Tim Sherwood…gone \o/

[indianspur]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

The main thing AVB would have done differently was switched us to coast at 2-0 with the next game in mind, rather than go for dead rubber goals.

what, and you think that is correct??? dead rubber goals??? thats uber crazy controlling micromanagement !!!do you know what it does to the confidence of players to win 4 or 5 nill rather than 1 or 2 nill?? Plus the positive effect on the GD column, something that might prove important in a season like this where there is 7pts separating the top 5 and we are only 3 pts behind the 4th place team...........i am so glad we no longer have manager who would rather go 1 or 2 nill up and then shut up shop

 

[indianspur]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

He could be, but more likely a swipe at AVB who didn't play at a high level

did he play at any level??? thats the thing....even Mourinho was a player, Wenger was, Ferguson was, other managers mentioned were players, all maybe at low levels, but they have been in dressing rooms, they knew what it felt to be part of a team, the importance of man management.......

 

[glorygloryeze]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

did he play at any level??? thats the thing....even Mourinho was a player, Wenger was, Ferguson was, other managers mentioned were players, all maybe at low levels, but they have been in dressing rooms, they knew what it felt to be part of a team, the importance of man management.......

Yes of course, because playing at any level means that man-management skills will be good, like in the case of Glenn Hoddle

 

[africanspurs]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Yes of course, because playing at any level means that man-management skills will be good, like in the case of Glenn Hoddle

thats a good point

 

[Pirate55]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Yes, because that is sooooo relevant. I think you're looking for things that aren't there tbh

Possibly, but players tend to respect coaches who have either achieved success as a player or coach before. As I have said many times, AVB never proved himself as a coach by never staying anywhere for more than one season.

 

[glorygloryeze]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Possibly, but players tend to respect coaches who have either achieved success as a player or coach before. As I have said many times, AVB never proved himself as a coach by never staying anywhere for more than one season.

How far do we want to take this? Should Harry have been given any respect (one trophy in his whole life)?
What about Sherwood now? (Ok a trophy as a player - no doubt everybody in France/Belgium remembers Blackburn in 1995, but as a coach what has he done to gain respect automatically before being appointed?)
What about Jol?

Players have to respect the coach until that coach gives them SIGNIFICANT reason to do otherwise. If anybody disrespects the coach in front of the whole squad I would think that coach almost has a duty to himself and the structure of the club to put his foot down anyway he sees fit.

AVB had that right as did Redknapp, Ramos and Sherwood now.

This idea that seems to be trotted out now that AVB whilst coach by default didn't deserve as much respect because 'he didn't play to a high level' is pure BS and I challenge anyone to prove otherwise

 

[Pirate55]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Yes of course, because playing at any level means that man-management skills will be good, like in the case of Glenn Hoddle

Being a player doesn't necessarily mean you DON'T have man management skills.

 

[Pirate55]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

How far do we want to take this? Should Harry have been given any respect (one trophy in his whole life)?
What about Sherwood now? (Ok a trophy as a player - no doubt everybody in France/Belgium remembers Blackburn in 1995, but as a coach what has he done to gain respect automatically before being appointed?)
What about Jol?

Players have to respect the coach until that coach gives them SIGNIFICANT reason to do otherwise. If anybody disrespects the coach in front of the whole squad I would think that coach almost has a duty to himself and the structure of the club to put his foot down anyway he sees fit.

AVB had that right as did Redknapp, Ramos and Sherwood now.

This idea that seems to be trotted out now that AVB whilst coach by default didn't deserve as much respect because 'he didn't play to a high level' is pure BS and I challenge anyone to prove otherwise

Did the players respect AVB? Who knows for sure? I suspect some of them didn't. To me they often looked confused by him.

Where can you prove that AVB had consistent success with one team over a few seasons? Either as a player or head coach ?

 

[billyiddo]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Id be very surprised if his lack of playing career had anything to do with a supposed lack of respect from the players.

 

[scaramanga]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Did the players respect AVB? Who knows for sure? I suspect some of them didn't. To me they often looked confused by him.

How does confusion manifest itself from an external point of view?

Where can you prove that AVB had consistent success with one team over a few seasons? Either as a player or head coach ?

Can you prove that's at all relevant?

 

[Millsy_Yiddo]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Pretty much everyone claims that new players take 6 months to adapt to a new country/league/team - I'd say that's a fair amount of time. So I wouldn't expect them to do so in less than that.


So you think the reason we are creating better chances now and scoring more goals has nothing to do with the more attacking style of play TS has implemented, but is simply down to new players settling into a new league and Ade being re-instated?

Second point - I wouldn't at all. In fact we qualified once and haven't since. Regular qualification has to be the absolute minimum (and even that will leave us a long way from a title challenge) and allowing players like Ade to be more powerful than the manager is not the route to long-term success (unless you have the money to buy your way past that).

So regular qualification is an absolute minimum but you're happy to accept not qualifying in order to ensure long term success which you have defined as regular qualification? Are you expecting that under AVB we would have gone from regular non-qualifiers to regular qualifiers in a single season?

 

[Pirate55]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

How does confusion manifest itself from an external point of view?



Can you prove that's at all relevant?

You have been mercilessly critical of TS for his lack of experience. AVB, has never proved his his credentials with any team over more than a single season and had a dismal failure at Chelsea. I think that is very relevant.

To gain the respect of players ( not the most sophisticated or intelligent human beings) it certainly helps to have some proven credentials behind you. Either from your playing career or managerial career. We won't even know if AVB has these until he has proved it with the same club over a few seasons.

 

[glorygloryeze]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Did the players respect AVB? Who knows for sure? I suspect some of them didn't. To me they often looked confused by him.

Where can you prove that AVB had consistent success with one team over a few seasons? Either as a player or head coach ?

Can you, I or anybody, ask the same questions of Sherwood?
Is that question even relevant?

 

[scaramanga]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

So you think the reason we are creating better chances now and scoring more goals has nothing to do with the more attacking style of play TS has implemented, but is simply down to new players settling into a new league and Ade being re-instated?

Pretty much, yes.

So regular qualification is an absolute minimum but you're happy to accept not qualifying in order to ensure long term success which you have defined as regular qualification? Are you expecting that under AVB we would have gone from regular non-qualifiers to regular qualifiers in a single season?

Regular qualification has to be the minimum target - one-off qualification doesn't make that any more likely to happen. In fact, our recent history would suggest that one-off qualification makes it less likely.

If he'd had time to fully implement the system he wanted to then I think we'd have had a very good chance, yes. It's impossible to say something would or wouldn't have happened, but IMO the right steps were being taken to get there.

I'll state again though, as you must have missed it before - simply motivating our players will only get us into the CL if two or more of the richer clubs **** up. We need a long-term system in order to get past them permanently. IMO AVB was implementing a system that will do that, hopefully soon we'll employ a manager who can do that.

 

[scaramanga]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

You have been mercilessly critical of TS for his lack of experience. AVB, has never proved his his credentials with any team over more than a single season and had a dismal failure at Chelsea. I think that is very relevant.

AVB has managed before. AVB has won trophies as a manager.

Timmeh kicked a bit of pig skin over a decade ago.

To gain the respect of players ( not the most sophisticated or intelligent human beings) it certainly helps to have some proven credentials behind you. Either from your playing career or managerial career. We won't even know if AVB has these until he has proved it with the same club over a few seasons.

You're making definitive statements again about people you don't know forming opinions on people you've never met. Can you see why it's so important that you back that up with something a bit more sound?

 

[Pirate55]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Can you, I or anybody, ask the same questions of Sherwood?
Is that question even relevant?

I would say the question of respect for a coach is extremely relevant. TS seems to have it from the players, who look like they are enjoying their football under him, I am not sure AVB did have the respect of the players. To me at least, the players really didn't look like they enjoyed the football under AVB.

 

[Pirate55]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

AVB has managed before. AVB has won trophies as a manager.

Timmeh kicked a bit of pig skin over a decade ago.



You're making definitive statements again about people you don't know forming opinions on people you've never met. Can you see why it's so important that you back that up with something a bit more sound?

Ditto for you and TS.

I have backed it up. AVB has never proved himself with the same team over more than a single season. What proof do you have to the contrary?

 

[scaramanga]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I would say the question of respect for a coach is extremely relevant. TS seems to have it from the players, who look like they are enjoying their football under him, I am not sure AVB did have the respect of the players. To me at least, the players really didn't look like they enjoyed the football under AVB.

How do players who like/respect their manager look? How do players who are enjoying their football look? Does that vary with positions? I can imagine Lloris enjoys his football most when we're under heavy pressure and he's making last-ditch saves - how happy does Ade look while that's happening?

How does any of that differ from the look of a player that's settling in to a new country/team/league? Once they've settled would they look different?

How qualified do you feel to make that distinction and why?

 

[scaramanga]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Ditto for you and TS.

I have backed it up. AVB has never proved himself with the same team over more than a single season. What proof do you have to the contrary?

You haven't backed it up at all. Just for clarification, here's the statement I asked you to back up:

To gain the respect of players ( not the most sophisticated or intelligent human beings) it certainly helps to have some proven credentials behind you. Either from your playing career or managerial career. We won't even know if AVB has these until he has proved it with the same club over a few seasons.

Telling me that AVB hasn't proven himself with the same team over more than a single season couldn't be less relevant. I may as well have asked you for a mathematical proof and you responded with "Yellow".

 

[billyiddo]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

i have it on good authority that the players were fully made up with the AVB appointment and genuinely liked the guy - you only have to look at his and Bales mutual affection which was on display several times last season to see that. It may possibly have turned a bit sour this season (can't see him being sacked if the players were in full support of him at the time) but i think you may be overlooking last season a fair bit Pirate and what seemed to be a very strong squad harmony. Sherwood has been here a fraction of a seasons length so far so there's no real comparison at this time.