The Official Knee Jerk thread

[Rossi22]

Same here. I think some fans just lapped up what the commentator was saying during the 1st half, he was basically blaming Sandro for Modric and Bale being out of position and that we should bring on Livermore.

 

[COYS]

This often happens in football, though usually it's in title races. One team will have a short little bad run just after the teams below think they have no chance of catching up, and then the teams below believe they can do it. Though, of course, the team above USUALLY comes out champions. This can be found in last year's title race for the PL. This isn't disastrous just yet, though something has to change

 

[braineclipse]

I'm glad it wasnt just me them. I thought he ran his socks off for the cause

Decent game and great effort, although partially to blame for their goal. Him and Parker didn't work, don't see why it will work.

Sandro needs to play as an out and out defensive midfielder and needs a creative player next to him.

 

[Jurgen the German]

Look I'm not a "panic merchant" just a realist. Comments such as we will get third are based on two misguided factors. The first is our past form. Yes we were playing the best football in the league, but that was LAST YEAR! Look at out results since then. Apart from our performance against an undermanned Saudi Sportswashing Machine, we have been playing crap football for some time. The problem was, that we were still getting results, now we are not. The optimists are basing their positivity on how things were, not on how things are. The second reason is completely irrational. It is simple blind faith. Sorry blind faith has never held any gfreat attractions for me.

Completely agree. Especially the highlighted part.

 

[diego_maradona]

Decent game and great effort, although partially to blame for their goal. Him and Parker didn't work, don't see why it will work.

Sandro needs to play as an out and out defensive midfielder and needs a creative player next to him.

No way. That was Kaboul all day and Sandro done incredibly well just to get near the man in the end, almost atoning for Kaboul's error. I can see why Ledley left his man as at one point it looks as though Osman will clean through to shoot at Brad.

 

[Jurgen the German]

No way. That was Kaboul all day and Sandro done incredibly well just to get near the man in the end, almost atoning for Kaboul's error. I can see why Ledley left his man as at one point it looks as though Osman will clean through to shoot at Brad.

Agree. Kaboul got skinned far too easily.

 

[braineclipse]

No way. That was Kaboul all day and Sandro done incredibly well just to get near the man in the end, almost atoning for Kaboul's error. I can see why Ledley left his man as at one point it looks as though Osman will clean through to shoot at Brad.

Kaboul needs to shoulder most of the blame for sure.

But Sandro left the area he should cover to press a man Parker was already pressing, that left our centre backs exposed and made the fairly simple pass up to Osman possible. It was a mistake and if he hadn't made that mistake they wouldn't have scored that goal. There were several other times as well where Parker and Sandro didn't figure out their positioning together.

 

[Gilzeantoscore]

Sandro might have tried hard, but he is too slow for the premier league. he struggles to get to the contest.


Gary.

 

[ArcspacE]

Where's the Let's Laugh at Arsenal thread?

Uncle Mike took it over to Arse Mania nad renamed it


And as to our current shambles - Arry has a lot to answer for

 

[diego_maradona]

Kaboul needs to shoulder most of the blame for sure.

But Sandro left the area he should cover to press a man Parker was already pressing, that left our centre backs exposed and made the fairly simple pass up to Osman possible. It was a mistake and if he hadn't made that mistake they wouldn't have scored that goal. There were several other times as well where Parker and Sandro didn't figure out their positioning together.

Sorry but I think your clutching at straws by blaming Sandro here.

Windy covers it well:
http://windycoys.blogspot.com/

Parker could easily be the man who you could say should have been picking up Osman. We had it covered in all honesty. Younes should have had him but was easily suckered in by Osman. It was an excellent pass by Baines to take out our 2 DM's. But there was a space that was exploited a few times between the defence and midfield.

Sandro for me does incredibly well to get back in a position where he almost is able to cut out the pass.

and also Sandro too slow for the Premier League? It's no wonder we churn out the same cr*p in the national side every year when this is the attitude of our fans. Riquelme is a liability, Zidane too wooden. Sandro's reading of the game is exceptional in my view. He will only improve as this is an aspect which improves with more experience.

 

[Enter the Pitbull]

I would agree, my first instinct was that Sandro did really well to be even alive to that danger by coming back, he almost did it successfully too. Most journeymen midfield trackers tend to leave those kinds of runs well alone. Sandro had the instinct and the alertness to track the run, shame he didn't quite make it.

One consequence of playing Parker and Sandro together was I noticed Parker tried a lot of forward passes in advanced positions, by his standards - some more successful than others, of course.

 

[braineclipse]

Sorry but I think your clutching at straws by blaming Sandro here.

Windy covers it well:
http://windycoys.blogspot.com/

Parker could easily be the man who you could say should have been picking up Osman. We had it covered in all honesty. Younes should have had him but was easily suckered in by Osman. It was an excellent pass by Baines to take out our 2 DM's. But there was a space that was exploited a few times between the defence and midfield.

Sandro for me does incredibly well to get back in a position where he almost is able to cut out the pass.

and also Sandro too slow for the Premier League? It's no wonder we churn out the same cr*p in the national side every year when this is the attitude of our fans. Riquelme is a liability, Zidane too wooden. Sandro's reading of the game is exceptional in my view. He will only improve as this is an aspect which improves with more experience.

Windy unfortunately starts his analysis a little bit too late. Look at the first picture, look at the amount of space Osman has between our midfielders and defenders, that's without any real pressure on the man on the ball (Baines). Leaving those kinds of gaps, when it wasn't a counter attack and we were organized isn't good defending. It's actually pretty terrible. Again, look at that first picture, Parker and Sandro are almost right next to each other, with the gap behind them. And no that wasn't Parker's fault. You can't quite see it from the video linked from that windycoys site, but Sandro had just pushed up into that area already covered by Parker who was furthest to the right and furthest forward of the two of them and should be there.

He desperately tries to track back, probably realizing that he shouldn't have pushed up and does well to almost get back in time. But, leaving that space, pushing up when he shouldn't have was a mistake and he deserves his part of the blame.

You can see it more clearly in this video after 02:30

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xpdgp1_everton-v-tottenham-hotspur_sport?start=151#from=embediframe

Parker and Bale are there, covering the right hand side (Fellaini and someone), Sandro joins them leaving a massive gap for Osman to run into and Baines picks him out quite easily.

To be clear, I rate Sandro very highly, the comment about him being too slow is just flat out wrong and I think he will be a great player for us.

 

[diego_maradona]

Windy unfortunately starts his analysis a little bit too late. Look at the first picture, look at the amount of space Osman has between our midfielders and defenders, that's without any real pressure on the man on the ball (Baines). Leaving those kinds of gaps, when it wasn't a counter attack and we were organized isn't good defending. It's actually pretty terrible. Again, look at that first picture, Parker and Sandro are almost right next to each other, with the gap behind them. And no that wasn't Parker's fault. You can't quite see it from the video linked from that windycoys site, but Sandro had just pushed up into that area already covered by Parker who was furthest to the right and furthest forward of the two of them and should be there.

He desperately tries to track back, probably realizing that he shouldn't have pushed up and does well to almost get back in time. But, leaving that space, pushing up when he shouldn't have was a mistake and he deserves his part of the blame.

You can see it more clearly in this video after 02:30

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xpdgp1_everton-v-tottenham-hotspur_sport?start=151#from=embediframe

Parker and Bale are there, covering the right hand side (Fellaini and someone), Sandro joins them leaving a massive gap for Osman to run into and Baines picks him out quite easily.

To be clear, I rate Sandro very highly, the comment about him being too slow is just flat out wrong and I think he will be a great player for us.

Sorry I didn't mean that to appear as though it was you who said he was slow. I'll check out the dailymotion link at lunch. I can see where you are coming from though.

I think we need to address why there is lines between the defence and dm's especially when we deploy 2 of them in a game.

 

[Gilzeantoscore]

Sorry but I think your clutching at straws by blaming Sandro here.

Windy covers it well:
http://windycoys.blogspot.com/

Parker could easily be the man who you could say should have been picking up Osman. We had it covered in all honesty. Younes should have had him but was easily suckered in by Osman. It was an excellent pass by Baines to take out our 2 DM's. But there was a space that was exploited a few times between the defence and midfield.

Sandro for me does incredibly well to get back in a position where he almost is able to cut out the pass.

and also Sandro too slow for the Premier League? It's no wonder we churn out the same cr*p in the national side every year when this is the attitude of our fans. Riquelme is a liability, Zidane too wooden. Sandro's reading of the game is exceptional in my view. He will only improve as this is an aspect which improves with more experience.

The EPL is a difficult one because it requires technical abilty and athleticism, unlike other leagues. Dont try to misrepresent my comment, where did I say that technical abilty is not a positive in a player. Some of you guys need to re watch the last few games where Sandro has played. I'm 50 and would get around the pitch faster. He has been well off the pace.


Gary.

 

[braineclipse]

The EPL is a difficult one because it requires technical abilty and athleticism, unlike other leagues. Dont try to misrepresent my comment, where did I say that technical abilty is not a positive in a player. Some of you guys need to re watch the last few games where Sandro has played. I'm 50 and would get around the pitch faster. He has been well off the pace.


Gary.

Like I asked someone in another thread. How does United get away with playing Carrick and Scholes then?

While the PL is a quick, athletic league I think a team like Barca is in better physical shape than almost any PL team. Yet you wouldn't really say that Xavi and Busquets are particularly quick.

 

[Gilzeantoscore]

Like I asked someone in another thread. How does United get away with playing Carrick and Scholes then?

While the PL is a quick, athletic league I think a team like Barca is in better physical shape than almost any PL team. Yet you wouldn't really say that Xavi and Busquets are particularly quick.

They get away with it because Carrick (great technical abilty) and Scholes (great engine) compliment each other better than Parker and Sandro do. BTW, I fail to see Sandro as a 'technical' player. I think he is pretty limited actually. Yeah Barca are fit, but obviously, La Liga does not require the pace that the EPL does, the tempo of English football is much quicker. In fact one of the things that makes the EPL the best in the world in my opinion, is that the pace of the game, now has great technical skill as well. This was not the case in the 70's and 80's. The quick, close passing along the touch line by our players is breath taking at times and you rarely saw that sort of play back in the day. It would have just been punted downfield.


Gary.

 

[braineclipse]

They get away with it because Carrick (great technical abilty) and Scholes (great engine) compliment each other better than Parker and Sandro do. BTW, I fail to see Sandro as a 'technical' player. I think he is pretty limited actually. Yeah Barca are fit, but obviously, La Liga does not require the pace that the EPL does, the tempo of English football is much quicker. In fact one of the things that makes the EPL the best in the world in my opinion, is that the pace of the game, now has great technical skill as well. This was not the case in the 70's and 80's. The quick, close passing along the touch line by our players is breath taking at times and you rarely saw that sort of play back in the day. It would have just been punted downfield.


Gary.

I agree that Sandro isn't a "technical player".

Were you talking about Sandro's lack of pace as a problem when we attack? I thought you were talking about defensively. I honestly don't understand your point. If you're saying that it's a problem when we attack, why? He's not supposed to go on massive attacking runs or skip past players. If you were talking about defending, what relevance does the technical ability of Carrick and Scholes has to how well United defend?

The tempo of mid and lower table PL sides is probably quite a bit quicker than mid and lower table La Liga sides, but the tempo of Real and Barca is pretty much breathtaking, like Barca showed in CL final last season where they wiped the floor with United. Yet players like Xavi, Busquets or Khedira aren't particularly quick.

 

[Bale]

Sandro is a quality CDM.

Perfect replacement for Parker.

 

[Pirate55]

Is there a Spurs Curse?

Too many things seemingly happen just to us

Players can no longer do what the did:

eg. Adebayor cant head the ball or hold it up - look at the two headers he scored against us for Real Madrid
Palacias could no longer tackle or pass - his first game against Arse was fantastic, after that I havent seen such a rapid decline
Bentley can no longer cross a ball - at Blackburn he was hailed as the next David Beckham
Parker cant tackle for toffee or pass forward (let alone score)at the moment - yet earlier in the season and for west ham he was theall round MVP
Dos Santos cant dribble or cross a ball - yet in the World cup and for Mexico he was sublime
VDV and Bale cant take dead ball to save their lives- they were once specialists in this field
Robinson went from King to Clown
Malbranque became the nearly man - everything he did nearly came off but not quite
Prince Boatang couldnt pass, tackle or head the ball - - but look at him now
Mido went from the "best header of the ball in Europe" according to Jol to a tub of lard
Postiga couldnt hit the net for anything in spurs colours, yet before and after us he couldnt stop scoring.

Managers who forgot how to manage

Santini, Ramos, Graham ....? Rednapp

Incidents[/B]

Ball over the line (Man Utd away) ball not over the line (Chelsea away)
Lasagnagate


And penalties that should have been given and not or penalties that werent that should have been. (Although I appreciate here that all clubs can point to these sort of incidents so I havent detailed all the decisions that went against us.


Any ideas why this should be so?

 

[Harry_Perkins]

Postiga couldnt hit the net for anything in spurs colours, yet before and after us he couldnt stop scoring

Tottenham

After winning the 2003 national championship, Postiga moved to Premier League club Tottenham Hotspur for ?ú6.25 million (Ôé¼9 million), a fee that could raise to ?ú8.36M (Ôé¼12M).[1]

He failed to adapt to the English style of football, only managing to score two goals, one in the league against Liverpool[2] and one in the League Cup against Emirates Marketing Project.[3] As a result, his reputation as an upcoming star drastically decreased.
[edit] Porto return

Postiga then returned to Porto in a deal that sent Pedro Mendes to Tottenham in exchange, with the striker being valued at Ôé¼7.5M.[4] New coach V?¡ctor Fern?índez included him in the team for the 2004ÔÇô05 campaign, but he had another disappointing season. However, following Jos?® Couceiro's appointment as coach, he managed to score three goals before the end of the season.

In 2005, after a promising pre-season, Postiga was demoted to the club's B team, because new coach Co Adriaanse was not happy with his performances. In January 2006, trying to confirm his position in the Portuguese team for the 2006 World Cup, he moved, on loan, to AS Saint-?ëtienne, where he scored two Ligue 1 goals against FC Metz and Le Mans Union Club 72, both resulting in 1ÔÇô0 away victories.

Postiga then returned to Porto for 2006ÔÇô07 where, due to the managerial changes at the club, he found himself back in the first team. Postiga's first few games were a huge improvement from his 2005ÔÇô06 form. A regular starter for the team, he nonetheless fell out of favour towards the end of the season, losing his place to Brazilian Adriano. However, he still managed to score ten league goals.

In January 2008, after having again fallen out of favour, Postiga moved to Panathinaikos FC for a six-month loan period.[5] His first goal for the club came in the Athens derby against AEK Athens FC, in which he equalised (1ÔÇô1)

Sporting CP

On 1 June 2008, it was announced that Postiga had made a shock move to Portuguese rivals Sporting Clube de Portugal, signing a three-year contract for a reported transfer fee of Ôé¼2.5 million, with the Lisbon side acquiring 50% of the player's rights.[6] On 1 September, he scored his first official goal for his new club, the only in a victory at Sporting de Braga.

Postiga's second season as a Lion was disastrous, both collectively ÔÇô Sporting finished fourth ÔÇô and individually (he failed to score in any official competition until 19 April 2010, when he netted the 2ÔÇô1 home winner against Vit??ria de Set??bal, after just one minute on the pitch); although he began as a starter, he soon lost his job to youth graduate Carlos Saleiro.

Even his goal record before he joined us wasn't all that. He just wasn't very good.

And I think a lot of the rest of your claims here are equally dubious. Everyone bangs on about the lasange injustice but the bottom line remains that we had to win on the final day against a very good West Ham side, who should have won the Cup that year and finished 9th. That was never very likely to be a win.