Richarlison

[Grays_1890]

Just to bring out a very clear point - the moment he tried to foul the Bournemouth player when he had lost the ball, which may have resulted in a red card - that was it for me. He is not a kid, he is not a teenager - he is 26 years old if I am not mistaken. He needs to grow up. Till then I am very much in favour of either loaning him out or selling him. That act was a very selfish act and would have let the entire team down.

Yeah, in an ideal world

GHod forbid you have a hard time or slump in an environment of high pressure where you lash out and people say "sack him"

I don't think he is the greatest player of all time but FFS, some people take things to the holier than thou level of judgement on things

At least be honest and just say you don't rate him, players get sent off all the time, to hone in on a red card as your breaking point is disingenuous

 

[djp82]

I get the give him time camp but I just don’t see him scoring many goals. He’s never been prolific.

The rest of his game is pretty average.Yes he’s a nine for Brazil but we are not taking Brazil of old they are pretty average side these days so all the but he’s Brazil’s number 9 stuff means nothing.

Sometimes things don’t work out at certain clubs. We over paid for him without doubt and he’s not shown anything to me that says he’s going to come good. He’s far too inconsistent. Brief periods he looks a world beater but it’s rare rather than the norm.

We must sign a striker before Friday.

 

[afsoc4life]

Yeah, in an ideal world

GHod forbid you have a hard time or slump in an environment of high pressure where you lash out and people say "sack him"

I don't think he is the greatest player of all time but FFS, some people take things to the holier than thou level of judgement on things

At least be honest and just say you don't rate him, players get sent off all the time, to hone in on a red card as your breaking point is disingenuous

Your comment reads of an attempt to bring emotional blackmail into this. Such things roll off my body - I live in a country where if people had the chances this player had - they would do so much more with it. I like the guy. If I were near him I would be asking him why he would try to do something so stupidly selfish. Lets imagine - they gave him a red card - what does that do to Spurs? Also step back and realise it is not either one side or the other. He has had my support in the past but that behaviour today - that was selfish to the point that he would rather damage the team's chances to win the game and their future matches. He is 26 years old!! I expect such from a teenager at most.

High pressure is a match vs Bournemouth, really high pressure.... I wonder how you view the pressure soldiers who put their actual lives on the line face.

Once again he is not a kid - if I see an adult in a work environment do this, I would be pulling him out of that environment; ditto exactly what I am suggesting for him. He needs to get his head together. He whined he didnt get chances - He is getting chances. He has made 30 appearances for Spurs - 30!

 

[Grays_1890]

Your comment reads of an attempt to bring emotional blackmail into this. Such things roll off my body - I live in a country where if people had the chances this player had - they would do so much more with it. I like the guy. If I were near him I would be asking him why he would try to do something so stupidly selfish. Lets imagine - they gave him a red card - what does that do to Spurs? Also step back and realise it is not either one side or the other. He has had my support in the past but that behaviour today - that was selfish to the point that he would rather damage the team's chances to win the game and their future matches. He is 26 years old!! I expect such from a teenager at most.

High pressure is a match vs Bournemouth, really high pressure.... I wonder how you view the pressure soldiers who put their actual lives on the line face.

Once again he is not a kid - if I see an adult in a work environment do this, I would be pulling him out of that environment; ditto exactly what I am suggesting for him. He needs to get his head together. He whined he didnt get chances - He is getting chances. He has made 30 appearances for Spurs - 30!

Its not emotional blackmail its just a reflection of your post. And you follow it up by using your own level of emotional blackmail by comparing him to a soldier I mean FFS. Everyone faces pressures that are relative to their own situation, if you can't see or reflect on that then there is no hope.

Like I say, would be more genuine to say you just don't rate him

 

[spurspinter1]

Your comment reads of an attempt to bring emotional blackmail into this. Such things roll off my body - I live in a country where if people had the chances this player had - they would do so much more with it. I like the guy. If I were near him I would be asking him why he would try to do something so stupidly selfish. Lets imagine - they gave him a red card - what does that do to Spurs? Also step back and realise it is not either one side or the other. He has had my support in the past but that behaviour today - that was selfish to the point that he would rather damage the team's chances to win the game and their future matches. He is 26 years old!! I expect such from a teenager at most.

High pressure is a match vs Bournemouth, really high pressure.... I wonder how you view the pressure soldiers who put their actual lives on the line face.

Once again he is not a kid - if I see an adult in a work environment do this, I would be pulling him out of that environment; ditto exactly what I am suggesting for him. He needs to get his head together. He whined he didnt get chances - He is getting chances. He has made 30 appearances for Spurs - 30!

Did you have the same level of outrage when your mate Dele who got an actual red card against Gent led to us being knocked out of a European cup competition? That challenge was essentially assault and threw the game (and the chance of progressing) in one fell swoop. I don't recall you bringing age or where he is from in to it during the time, as for the random war/ soldier comparison, that's a big ol' shrug from me.

It was a lying down tackle which although borne out of frustration was nowhere near a red card and it wasn't intentionally sabotaging the game like you're making it out to be. Obviously it wasn't a positive incident but it's odd for that to be some kind of tipping point, players have done much much much worse and Richy deserves/ needs our support.

Not against making another signing in that position but Son can move in to the centre and Solomon can fill the gap on the left, I'm sure we haven't signed him just to sit on the bench. As Ange said, it's a discussion if Richy hasn't scored in 20 games this season but the goals were always going to be spread out throughout the team post Kane but still early days.

 

[Bishop]

He needs an arm round him, he is clearly in a bad spot, like you say also needs one to fall for him.

I don't think the OTT reactions to all he does wrong helps, its clear some is weighted by Kanes exit

What I find interesting is people who are saying "lets not get carried away about Ange" are the same ones who make definitive assessments on who and who are not going to make it, you can't have it all ways, bloke needs to be backed, like him or not he is a Spurs player

Not exactly a true analogy. Ange has had 3 games in the PL. Richy has played 165 PL games. This is not a new level for him nor is he a new face. Sure some may not have watched him much for Everton and Watford but some of us have. I've not judged him based solely on his Tottenham career so far but on the games over the course of his career.

I think he can do better, I've seen him do that. I still wouldn't say I think he can be the answer. I've seen enough of him over the years to be very doubtful of that. That's not to say we shouldn't give him every chance to prove himself, but you can't really say we can't question his worth as yet.

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[Finney Is Back]

Did you have the same level of outrage when your mate Dele who got an actual red card against Gent led to us being knocked out of a European cup competition? That challenge was essentially assault and threw the game (and the chance of progressing) in one fell swoop. I don't recall you bringing age or where he is from in to it during the time, as for the random war/ soldier comparison, that's a big ol' shrug from me.

It was a lying down tackle which although borne out of frustration was nowhere near a red card and it wasn't intentionally sabotaging the game like you're making it out to be. Obviously it wasn't a positive incident but it's odd for that to be some kind of tipping point, players have done much much much worse and Richy deserves/ needs our support.

Not against making another signing in that position but Son can move in to the centre and Solomon can fill the gap on the left, I'm sure we haven't signed him just to sit on the bench. As Ange said, it's a discussion if Richy hasn't scored in 20 games this season but the goals were always going to be spread out throughout the team post Kane but still early days.

As the ‘tackle’ (and I use that word loosely) happened I thought that could be a red as it was a kick out at a player after the ball had long gone.

 

[Grays_1890]

Not exactly a true analogy. Ange has had 3 games in the PL. Richy has played 165 PL games. This is not a new level for him nor is he a new face. Sure some may not have watched him much for Everton and Watford but some of us have. I've not judged him based solely on his Tottenham career so far but on the games over the course of his career.

I think he can do better, I've seen him do that. I still wouldn't say I think he can be the answer. I've seen enough of him over the years to be very doubtful of that. That's not to say we shouldn't give him every chance to prove himself, but you can't really say we can't question his worth as yet.

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But effectively this is his 3rd game as a true CF for Spurs in a unique situation to him under a new manager et all

If as you say we are using his full history of PL time he does score goals, not in the volume of others but within reason, with Everton and coming in from LW and never as a CF he does that. So for people to judge him on an injury ravaged, WC interfered season at Spurs, which had happened (lost count of the will he ever score post) for me its inaccurate of the true player and post about him letting the team down, which was my main beef is OTT.

 

[Baleforce]

As the ‘tackle’ (and I use that word loosely) happened I thought that could be a red as it was a kick out at a player after the ball had long gone.

it was still an attempt at the ball

 

[spurspinter1]

As the ‘tackle’ (and I use that word loosely) happened I thought that could be a red as it was a kick out at a player after the ball had long gone.

I had a pretty good view in the pub but didn't see a replay, it didn't seem that bad in my head as it looked like a genuine attempt to get the ball but if it was pure petulance that had nothing to do with being able to win the ball back then it's obviously not a good look. If someone posts a clip that suggests we got away with one on the VAR front then fair enough, I'd understand a bit more about the reaction from a few on here but even then, I'm sure Richy would be spoken to about it. I like emotional players and coaches but there's no room for lashing out (Perisic, a seasoned operator was a couple of inches off a case for a red card too such are the rules).

He still did a lot of good in the first half, it's something to build on but it clearly fell apart in the 2nd half. I wonder if there's a case of Soldado with it, openly I just want the guy to score and do well. When Bobby notched one it was so beautiful because the love from the fans was there to see rather than having everyone turn on him.

 

[Bishop]

But effectively this is his 3rd game as a true CF for Spurs in a unique situation to him under a new manager et all

If as you say we are using his full history of PL time he does score goals, not in the volume of others but within reason, with Everton and coming in from LW and never as a CF he does that. So for people to judge him on an injury ravaged, WC interfered season at Spurs, which had happened (lost count of the will he ever score post) for me its inaccurate of the true player and post about him letting the team down, which was my main beef is OTT.

I'm a fairly simple guy. I watch football, I look at the positions players take up, how they position their body, how soft or heavy their first touch is, how much spatial game awareness do they show? What is their passing like? Over or under hit or just perfectly into the stride. Are they greedy, do they play others in when in better positions, how accurate is their passing? Can they play through lines? What's their speed like? Can they dribble? If so how? Are they a body feinter or maybe a pure speed merchant? If they've beaten their opposition, what next? Do they use the ball well or does the attack lead to nothing? How is their shooting? First time? Power? Precision? How well do they cope under pressure in the box? Can they still beat their man? How steady are they on their feet? Etc etc, etc.

I've watched Richarlison over 100 times, I already have a spider graph in my head of his general attributes. Trust me when I say I'm not judging him on last season. Actually as a rule I always give any player no matter how well I know that player or how poor they are (even Sissoko in both cases) one free season to judge them. Last season is kind of neither here nor there for me. My concerns over Richy are borne of my long considered view of him as a player, not his performances last season.

I think I've said on this forum before I think he can potentially get 15 goals this season so I'm not writing him off at all. I still don't think even with 15 goals that I would ever think he's quite what we need. Just as a striker I think he lacks too many attributes that would make him suitable imo of course.

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[Grays_1890]

I'm a fairly simple guy. I watch football, I look at the positions players take up, how they position their body, how soft or heavy their first touch is, how much spatial game awareness do they show? What is their passing like? Over or under hit or just perfectly into the stride. Are they greedy, do they play others in when in better positions, how accurate is their passing? Can they play through lines? What's their speed like? Can they dribble? If so how? Are they a body feinter or maybe a pure speed merchant? If they've beaten their opposition, what next? Do they use the ball well or does the attack lead to nothing? How is their shooting? First time? Power? Precision? How well do they cope under pressure in the box? Can they still beat their man? How steady are they on their feet? Etc etc, etc.

I've watched Richarlison over 100 times, I already have a spider graph in my head of his general attributes. Trust me when I say I'm not judging him on last season. Actually as a rule I always give any player no matter how well I know that player or how poor they are (even Sissoko in both cases) one free season to judge them. Last season is kind of neither here nor there for me. My concerns over Richy are borne of my long considered view of him as a player, not his performances last season.

I think I've said on this forum before I think he can potentially get 15 goals this season so I'm not writing him off at all. I still don't think even with 15 goals that I would ever think he's quite what we need. Just as a striker I think he lacks too many attributes that would make him suitable imo of course.

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BTW I am talking about the overreactions not you specifically, for my money people are taking a leave of reality with some of the comments levelled at him. Saying he let the team down....ridiculous

Kudos if you have seen him 100 times, but you would know he has rarely played in the PL as an out and out CF. For most seasons he was behind CL, Toson, Lookman and played off the left. Despite that he finished top scorer in his first season, the second season the same, his record still stacking up thereafter too, he might not be a natural scorer but he scores goals, to say otherwise is abit of a lie TBH. When people say that they are 100% judging him on his time at Spurs (not you BTW)

He is a 1-3 player from a LF area in his career, he is having a bad time, people need to get abit of a grip TBH

 

[Lilbaz]

His head is gone at the moment. I don't think he's a bad player. But would like some competition brought in. We have son and the argentinian but i still want orban.

Fight it out between them. See who succedes and who we let go.

 

[MKSpur]

He's under a lot of pressure because if last season. The media, opposing fans jeering every mistake. Will take some mental strength to turn it around, Royal could dispense some advice on this.

In isolation I'm not sure his performances have been that bad this season, especially compared to Kulu and Son.

When he coughed up possession that was when I think Ange decided he was trying to hard and brought him off.

Thought the one where he checked inside and put the defender on his arse was particularly unlucky as the handball just took the pace off the ball to push it under his feet. I have no idea how pens are decided now though.

We do need an alternative though. The way we play now means the box is usually a lot busier than the old counter attacking style. We need direct ice cold finisher, physicality and occupying a centre back isn't the main attributes we need for this manager.

Also wouldn't mind seeing him and Son swap within the game to mix it up a bit.

Oh I missed the potential red for Richy but I did think that Perisic for all his experience was taking a chance with his retaliation on Aarons.

 

[afsoc4life]

Did you have the same level of outrage when your mate Dele who got an actual red card against Gent led to us being knocked out of a European cup competition? That challenge was essentially assault and threw the game (and the chance of progressing) in one fell swoop. I don't recall you bringing age or where he is from in to it during the time, as for the random war/ soldier comparison, that's a big ol' shrug from me.

It was a lying down tackle which although borne out of frustration was nowhere near a red card and it wasn't intentionally sabotaging the game like you're making it out to be. Obviously it wasn't a positive incident but it's odd for that to be some kind of tipping point, players have done much much much worse and Richy deserves/ needs our support.

Not against making another signing in that position but Son can move in to the centre and Solomon can fill the gap on the left, I'm sure we haven't signed him just to sit on the bench. As Ange said, it's a discussion if Richy hasn't scored in 20 games this season but the goals were always going to be spread out throughout the team post Kane but still early days.

You really need to read my history and posts on Dele.

As for my opinion on Richarlison, I have said earlier I would love for him to succeed. However his actions today IMHO were a danger to the team's prospects and I believe Ange removed him to prevent further escalation. If you check my past posts on him, I had most likely commented that he was unlucky in his positioning.

For the sake of history, my saying that a player should be removed from the squad doesn't mean I physically hate or dislike the player.

In summary one cannot be leading the Spurs line and behaving like a baby at the age of 26.

 

[spurspinter1]

You really need to read my history and posts on Dele.

As for my opinion on Richarlison, I have said earlier I would love for him to succeed. However his actions today IMHO were a danger to the team's prospects and I believe Ange removed him to prevent further escalation. If you check my past posts on him, I had most likely commented that he was unlucky in his positioning.

For the sake of history, my saying that a player should be removed from the squad doesn't mean I physically hate or dislike the player.

In summary one cannot be leading the Spurs line and behaving like a baby at the age of 26.

Avoiding the question on Dele re Gent but simultaneously seemingly desperate to defend Mason Greenwood on the Utd thread but lay in to Richarlison. Interesting.

On the incident today, not to sound too Wenger but I clearly need to see it again, it didn't seem that bad to me as I've said but if he has lashed out with no chance to win the ball it's not good at all. In that case, people like you or I would be right to be annoyed but imo it can't have been that bad if VAR didn't pick it up and result in a red card.

A call for him to be loaned out or sold because of an inconsequential incident if not baby-ish is juvenile behavior though, I'm not suggesting that is because of any personal vendetta against him but it's over the top imo.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

We need an alternative
It would be poor to not have another “striker” in the squad
Mainly because we don’t actually have one IMO
Neither son or Richy are strikers
Both have players there as gap fillers and kinda filled the roll

 

[spurspinter1]

We need an alternative
It would be poor to not have another “striker” in the squad
Mainly because we don’t actually have one IMO
Neither son or Richy are strikers
Both have players there as gap fillers and kinda filled the roll

Bale wasn't a proper LW and then RW before he stepped in and kinda filled the roll, he was a LB through and through. Should be have stayed there because that's where he was played? (Obviously he was a special case but hope the point still stands as a thought provoker).

An alternative is Son moving there with Solomon on the left. In reference to Solomon, why would we sign players to just become deadwood?

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Bale wasn't a proper LW and then RW before he stepped in and kinda filled the roll, he was a LB through and through. Should be have stayed there because that's where he was played? (Obviously he was a special case but hope the point still stands as a thought provoker).

An alternative is Son moving there with Solomon on the left. In reference to Solomon, why would we sign players to just become deadwood?

I don’t think we sign anyone to become deadwood
I’m really keen to see som play a central role as he feels wasted on the left for me
But it’s now about the whole rather than individuals
Not sure why your mentioning Solomon against my post
I like him by the way and would like to see him get minutes
But Perisic has been very good when called in

the bale reference is interesting
Son has got kinda near to it to win his golden boot
Richarlison could only dream of it imo

 

[Grays_1890]

I don’t think we sign anyone to become deadwood
I’m really keen to see som play a central role as he feels wasted on the left for me
But it’s now about the whole rather than individuals
Not sure why your mentioning Solomon against my post
I like him by the way and would like to see him get minutes
But Perisic has been very good when called in

the bale reference is interesting
Son has got kinda near to it to win his golden boot
Richarlison could only dream of it imo

Yeh agree, the collective will be the key here. I see alot of changes, alot of players used, I also expect to see a number of in game changes like today as its a high energy brand of football.