RVP for UTD under Fergy and Moyes. Vertonghen is going through the same at spurs as is RVP at UTD. Injuries, in and out the team, different formations different positions, not knowing where the club is going, questioning your teamates position (will he be there next year will he not) etc etc etc all leads to under performing. Spurs is not a "club" at the moment its just a very random cowboy like set up.

Vertonghen is just an example by the way - I personally despise his attitude (and dont actually rate him AS highly as the rest) but its just to make the point. The club needs stability, a manager with a long contract which will subsequently have the players coming on the pitch with more commitment to carry out the tactics.

Chelsea is the polar opposite, they know the manager will be there for a long time and naturally carry out his instructions with 100% vigour. Look at how they played against City. There is no way anybody can convince me Wilian is a good player or better than what we have but he and the rest were sent out against City with complete purpose and commitment which enables them to over perform.

Our players dont play with the same desire because there is nothing to lead them. Its happens in all walks of life and workplace, when employees see the employers are all over the place they naturally think well why should i give a ****.

Chelsea weren't playing that well when Mourinho took over. It took him a while to get the team playing as he like them to. In fact Chelsea are still not playing that well. They are simply hard to beat, with a mass of great attacking talent. Therefore its not rocket science, get them to defend with a good shape, work hard, and then let the talent score. AVB would have like to have achieved something similar but failed.

I think we need to give TS time and get off Verts back. He played well today.

 

[veron23]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

EDIT
Personally I think I think players performances are down to the manager/manager situation. Not to make excuses for them but an environment of disarray, constant change of management, manager etc etc etc all effects the players purpose when he comes onto the pitch. Its not that players are lazy but when there is no clear direction for the club players naturally dont commit on the pitch as much. Look at RVP for UTD under Fergy and Moyes. Vertonghen is going through the same at spurs as is RVP at UTD. Injuries, in and out the team, different formations different positions, not knowing where the club is going, questioning your teamates position (will he be there next year will he not) etc etc etc all leads to under performing. Spurs is not a "club" at the moment its just a very random cowboy like set up.

Vertonghen is just an example by the way - I personally despise his attitude (and dont actually rate him AS highly as the rest) but its just to make the point. The club needs stability, a manager with a long contract which will subsequently have the players coming on the pitch with more commitment to carry out the tactics.

Chelsea is the polar opposite, they know the manager will be there for a long time and naturally carry out his instructions with 100% vigour. Look at how they played against City. There is no way anybody can convince me Wilian is a good player or better than what we have but he and the rest were sent out against City with complete purpose and commitment which enables them to over perform.

Our players dont play with the same desire because there is nothing to lead them. Its happens in all walks of life and workplace, when employees see the employers are all over the place they naturally think well why should i give a ****.

Yes Vertonghen etc could be accused of being lazy but it could also be the fact that Levy cant run the club properly and hasnt realised that giving TS an 18 months contract doesnt have the best effect on the players if they are to question if the manager is going to be here next week or not. regardless of how much money they earn, regardless of how much we like to say just give 100% on the pitch because you owe the fans and get paid millions, they are just human beings and right or wrong instability off the pitc DOES effect how they play on the pitch.

We need stability, we need a leader!!!!!!!!

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I was a big fan of AVB, but let me make it very clear…his REFUSAL to stay and fight, his REFUSAL to convince the board to stick with him, and his REFUSAL to show some real, and I mean REAL, balls when the crunch was on, saw me lose a ****load of respect for him. At the end of the day, he wanted out halfway through the season. He didn't want it enough. Why? Because he'd been ****ed by Baldini? ****ed by Levy? WHOEVER he was ****ed by, he ran away halfway through the season and made it a moot point departure/sacking/whatever you want to call it. He showed a lack of balls. He was happy to go.

I was not ever a big fan of Sherwood. He has been a ruthless power-broker behind the scenes since he returned, and his ambition is equally as ruthless. It's obvious that Levy looked to appoint someone else first but couldn't get the commitment, thus Sherwood got the gig. But what option did Levy have at the end of the day? I am not denying that he is a major part of the problems we currently have, but the fact remains that AVB forced his hand. So what should he have done there?

AVB is a part of this season's mess. As is Levy. As are the players. As is Sherwood. Of the four of them, it is Sherwood who carries the least responsibility IMO. You could argue that the players should be ashamed of themselves given that it's two managers they're farted around on...

I think AVB realised that Levy just didn't have a clue to be honest, and got out before he would be associated with a further mess. Clever guy.

 

[sc25]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

What could he have done differently? We saw a very good manager in Martinez get dingdonged at the emirates today. I didn't see anything wrong with the tactics we had stifled them and were holding our own only to be out done by individual errors for the fist goal, rank poor defending for second goal then a laughable capitulation for 2nd and 3rd goals. What could any manager have done there?

We may have 'stifled' them, but I reckon Chelsea were there for the taking today. They've had issues up front and scoring goals. But, we never really looked like scoring ourselves. Too much backward and sideways passing. Ade (yes, Ade) aside, we have no match-winners or game changers. We had no cutting edge (which I guess can happen when you play with one striker). Both before the game and during it, I figured Chelsea would win 1-0. One goal would be all they needed against us. But of course, our individual errors took care of that anyway.

BTW, when Chelsea signed Eto, he came cheap and they only signed him for a season. So, even though he had never played in it before, they must have figured he wouldn't take long to settle in or adjust to the PL. So, how come we spent 30 mil on a striker who was on the bench today and who some keep saying needs time to settle in and adjust?

 

[NWND]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I 100% agree with this post...so i am unsure why your having a pop at sherwood's interview.

You want a roy keane mentality...sherwood is of similar ilk...didnt he say he wanted the players to rip into each other??? if I was manager I would have wanted a massive barney after that capitulation...that was tims point in his interview....sort it out in the dressing room....show some passion...show it hurts.

Please remember that Tim has inherited this lot...gawd knows what a hypothetical team of his would look like in a few years...what your reffering to is winning mentality...I think sherwood can help with this.. I also think over his tenure he has done good and bad tactically.

We are in danger of returnung to the inferiority complex we have fought hard to shrug off...where we just take it from the big teams without any fight.

Im having a pop at Sherwood as he isnt a good manager. You pick your best team in a settled formation and keep playing it through the pain barrier. Rodgers started ofF at pool playing a way and hes stuck with it and played his stringest players whenever possible. Theyve got better and better.

They lost at the bridge too but they pushed chelsea all the way they narrowly lost and took the game to them.

Whats our first XI and even formation under sherwood or even avb before him? I dont even know.

Too clever for his own good thinks he can tinker around with it all the time dropping Eriksen our best player, playing Walker in midfield, lennon in the hole etc

Injuries havent helped but a consistent formation would at least be a start. He came for a point today with a negative formation.
It sends a msg that we are two bob and cant go toe to toe with them, which we cant anyway but at least give them somethinng to think about ffs!

 

[veron23]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Im having a pop at Sherwood as he isnt a good manager. You pick your best team in a settled formation and keep playing it through the pain barrier. Rodgers started ofF at pool playing a way and hes stuck with it and played his stringest players whenever possible. Theyve got better and better.

They lost at the bridge too but they pushed chelsea all the way they narrowly lost and took the game to them.

Whats our first XI and even formation under sherwood or even avb before him? I dont even know.

Too clever for his own good thinks he can tinker around with it all the time dropping Eriksen our best player, playing Walker in midfield, lennon in the hole etc

Injuries havent helped but a consistent formation would at least be a start. He came for a point today with a negative formation.
It sends a msg that we are two bob and cant go toe to toe with them, which we cant anyway but at least give them somethinng to think about ffs!

if he played the same team every game youd probably complain that hed make us predictable and easy to figure out. Mourinho is known to study and exploit weaknesses and prepare teams against the smallest detail so for TS to throw a curvball is not bad management at all.

we didnt lose today because of tactics