The all new Striker thread..

[P.D.]

here is a new name ..............Clinton Njie at Lyon. However im not sure Aulas will want to deal with Levy again

http://hereisthecity.com/en-gb/2015...ks-with-clinton-njie-attacker-keen-on-totte/?

Never heard of him but sounds promising, I think we can get decent value from France.

 

[Pirate55]

So the £10-15m price range is what we should be looking at?

Who said anything about skin flinting? You list the players you do above, you argue that we should spend £32m on Benteke as a no brainer iirc. When people disagree apparently skin flinting is the option they're arguing? Can you try, just for a second, to not view this as an issue quite as polarized as that?

3 of those recent buys you mentioned were fairly opportunistic. Keane (Leeds financial issues) and Defoe+Crouch (Pompey financial issues) were not us going out to match a release clause for a player like Benteke. Similarly Berbatov was not us going balls to the wall to sign a top rated player on the continent. 2 of them our manager had worked with before, Keane was PL proven. The Berbatov signing had apparently been thoroughly scouted and worked on by the club over time.

Your examples just don't line up with the kind of hyperbolic statements you're making.

The 10-15m range you quote is from another era. ChivChiv was a record at 125k as was Greaves at 99,999 iirc. Times have moved on big time in case you hadn't noticed. Look at the prices paid for top quality now. I agree we aren't in the 40 plus range, but we should be in the 25-30 range for proven PL quality not gambling on foreign players who may or may not make the PL grade - ala Morientes, Schevchenko, Soldado, Rebrov etc. I still think Benteke is ok at 25m plus add ons or swaps. He is 24-25 and proven in the PL, so not such a massive risk as others.

I really wait to see who we are going to buy in the 10 - 15 m range you are advocating.

 

[milo]

The 10-15m range you quote is from another era. ChivChiv was a record at 125k as was Greaves at 99,999 iirc. Times have moved on big time in case you hadn't noticed. Look at the prices paid for top quality now. I agree we aren't in the 40 plus range, but we should be in the 25-30 range for proven PL quality not gambling on foreign players who may or may not make the PL grade - ala Morientes, Schevchenko, Soldado, Rebrov etc. I still think Benteke is ok at 25m plus add ons or swaps. He is 24-25 and proven in the PL, so not such a massive risk as others.

I really wait to see who we are going to buy in the 10 - 15 m range you are advocating.

What I don't get is why the transfer fee is important. If we can pick up a great striker who is out of, or nearing the end, of their contract, isn't that better?

 

[Pirate55]

What I don't get is why the transfer fee is important. If we can pick up a great striker who is out of, or nearing the end, of their contract, isn't that better?

Of course. But there aren't too many of them around. Unless you know someone?

We have to accept we are no longer dining at the top table. If we can get a bargain great, but these guys are just as likely to be snapped up by one of the big boys who can outpay us and offer CL. We therefore have to cut our cloth accordingly. If you can find me a top striker with a proven PL track record who wants to come to us, accept our pay structure and we only pay £10-15m, I say go for it. I am not convinced such a player exists.

 

[braineclipse]

The 10-15m range you quote is from another era. ChivChiv was a record at 125k as was Greaves at 99,999 iirc. Times have moved on big time in case you hadn't noticed. Look at the prices paid for top quality now. I agree we aren't in the 40 plus range, but we should be in the 25-30 range for proven PL quality not gambling on foreign players who may or may not make the PL grade - ala Morientes, Schevchenko, Soldado, Rebrov etc. I still think Benteke is ok at 25m plus add ons or swaps. He is 24-25 and proven in the PL, so not such a massive risk as others.

I really wait to see who we are going to buy in the 10 - 15 m range you are advocating.

"Another era"? I was responding directly to the strikers signed under Redknapp and Ramos you mentioned. Crouch was around £10m, Berba around £11m, Keane and Defoe a bit more than that perhaps. Yes there's been an increase in prices since then, but it's hardly another era. PL proven players not targeted by the CL clubs are once again available at a similar cost.

Mandzukic just went to Juve for a bit less than £15m, not gettable for us as Juve wanted him. But certainly shows that quality is available around that price range. I haven't seen him myself, but Martial at Monaco has been mentioned in the press at a fee not that much higher than £15m. Recent purchases by other PL clubs would certainly indicate that good deals for strikers are available if we manage to do our job identifying them.

One of the players available at around that price that we reportedly was in for was Ings. We couldn't attract him so we move on to the next name on the list (or rather, keep pushing that interest).

Our success has come primarily from identifying and developing players with talent that the big clubs didn't bite at. Under Redknapp in particular we were also successful at identifying proven PL players that fit the system to supplement that, players that could be brought in at a reasonable price. I think that's a sound strategy now as well.

 

[braineclipse]

Of course. But there aren't too many of them around. Unless you know someone?

We have to accept we are no longer dining at the top table. If we can get a bargain great, but these guys are just as likely to be snapped up by one of the big boys who can outpay us and offer CL. We therefore have to cut our cloth accordingly. If you can find me a top striker with a proven PL track record who wants to come to us, accept our pay structure and we only pay £10-15m, I say go for it. I am not convinced such a player exists.

We have a proven striker in Kane. We can afford to go for slightly more speculative signings in that position, potentially with a lower cost lower risk more experienced more proven option to add to that.

When we did get into the CL we did so primarily with Crouch and Defoe as our strikers. Now we play a lone striker and we have Kane that to me seems likely to be better than both of them. Yet we need another "top quality" striker in our squad?

Look at Chelsea. One top striker in Costa, two much cheaper options in Drogba and Remy. Look at City, one top striker in Aguero, no one close to him in current ability or value (despite what they signed them for). Look at Arsenal, arguably one top forward in Sanchez - no real top striker. Who is their additional "top striker"?

 

[milo]

Of course. But there aren't too many of them around. Unless you know someone?

We have to accept we are no longer dining at the top table. If we can get a bargain great, but these guys are just as likely to be snapped up by one of the big boys who can outpay us and offer CL. We therefore have to cut our cloth accordingly. If you can find me a top striker with a proven PL track record who wants to come to us, accept our pay structure and we only pay £10-15m, I say go for it. I am not convinced such a player exists.

Here's a list of strikers whose contracts expire in the next two years (best we brush over the ones they haven't got around to updating)

http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/detailsuche/spielerdetail/suche/1693409

I am not arguing that we should only be looking at players whose contracts are running out, by the way. I haven't seen a convincing argument from you yet to spending big and early, ending the window with better options and a complimentary blend up front is more important to me than when we sign them or the size of the transfer fee.

 

[Pirate55]

We have a proven striker in Kane. We can afford to go for slightly more speculative signings in that position, potentially with a lower cost lower risk more experienced more proven option to add to that.

When we did get into the CL we did so primarily with Crouch and Defoe as our strikers. Now we play a lone striker and we have Kane that to me seems likely to be better than both of them. Yet we need another "top quality" striker in our squad?

Look at Chelsea. One top striker in Costa, two much cheaper options in Drogba and Remy. Look at City, one top striker in Aguero, no one close to him in current ability or value (despite what they signed them for). Look at Arsenal, arguably one top forward in Sanchez - no real top striker. Who is their additional "top striker"?

We have a highly promising striker in Kane with one good season behind him. Will he replicate that next season ? I sincerely hope so but am not too certain he will. Say he gets injured or has a Soldado like dry patch. What then? Chelsea, Arsenal, City and United all have at least three very capable strikers for that position. What's more they can even play two of them at the same time if the occasion arose. We are majorly limited in that position and imo need to bring in real quality here.

 

[Pirate55]

Here's a list of strikers whose contracts expire in the next two years (best we brush over the ones they haven't got around to updating)

http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/detailsuche/spielerdetail/suche/1693409

I am not arguing that we should only be looking at players whose contracts are running out, by the way. I haven't seen a convincing argument from you yet to spending big and early, ending the window with better options and a complimentary blend up front is more important to me than when we sign them or the size of the transfer fee.

But what if spending big and early as you put it , actually lands our primary targets? Should we just wait and hope we can get them cheaper later?

We have seen the disaster of our transfer policy of settling for getting our less favoured option in Stambouli, Fazio, Chiriches, Soldado, Davis, etc etc. we have gone for quantity over quality. It doesn't work and it would be madness imo to do it for the key role of striker

 

[braineclipse]

We have a highly promising striker in Kane with one good season behind him. Will he replicate that next season ? I sincerely hope so but am not too certain he will. Say he gets injured or has a Soldado like dry patch. What then? Chelsea, Arsenal, City and United all have at least three very capable strikers for that position. What's more they can even play two of them at the same time if the occasion arose. We are majorly limited in that position and imo need to bring in real quality here.

So last season's top for have at least three "very capable strikers" behind their first choice. Yet we need to bring in "real quality". If "very capable" is good enough for them, why isn't it for us?

Or would you count Remy, Drogba (last season), Welbeck, Dzeko, Jovetic, Falcao & RvP (last season) as "real quality"?

We compare ourselves to the top 4 because that's where we want to be, but we also have to remember that our budget is much smaller than theirs and comparisons with Liverpool and Everton are just as realistic. I don't think we're in a place where we can realistically expect to have Kane and another truly top striker in our squad. I'm happy we have one top striker, it's sure been a while.

If Kane hits a rough patch we need cover for sure. But I also think we should be the club that allows a talented player like Kane to play through a rough patch and keep trusting him. If he gets injured, well our station in life is that if one of our best players gets injured we won't have an equally good player waiting to take his place. That's been the case for King, Modric, Bale, Berbatov etc... This is the case for just about every football club I know of. We need better cover than Soldado and Adebayor provided last season, but that doesn't take much. There's a wide spectrum between that and truly top class £30m+ players, and I don't think we need cover at that extreme end of that spectrum - even though it would obviously be nice.

 

[Pirate55]

So last season's top for have at least three "very capable strikers" behind their first choice. Yet we need to bring in "real quality". If "very capable" is good enough for them, why isn't it for us?

Or would you count Remy, Drogba (last season), Welbeck, Dzeko, Jovetic, Falcao & RvP (last season) as "real quality"?

We compare ourselves to the top 4 because that's where we want to be, but we also have to remember that our budget is much smaller than theirs and comparisons with Liverpool and Everton are just as realistic. I don't think we're in a place where we can realistically expect to have Kane and another truly top striker in our squad. I'm happy we have one top striker, it's sure been a while.

If Kane hits a rough patch we need cover for sure. But I also think we should be the club that allows a talented player like Kane to play through a rough patch and keep trusting him. If he gets injured, well our station in life is that if one of our best players gets injured we won't have an equally good player waiting to take his place. That's been the case for King, Modric, Bale, Berbatov etc... This is the case for just about every football club I know of. We need better cover than Soldado and Adebayor provided last season, but that doesn't take much. There's a wide spectrum between that and truly top class £30m+ players, and I don't think we need cover at that extreme end of that spectrum - even though it would obviously be nice.

I accept that is your opinion. It is just not one I agree with. If we could have replaced Kane at the end of last season when he was palpably tired, or play someone to share his workload, then we might have a realistic shot at top four.

BTW, you misread my post. I didn't mean three deputies behind the main striker, I meant three capable strikers.

 

[milo]

But what if spending big and early as you put it, actually lands our primary targets? Should we just wait and hope we can get them cheaper later?

We have seen the disaster of our transfer policy of settling for getting our less favoured option in Stambouli, Fazio, Chiriches, Soldado, Davis, etc etc. we have gone for quantity over quality. It doesn't work and it would be madness imo to do it for the key role of striker

I do not think that so far you have made a convincing argument that it is necessary to pay big to secure our primary targets. I do not know who are primary targets up front are or what level of contact there has been between us, them, their agents and clubs.

As I said earlier, you have to pay at the top of or over market price to secure players early and have to pay higher wages. Adopting a policy like that will see wages rise across the squad because other players will seek parity. It will also make it harder to move on a player if they are not successful and will impact on the profitability of those that are.

If we take your first choice target, would you be happy to pay £35m with £100k a week wages to secure Benteke now?

I do not think that our transfer strategy has been a disaster. We have been making consistent and steady progress since ENIC bought the club. Many of the players you list were bought as squad players, have been at least adequate and other than Soldado, we are unlikely to lose much (if any) money on them when they leave the club. I would hope that by bringing in Mitchell means that we can identify quality signings who represent good value for money.

 

[billyiddo]

Patinkle Cisse from Saudi Sportswashing Machine anyone?

Can play the lone forward role, premier league experience, would presumably be happy to play second fiddle to Kane- 1 in 2 strike rate last season (1 in 3 overall) and is entering the 4th year of his time at Saudi Sportswashing Machine so could be available at a good price, although i don't know his contract situation

 

[braineclipse]

I accept that is your opinion. It is just not one I agree with. If we could have replaced Kane at the end of last season when he was palpably tired, or play someone to share his workload, then we might have a realistic shot at top four.

BTW, you misread my post. I didn't mean three deputies behind the main striker, I meant three capable strikers.

I didn't misread your post, just mistyped. We agree on the need for 3 strikers in total.

I know there's a difference of opinion. But you come out saying that no one here is "getting the memo", disagree directly with a claim that big money doesn't equal big success and arguing against "bargain bin" and claiming that we need to "get them in now". You can't be that surprised that people disagree with you and expect you to back up your opinion with some reasoning.

It seems to me that you're asking for striker options behind Kane stronger and in many cases more expensive than what the top 4 clubs have behind their star strikers/forwards. That's a pretty massive ask...

 

[Baleforce]

Patinkle Cisse from Saudi Sportswashing Machine anyone?

Can play the lone forward role, premier league experience, would presumably be happy to play second fiddle to Kane- 1 in 2 strike rate last season (1 in 3 overall) and is entering the 4th year of his time at Saudi Sportswashing Machine so could be available at a good price, although i don't know his contract situation

bit injury prone isn't he?

also, is he a high energy type, seems a bit distracted at times from what I've seen

 

[billyiddo]

bit injury prone isn't he?

also, is he a high energy type, seems a bit distracted at times from what I've seen

I've only seen him on highlight shows tbf - Im not sure either whether he has a recurring injury or what but our injury record has improved massively since the move to the new training ground, perhaps this would benefit him...

 

[Bedfordspurs]

The key is getting players who will improve the squad by either being simply better than we have or by suiting the system Poch wants to play, irrelevant of transfer fees as long as we can afford them

If Poch wants a benteke and its £32M and we can afford that we should be all over buying him

However if their is an alternative that he would be happy with for less then why would you spend more????

What we have to do is make sure we have enough players of sufficient quality to make the squad better and more suited to the style Poch wants to play.

And for what it's worth Berahino and Austin for the same money as Benteke would be good business for me, but I'm not the man in charge

 

[Jordinho]

Patinkle Cisse from Saudi Sportswashing Machine anyone?

Can play the lone forward role, premier league experience, would presumably be happy to play second fiddle to Kane- 1 in 2 strike rate last season (1 in 3 overall) and is entering the 4th year of his time at Saudi Sportswashing Machine so could be available at a good price, although i don't know his contract situation

13 goals in 14 league games when joined. He is incredibly overrated because those few months is what has stuck in people's minds. 21 goals in 82 league games since. As a backup striker I'd expect an even lower ratio plus high wages to keep him happy.

 

[billyiddo]

13 goals in 14 league games when joined. He is incredibly overrated because those few months is what has stuck in people's minds. 21 goals in 82 league games since. As a backup striker I'd expect an even lower ratio plus high wages to keep him happy.

He had a 1 in 2 strike rate last season though which is pretty good and throughout his career he has been slightly better than 1 in 3 - 3 seasons in Germany included in that where he saw his best goal return of a goal every 1.7 games. 1 in 2 for Senegal. Purely in terms of goals i think those are all good numbers

 

[P.D.]

Cisse wouldn't be a bad shout as backup. His record would have been better but he's been injured and in and out of the side.