Tim Sherwood…gone \o/

[glorygloryeze]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

You asked everyone to move away from making comparisons.

The very next statement you made was about Sherwood and AVB!

You requested that Sherwood be judged on his merits. To that, I say here here. Why haven't you picked up on those that haven't done just that.

This is the TS thread after all, and the sooner we put all references to AVB to bed, the happier I will be.

Why don't you make a start and stop this rubbish about AVB having 'man-management' issues? Which he did not have more than, say Harry.

 

[glorygloryeze]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

If you are going to quote me, please quote me in full. I said he could be our Cloughie or he could be a failure, only time would tell. You, Scara and GB branded him a failure before he had even started.

Ok I will quote you:

"Glad to hear there is no agenda. Lets all give him a chance. Who knows, he may prove to be our Cloughie - you heard it here first \o/"
From the Stoke thread: http://www.glory-glory.co.uk/showth...enham-vs-Stoke?p=488678&viewfull=1#post488678

So basically, after 3 league games in the job, you state "he may be our cloughie" then follow it up with "you heard it here first!"
Yep, that sound biased to me.

You could have said "he could be the next Ramos, you heard it here first", or "he could be the next Christian Gross, you heard it here first".
But no, you said AFTER 3 GAMES "he may be our cloughie you heard it here first"

Can I ask how did you come to think that? Was that purely based on blind faith? Or what you saw from only 4 games?

 

[Pirate55]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

i have it on good authority that the players were fully made up with the AVB appointment and genuinely liked the guy - you only have to look at his and Bales mutual affection which was on display several times last season to see that. It may possibly have turned a bit sour this season (can't see him being sacked if the players were in full support of him at the time) but i think you may be overlooking last season a fair bit Pirate and what seemed to be a very strong squad harmony. Sherwood has been here a fraction of a seasons length so far so there's no real comparison at this time.

Another AVB point you made in this thread. Spoonful time.

I agree it is far too early to judge Sherwood.

Lets just judge TS on his record as our head coach. Nothing more, nothing less. No comparisons to previous managers needed. And certainly not on who his friends are or are not.

 

[Pirate55]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Ok I will quote you:

"Glad to hear there is no agenda. Lets all give him a chance. Who knows, he may prove to be our Cloughie - you heard it here first \o/"
From the Stoke thread: http://www.glory-glory.co.uk/showth...enham-vs-Stoke?p=488678&viewfull=1#post488678

So basically, after 3 league games in the job, you state "he may be our cloughie" then follow it up with "you heard it here first!"
Yep, that sound biased to me.

You could have said "he could be the next Ramos, you heard it here first", or "he could be the next Christian Gross, you heard it here first".
But no, you said AFTER 3 GAMES "he may be our cloughie you heard it here first"

Can I ask how did you come to think that? Was that purely based on blind faith? Or what you saw from only 4 games?

Do you understand plain English? I plainly said, "Who knows, he COULD be ". I also said " let's give him a chance. " I did not say he IS our Cloughie or predict he WILL be our Cloughie. I said he COULD be our Cloughie. He could equally not be.

Unlike you and others, I did not rush to judgement. Indeed, I still have not formed a definitive view on Sherwood as it is far too early to judge him. What I dislike is you and others pre- judging him.

Geddit now?

 

[scaramanga]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Are you being deliberately cantankerous and argumentative for the sake of it? Don't even know how to start to respond to that quite ridiculous question.

Not at all (although cantankerous is probably the most accurate way of describing me most of the time).

I'm genuinely interested in how you see the same thing as everyone else but come to a very different conclusion.

For example, a team putting in a lot of effort would run a lot I assume? Tackle hard? Chase lost causes?

Because that sounds to me like every Allardyce team. And every Pulis team, and most championship teams for that matter too. Now I don't believe for a second that the reason they look like that is respect for the manager.

 

[glorygloryeze]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Do you understand plain English? I plainly said, "Who knows, he COULD be ". I also said " let's give him a chance. "

Unlike you and others, I did not rush to judgement. Indeed, I still have not formed a definitive view on Sherwood as it is far too early to judge him. What I dislike is you and others pre- judging him.

Geddit now?

Nah, not so easy for you to slink out of that fella. You closed your statement with "you heard it here first!" A statement of belief, despite all the 'who knows', 'give him a chance' and 'could be'. That closing statement nails your bias to the mast.
You did indeed rush to judgement ("you heard it here first")
And you know it.

 

[billyiddo]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

You asked everyone to move away from making comparisons.

The very next statement you made was about Sherwood and AVB!
im really really not sure how you have come to that conclusion tbh seeings as i didn't even mention Sherwood in the post you're talking about.

You requested that Sherwood be judged on his merits. To that, I say here here. Why haven't you picked up on those that haven't done just that.

This is the TS thread after all, and the sooner we put all references to AVB to bed, the happier I will be.

i thought that is what i was doing with above statement, judge Sherwood on what he does right or wrong not what AVB done right or wrong - a post bigging up Sherwood for X doesn't need to followed by a remark about the former manager - similarly criticizing Sherwood for something doesn't need to be answered by bringing up something about AVB.

people are free to post what they want as long as it remains within the rules, i don't particularly care if someone wants to discuss AVB v Sherwood - but i'll more than happily point it out when i think the comparisons/points being made are flawed, as they often are when measuring the two against each other

.

 

[billyiddo]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Another AVB point you made in this thread. Spoonful time.

I agree it is far too early to judge Sherwood.

Lets just judge TS on his record as our head coach. Nothing more, nothing less. No comparisons to previous managers needed. And certainly not on who his friends are or are not.

if you had carried on reading past the line you bolded then you would have seen the purpose of my post, which was quite clear as i rounded off :

i have it on good authority that the players were fully made up with the AVB appointment and genuinely liked the guy - you only have to look at his and Bales mutual affection which was on display several times last season to see that. It may possibly have turned a bit sour this season (can't see him being sacked if the players were in full support of him at the time) but i think you may be overlooking last season a fair bit Pirate and what seemed to be a very strong squad harmony. Sherwood has been here a fraction of a seasons length so far so there's no real comparison at this time.

so tying in quite nicely with what i said earlier on.

 

[Pirate55]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Nah, not so easy for you to slink out of that fella. You closed your statement with "you heard it here first!" A statement of belief, despite all the 'who knows', 'give him a chance' and 'could be'. That closing statement nails your bias to the mast.
You did indeed rush to judgement ("you heard it here first")
And you know it.

It may be in your world. It isn't in mine.

If you look at the whole quote in context, it was in a response to Brain of Levy, who was one of AVB's biggest supporters, but who had just made a very evenhanded and balanced post on Sherwood. He had been genuinely upset by AVB's sacking. In my post, I was praising his ability to put the matter of AVB to bed and move on. In that context, I tried to cheer him up and made a light hearted reference to the fact that Sherwood might prove to be our Cloughie and tried to further make it light hearted by saying " you heard it here first" with the swinging arms attempting to increase the jollity of my post.

Obviously lost on you.

 

[glorygloryeze]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

It may be in your world. It isn't in mine.

If you look at the whole quote in context, it was in a response to Brain of Levy, who was one of AVB's biggest supporters, but who had just made a very evenhanded and balanced post on Sherwood. He had been genuinely upset by AVB's sacking. In my post, I was praising his ability to put the matter of AVB to bed and move on. In that context, I tried to cheer him up and made a light hearted reference to the fact that Sherwood might prove to be our Cloughie and tried to further make it light hearted by saying " you heard it here first" with the swinging arms attempting to increase the jollity of my post.

Obviously lost on you.

Whatever you say Pirate. I think your bias towards TS is clear in most of your posts. The irony being your mantra of it being 'too soon to judge' whilst also taking pot-shots at how players are 'clearly playing for TS' and how they 'weren't playing for AVB' and 'AVB had lots of player man-management issues'.
Yes, it's clear after such a short time that players will always 'play for TS'. Of course, because you can see the future, whilst us lesser mortals have to 'give it time' and 'wait and see'

 

[billyiddo]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

i think tbf here glorygloryeze you have somewhat misread his Clough remark.

not that your other points are't valid

 

[Pirate55]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Not at all (although cantankerous is probably the most accurate way of describing me most of the time).

I'm genuinely interested in how you see the same thing as everyone else but come to a very different conclusion.

For example, a team putting in a lot of effort would run a lot I assume? Tackle hard? Chase lost causes?

Because that sounds to me like every Allardyce team. And every Pulis team, and most championship teams for that matter too. Now I don't believe for a second that the reason they look like that is respect for the manager.

I give you City away, Liverpool at home. Two games where there was minimal effort and the team folded. Did the players fight for the cause with every sinew in their being? There are other examples too.

If we can ally great work rate and effort and combine it with our players superior technical abilities, then we will be some force to be reckoned with. Liverpool work their socks off. Suarez tackles back like a demon. Would SAF's teams have folded like that? Bayern run their balls off. Chelscum too. Respect for the manager is an essential ingredient in any teams success.

There is nothing wrong with working hard. Or is that too working class for you? It has nothing to do with the type of football played.

 

[Pirate55]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Whatever you say Pirate. I think your bias towards TS is clear in most of your posts. The irony being your mantra of it being 'too soon to judge' whilst also taking pot-shots at how players are 'clearly playing for TS' and how they 'weren't playing for AVB' and 'AVB had lots of player man-management issues'.
Yes, it's clear after such a short time that players will always 'play for TS'. Of course, because you can see the future, whilst us lesser mortals have to 'give it time' and 'wait and see'

Let's try again. I AM NOT a TS FANBOY. I simply say lets give him a chance. He may work out, he may not. It is too early to judge him.

All this balderdash about seeing in to the future says more about your bias than it does about me.

 

[Yossarian]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Whatever you say Pirate. I think your bias towards TS is clear in most of your posts. The irony being your mantra of it being 'too soon to judge' whilst also taking pot-shots at how players are 'clearly playing for TS' and how they 'weren't playing for AVB' and 'AVB had lots of player man-management issues'.
Yes, it's clear after such a short time that players will always 'play for TS'. Of course, because you can see the future, whilst us lesser mortals have to 'give it time' and 'wait and see'

Bias? Bias? WALOB. We have a manager. His name is Tim Sherwood. AVB is history.

I was astonished when Sherwood was given the job. Scratch that; appalled. I am delighted that he is proving me wrong, week after week. As a Spurs fan, I support the team.

Unless you have a time machine, forget all about AVB with regards to this club. He won't be back. Get over it, not for me, but for you.

Spending your life thinking about what has happened or what might happen is not healthy.

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Ok I will quote you:

"Glad to hear there is no agenda. Lets all give him a chance. Who knows, he may prove to be our Cloughie - you heard it here first \o/"
From the Stoke thread: http://www.glory-glory.co.uk/showth...enham-vs-Stoke?p=488678&viewfull=1#post488678

So basically, after 3 league games in the job, you state "he may be our cloughie" then follow it up with "you heard it here first!"
Yep, that sound biased to me.

You could have said "he could be the next Ramos, you heard it here first", or "he could be the next Christian Gross, you heard it here first".
But no, you said AFTER 3 GAMES "he may be our cloughie you heard it here first"

Can I ask how did you come to think that? Was that purely based on blind faith? Or what you saw from only 4 games?

I do not think that shows bias, it is the optimism that we all have when a new guy comes into the job. I have had it with all our managers in 40 years supporting the club. Why should we not hope the new guy will not be the next cloughie? i was hoping avb would be the new Mourinho, but his last 2 months in charge he was looking like he lost the plot so he had to go.

Im sure all the ones who are considered pro Sherwood will say the same when he looks like he is not the next coming. I really do not get why some are so against him, i detect an inverted racism going on but do not really want to get into all that.

 

[DTA]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Not at all (although cantankerous is probably the most accurate way of describing me most of the time).

I'm genuinely interested in how you see the same thing as everyone else but come to a very different conclusion.

For example, a team putting in a lot of effort would run a lot I assume? Tackle hard? Chase lost causes?

Because that sounds to me like every Allardyce team. And every Pulis team, and most championship teams for that matter too. Now I don't believe for a second that the reason they look like that is respect for the manager.

To be fair Scara, that also sounds like a wenger, SAF and Jose team as well.

 

[glorygloryeze]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Can i just be clear that it is good to be optimistic in all matters re footy. But there can be space for bias one way or another as long as it's consistent. I myself don't hold much hope for us under TS but will be happy to be proved wrong and have enjoyed the results so far (mostly), though i fear for us in the 'bigger' games. I was on the whole pro-AVB and didn't want him to go, though I understood it (though not the sacking to be replaced by TS with his lack of experience, still think that was wrong, but anyway).

However, I think it unfair that people can throw BS at AVB's time here and expect to get away with it. Pirate55 is often a big culprit.

I find it interesting that of all the points i've raised to Pirate and his points re AVB or TS, it's the Cloughie comment that he continually makes his replies on. I think that one has been done to death, so i'm going to re-address the other points which he threw about that caused me to even mention AVB in this thread. Ones which he has mostly avoided answering so far.

The irony that he wants others to 'stop making references to AVB' yet he takes a Kaboul interview where he bigs up TS as somehow a direct swipe at AVB.
Then he says AVB had 'too many payer management issues'. I have detailed that if AVB did have such issues he only had as many as other similar managers at big club with relatively big squads, like say Redknapp.

Then he says 'arent the players putting in great effort for TS, which they wetren't for AVB'. Citing the Emirates Marketing Project and Liverpool 6-0 and 5-0 defeats as examples and totally ignoring the way we played in TS's 5-1 defeat to City when in the first half we could have been 5 goals down in 30 mins. Also totally ignoring the results the players got between AVB's Emirates Marketing Project and Liverpool defeats.


So Pirate I have a few questions for you directly:
1) Do you still think AVB had too many player man-management issues? If so, did he have more than, say Redknapp (who it was claimed had issues with Pienaar, Krancjar, Corluka, Bentley, Bassong, Bent, Pav, Defoe, Gomes, VDV)?

2) Do you think the players put more effort into our game vs Emirates Marketing Project at home (a game we got trounced after getting a player sent off) than in our game vs Liverpool at home (a game we got trounced after getting a player sent off)?

3) Whilst, you're talking about effort you feel the players are putting into the games for TS (which you feel they weren't fpr AVB); do you feel this 'extra effort' is what has led the team to mostly (not all, but mostly) start games slowly in sleepwalker mode and constantly be below par in the first half?

4) Do you think the players weren't playing for AVB when they got Spurs' highest point haul in missing out on 4th by a point?

 

[Rossi22]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

My name's Rossi22 and I'm ... a TS fanboy.

 

[JerusalemMan]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Are you being deliberately cantankerous and argumentative for the sake of it? Don't even know how to start to respond to that quite ridiculous question.

The answer to that question is repeatedly littered throughout this thread

 

[JerusalemMan]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Nah, not so easy for you to slink out of that fella. You closed your statement with "you heard it here first!" A statement of belief, despite all the 'who knows', 'give him a chance' and 'could be'. That closing statement nails your bias to the mast.
You did indeed rush to judgement ("you heard it here first")
And you know it.

Mercy me, fella! Even after posting the context you misunderstand him.
It's clearly a light-hearted remark rather than an academic prediction.