Tim Sherwood…gone \o/

[milo]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I think that this thread would benefit from everyone taking a time out. The discussion is getting a little cyclical.

 

[Nigeyman]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

What in the name of greek buggary is going on here?

 

[Pirate55]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

110% This, but the thing is that AVB is gone now, for better or for worse, so let's consign him to history and concentrate on supporting our current coach as we enter a crucial stage of the season.

=D>

 

[DTA]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Can i just be clear that it is good to be optimistic in all matters re footy. But there can be space for bias one way or another as long as it's consistent. I myself don't hold much hope for us under TS but will be happy to be proved wrong and have enjoyed the results so far (mostly), though i fear for us in the 'bigger' games. I was on the whole pro-AVB and didn't want him to go, though I understood it (though not the sacking to be replaced by TS with his lack of experience, still think that was wrong, but anyway).

However, I think it unfair that people can throw BS at AVB's time here and expect to get away with it. Pirate55 is often a big culprit.

I find it interesting that of all the points i've raised to Pirate and his points re AVB or TS, it's the Cloughie comment that he continually makes his replies on. I think that one has been done to death, so i'm going to re-address the other points which he threw about that caused me to even mention AVB in this thread. Ones which he has mostly avoided answering so far.

The irony that he wants others to 'stop making references to AVB' yet he takes a Kaboul interview where he bigs up TS as somehow a direct swipe at AVB.
Then he says AVB had 'too many payer management issues'. I have detailed that if AVB did have such issues he only had as many as other similar managers at big club with relatively big squads, like say Redknapp.

Then he says 'arent the players putting in great effort for TS, which they wetren't for AVB'. Citing the Emirates Marketing Project and Liverpool 6-0 and 5-0 defeats as examples and totally ignoring the way we played in TS's 5-1 defeat to City when in the first half we could have been 5 goals down in 30 mins. Also totally ignoring the results the players got between AVB's Emirates Marketing Project and Liverpool defeats.


So Pirate I have a few questions for you directly:
1) Do you still think AVB had too many player man-management issues? If so, did he have more than, say Redknapp (who it was claimed had issues with Pienaar, Krancjar, Corluka, Bentley, Bassong, Bent, Pav, Defoe, Gomes, VDV)?

2) Do you think the players put more effort into our game vs Emirates Marketing Project at home (a game we got trounced after getting a player sent off) than in our game vs Liverpool at home (a game we got trounced after getting a player sent off)?

3) Whilst, you're talking about effort you feel the players are putting into the games for TS (which you feel they weren't fpr AVB); do you feel this 'extra effort' is what has led the team to mostly (not all, but mostly) start games slowly in sleepwalker mode and constantly be below par in the first half?

4) Do you think the players weren't playing for AVB when they got Spurs' highest point haul in missing out on 4th by a point?

If I could take the liberty of answering these

1) yes, he didnt just have issues with players he had massive falling outs with talented and in some cases essential players Ade - BAE - Anelka - Alex. All in less time then harry was at spurs for.
2) yes I do, Liverpool was a complete embarrassment, total capitulation... Completely horrific. Not a shot on target.... Not one... Both city games were.... For want of a better word 'better'
3) not sure why we come out slow.
4)I think uber Bale was putting in a monumental shift and he seemed close to avb (not close enough to stay for another year though) there were others as well but at no point did I think that AVB had made us more then our total parts.

 

[Cochise]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I don't care what anyone says, some of our players would've had reservations about AVB when he came in after everything that happened at Chelsea. The media would've spun some nice stories and whilst you expect the players to ignore their BS, it still would've been in the back of their heads.

 

[Pirate55]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Can i just be clear that it is good to be optimistic in all matters re footy. But there can be space for bias one way or another as long as it's consistent. I myself don't hold much hope for us under TS but will be happy to be proved wrong and have enjoyed the results so far (mostly), though i fear for us in the 'bigger' games. I was on the whole pro-AVB and didn't want him to go, though I understood it (though not the sacking to be replaced by TS with his lack of experience, still think that was wrong, but anyway).

However, I think it unfair that people can throw BS at AVB's time here and expect to get away with it. Pirate55 is often a big culprit.

I find it interesting that of all the points i've raised to Pirate and his points re AVB or TS, it's the Cloughie comment that he continually makes his replies on. I think that one has been done to death, so i'm going to re-address the other points which he threw about that caused me to even mention AVB in this thread. Ones which he has mostly avoided answering so far.

The irony that he wants others to 'stop making references to AVB' yet he takes a Kaboul interview where he bigs up TS as somehow a direct swipe at AVB.
Then he says AVB had 'too many payer management issues'. I have detailed that if AVB did have such issues he only had as many as other similar managers at big club with relatively big squads, like say Redknapp.

Then he says 'arent the players putting in great effort for TS, which they wetren't for AVB'. Citing the Emirates Marketing Project and Liverpool 6-0 and 5-0 defeats as examples and totally ignoring the way we played in TS's 5-1 defeat to City when in the first half we could have been 5 goals down in 30 mins. Also totally ignoring the results the players got between AVB's Emirates Marketing Project and Liverpool defeats.


So Pirate I have a few questions for you directly:
1) Do you still think AVB had too many player man-management issues? If so, did he have more than, say Redknapp (who it was claimed had issues with Pienaar, Krancjar, Corluka, Bentley, Bassong, Bent, Pav, Defoe, Gomes, VDV)?

2) Do you think the players put more effort into our game vs Emirates Marketing Project at home (a game we got trounced after getting a player sent off) than in our game vs Liverpool at home (a game we got trounced after getting a player sent off)?

3) Whilst, you're talking about effort you feel the players are putting into the games for TS (which you feel they weren't fpr AVB); do you feel this 'extra effort' is what has led the team to mostly (not all, but mostly) start games slowly in sleepwalker mode and constantly be below par in the first half?

4) Do you think the players weren't playing for AVB when they got Spurs' highest point haul in missing out on 4th by a point?

I have moved on Mate. I suggest you do too. This is the TS thread.

COYS. TS's Blue and White army.

 

[indospurs]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Tim seems great at motivation, tactics v the smaller teams work well. We can in front, and run over them. Or hold out the 1st half, and 2nd half take over.

Against the big boys ? He hasn't done it yet. I think AvB, like Ramos, know how to knock the big boys but not so much the smaller clubs.

Very happy where we are, attacking with verve, but bigger clubs know how to tie your attacking threats up and cause you problems in your own half and take chances. This I can't see Tim solving the puzzle yet.

 

[Nigeyman]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Tim seems great at motivation, tactics v the smaller teams work well. We can in front, and run over them. Or hold out the 1st half, and 2nd half take over.

Against the big boys ? He hasn't done it yet. I think AvB, like Ramos, know how to knock the big boys but not so much the smaller clubs.

Very happy where we are, attacking with verve, but bigger clubs know how to tie your attacking threats up and cause you problems in your own half and take chances. This I can't see Tim solving the puzzle yet.

hmmmm

if these are timmy's baby steps in management I think he has done well. his team set-up to the goons in the cup and city home can be called into question.

The other issue we have to factor in is players, their form and summer signings that have not come good yet!

I mean Lamela & Soldado is my point here they were meant to be huge for us.......who knows if timmy will be at the helm for our first game of next season...at the present I hope he gets the gig but there are still massive games to come and chances for things to go north and south. I would love to know his thoughts though.....mainly on players.....will he know try Kaboul & verts for a bit? does he think Lamela & Solly are write-offs?

I think in the main our squad is excellent...i think we are a little bloated in the midfield and one of Livermore (when back) Siggy should probably move on....lennon doesnt do enough from wide positions goals or assists and Dawson makes to many errors....can we improve our fullbacks delivery??? cause that would be huge for us.

course I shouldnt confuse what I think tim thinks with what I do....and obviously he isnt going to spell out his plans...but I have seen very encouraging signs from his tenure thus far...my own thoughts is that we need to iron out a few things in our squad and then concentrate on developing our younger players.....this could have us being very competetive next season imo....providing the likes of Lloris/Verts/Sandro dont get poached away in the summer if we fail to get ucl.

 

[indospurs]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I think players are one part of the equation, here he's done really, really well. But tactics at the top end, the high level ... I do think he does learn very well though, I have faith he'll surprise me and cause a shock or two. I can see all the Sky and BBC reporters sit up and take note if we manage to knock one or two of the big boys on their fat cat arses.

 

[thfcsteff]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I think that this thread would benefit from everyone taking a time out. The discussion is getting a little cyclical.

Agreed.

People are rooted in their initial feelings and nothing's being exchanged other than self-resolve in protecting (and expressing) set opinions. It's turning into a very bizarre thread indeed...

 

[Rock Strongo]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I'm just glad I read the last 100 posts sitting on the porcelain. Crap in, crap out. I actually shat this thread.

 

[Armchair Expert]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

That Tim Sherwood bloke... he's doing alright isn't he!

 

[metalgear]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

i'm just glad he plugged that hole with capoue and even more courage to replace the people's favourite eriksen.

sure took him some time to remove those rose tinted glasses which was bentaleb who was really good for a young player , but not that good yet to excel in attack in defence.


keep making those logical choices, timmeh, and you will be alright.

 

[Roland Beurre]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Any chance this thread will be published as a book?

Every time I log on there are about three new pages of the stuff to wade through, and I don't have the time

A lot of people have doubts over "Tim of Sherwood's" ability to devise a tactical plan to beat the big teams. Of course, it is a fact of life that beating the good teams is going to be harder than beating the average ones; my car accelerates more quickly going up a one in six hill than it does a one in five ...

It seems (from what I have read) that he focuses more on getting our players to play at their optimum levels, while AVB concentrated on nullifying the opposition's strengths. If that is the case, then I would expect Tim of Sherwood's record against the best teams to pale in comparison with AVB's, because, as they say in boxing, a good big 'un will always beat a good little 'un.

On the other hand, I actually think other teams will find it a lot harder to set up against Tim's teams (the Tim of Sherwood nickname is never going to catch on, is it?). I think AVB's preferred style of play was more predictable, and probably easier for the smaller teams to play against. If AVB is going for a win by a single goal and the opposition is going for a draw then both sides are almost playing for the same outcome, if you see what I mean.

 

[squidseye]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I think Levy faces a huge decision if TS continues to do well this season and finishes the season in 1st-4th with similar results to those he has got so far.

On the one hand, he has plenty to prove with regards to building a system and a team and we can't take the small sample size of half a season for granted. But he has already shown great tactical flexibility, ability to learn and ability to get results. He will be ascendant, his potential will be huge from this perspective and we won't yet have seen a downside (which could pop up in preseason for all we know). The temptation will be to take the gamble and tie him down to a long contract. He would deserve it, but the needs of the club are always more important than what an employee deserves from our perspective.

On the other hand, we may have the chance to secure the services of one of the great system and culture building coaches of the last twenty years in LVG for 3-4 years. There is every chance that he could do his magic here, which would really take us through the difficult stadium changing years and set us up for a very bright future. In many ways, this is a safer option.

Whichever decision he makes, critics will say Levy got it wrong if we're not right up there next season, particularly if he opts for another change and TS does well elsewhere. I just hope Levy has a very difficult decision to make at the end of this season.

 

[SpurMeUp]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

For those who are less enamored with Tim Sherwood -the Timmeh phalanx - what would it take for Sherwood to turn you around? Or is the dislike irrational and just a personal thing?

The Timmeh term is a form of insult. Normally people give others a little more respect and a fair chance.

 

[billyiddo]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

How many posters do you estimate are in this 'phalanx' ?

 

[SpurMeUp]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

How many posters do you estimate are in this 'phalanx' ?

There are those who have some respect and don't use the Timmeh term but who are (or were) not so keen on TS. As a generalisation they are far more rational and prepared to give him his dues on merit. They are more open minded people, maybe didn't like TS, but have seen some decent results and he has started to prove himself.

Then there are a handful of ardent anti-TS Timmeh types. It likely stems from their adulation for AVB. A kind of Freudian love for him. Which means you can't get away from AVB in this thread. The reason they are so meh about TS is because they had a son like affection and loyalty to AVB.

Put that in your pipe :-"

 

[SpurMeUp]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I meant to also say that if it were not for those questioning Sherwood, rational or not, this forum would be a more boring place. So all credit to those that get people going

 

[Jurgen the German]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

How many posters do you estimate are in this 'phalanx' ?

Next you'll ask him to name them. Ok the term phalanx perhaps isn't too sensible to throw about, but he's right. Ok there are posters who are skeptical but are still respectful, but there's an element within this forum who are not. I would even go as far to say the term "Timmeh" is a bit of a WUM thing to say as it's bound to provoke a response. And he's also right about those same posters responses stems from a loyalty to AVB.

I myself am still skeptical about Sherwood, he's done a fine job so far but it still COULD go wrong, but why not see what he does before deciding?