Repetitive bickering and point scoring about money and our transfer policy

[jimmyb]

Re: **Official Other Games Thread, Season 2012/13**

The expert accountants amongst us claim that the the financial report shows conclusive evidence that we have no money to spend......you ask these experts how did we bid 23m on moutinho then.....the 'experts' state it's because of the little down payment offer we made to Porto (it seems they know exactly what amount we offered up front, what we offered in instalments etc etc).

It seems to me that you are majoring rather too much on semantics.

The original point, however it was expressed, was that we are spending all the money that we earn. There isn't some huge war chest that Levy is withholding from the manager.

Discussing our ability to afford Moutinho, or not, is entirely moot at this point since the financial report for the 2012-13 season will not be published until late this year or early in 2014. For what it's worth, my guess is that we could have afforded Moutinho and that the deal faltered because of the reported last minute, third party ownership issues.

 

[Kingdawson]

Re: **Official Other Games Thread, Season 2012/13**

And thats coming from the same people who wanted us to sign Damiao in January, who would have costed 15m.

So one day, there is money, the other there isnt..

There is money but we're not just spending it. Wonder where its going while the match tickets are getting more expensive.

Actually you make an excellent point and one i will investigate.

The financial reports apparently became public on January 22nd 2013. If any of these posters who are adamant the financial report confirms we have little money to play with are in the transfer thread (or any other thread) for that matter, calling for the signing of player X or player Y, AFTER the reports have come out...then i'm afraid to say they are being very hypocritical. I'll have a look.

 

[Superhudd]

Re: **Official Other Games Thread, Season 2012/13**

Actually you make an excellent point and one i will investigate.

The financial reports apparently became public on January 22nd 2013. If any of these posters who are adamant the financial report confirms we have little money to play with are in the transfer thread (or any other thread) for that matter, calling for the signing of player X or player Y, AFTER the reports have come out...then i'm afraid to say they are being very hypocritical. I'll have a look.

Wasn't January, was a couple of weeks ago.

 

[braineclipse]

Re: what has happened to the transfer section?

Oh you finally got around to reading the statement then..that's good.

you claimed nobody made that statement.I pointed you to someone that did and you ignored it, i pointed you again and you asked me to point it to you for the third time. You don't have to defend anything but don't claim it wasn't said when it was.

I had to look that one up.

To me there's a difference between pointing out that we "based on the reports we didn't have any money to spend after last season" and saying that "the reports last year states that we don't have money to spend". I thought you were bending his words so I tried to correct you by saying that no one is saying that we don't have any money to spend.

Spursalot was clearly talking about the reports released about the time up until before the summer window closed and before we sold Modric and VdV and made several signings.

When will you get around to reading my statement in reply to you where I asked you to back up your statement where you said that when the financial reports showed us making a profit we still didn't spend?

 

[Superhudd]

Re: **Official Other Games Thread, Season 2012/13**

So no one has yet bitten.. good on everyone

 

[Jurgen the German]

Re: **Official Other Games Thread, Season 2012/13**

It seems to me that you are majoring rather too much on semantics.

The original point, however it was expressed, was that we are spending all the money that we earn. There isn't some huge war chest that Levy is withholding from the manager.

Discussing our ability to afford Moutinho, or not, is entirely moot at this point since the financial report for the 2012-13 season will not be published until late this year or early in 2014. For what it's worth, my guess is that we could have afforded Moutinho and that the deal faltered because of the reported last minute, third party ownership issues.

Of course, I don't think any of us are saying Levy has hundreds of millions which he isn't giving to Levy, but it's about spending and paying what is necessary for top players at the right times, we all know we can't afford to spend £50m every window.

The January transfer window is like Groundhog Day, we do nothing more often than not for 30 days, then we launch an outlandish bid for top strikers like Aguero and Damiao, then people STILL give Levy credit for "trying" and not actually achieving anything. I really think we missed the boat big time with Moutinho. I can see a bigger club coming in for him in the summer.

 

[djp82]

Re: **Official Other Games Thread, Season 2012/13**

Rather than all the back and forward about the net spend so on and so on its more the targets for me.

We sell key players and replace them with alternatives that don't cut it.

People where delighted with Siggy but was he that good last year bar a few good strikes ? Dempsey smacked of desperation. Verts and Moussa were good but we were desperate for a centre half and some form of Modric replacement .

If bale goes this summer how can we replace him ? Not happening ...

Thus we will never break the cycle of oh it will be a transition season because that's the way levy runs the club... Find the rough diamond polish it up and make some serious profit good business from a business man and business point of view ...

 

[Spursalot]

Re: **Official Other Games Thread, Season 2012/13**

Of course, I don't think any of us are saying Levy has hundreds of millions which he isn't giving to Levy, but it's about spending and paying what is necessary for top players at the right times, we all know we can't afford to spend £50m every window.

The January transfer window is like Groundhog Day, we do nothing more often than not for 30 days, then we launch an outlandish bid for top strikers like Aguero and Damiao, then people STILL give Levy credit for "trying" and not actually achieving anything. I really think we missed the boat big time with Moutinho. I can see a bigger club coming in for him in the summer.

I thought Damiao was offered to us, i could be wrong on that though.

 

[Kingdawson]

Re: **Official Other Games Thread, Season 2012/13**

Wasn't January, was a couple of weeks ago.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/21152143

pardon?

 

[Jurgen the German]

Re: **Official Other Games Thread, Season 2012/13**

Rather than all the back and forward about the net spend so on and so on its more the targets for me.

[B]We sell key players and replace them with alternatives that don't cut it.[/B]

People where delighted with Siggy but was he that good last year bar a few good strikes ? Dempsey smacked of desperation. Verts and Moussa were good but we were desperate for a centre half and some form of Modric replacement .

If bale goes this summer how can we replace him ? Not happening ...

Thus we will never break the cycle of oh it will be a transition season because that's the way levy runs the club... Find the rough diamond polish it up and make some serious profit good business from a business man and business point of view ...

Pretty much this.

I wouldn't accept any money in the world for Bale because I simply can't see us replacing him with someone even half as good.

 

[Spursalot]

Re: **Official Other Games Thread, Season 2012/13**

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/21152143

pardon?

Nowhere in that does it say accounts are accessible to the public. Just the key figures were given to the media.

 

[braineclipse]

Re: **Official Other Games Thread, Season 2012/13**

Actually you make an excellent point and one i will investigate.

The financial reports apparently became public on January 22nd 2013. If any of these posters who are adamant the financial report confirms we have little money to play with are in the transfer thread (or any other thread) for that matter, calling for the signing of player X or player Y, AFTER the reports have come out...then i'm afraid to say they are being very hypocritical. I'll have a look.

"Had", past tense. The report is for the period ending some time mid summer last year. People are using it to show that in the past we've spent the money that was available to us.

As has been mentioned lot of times already we will at the very least have additional funds available from the improved tv deal, unless that money has already been spent on wages, agent fees or the stadium project. Our exact current financial situation isn't known to us.

 

[Kingdawson]

Re: **Official Other Games Thread, Season 2012/13**

Nowhere in that does it say accounts are accessible to the public. Just the key figures were given to the media.

wait wait wait...

Being that you seem to be clued up in accounts. You're saying that the key figures are not the way you came to the conclusion that we had no money? you're saying there was something else in that report bar those figures? ok please please just point me to the page where you came to this conclusion then. You don't have to explain anything, you don't have to elaborate on things i don't understand...just point me to the part that helped you arrive to your conclusion (not the key figures that are on the BBC site of course).

 

[Superhudd]

Re: **Official Other Games Thread, Season 2012/13**

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/21152143

pardon?

http://www.glory-glory.co.uk/showth...tspur-Accounts-2012&highlight=companies+house

 

[Spursalot]

Re: **Official Other Games Thread, Season 2012/13**

wait wait wait...

Being that you seem to be clued up in accounts. You're saying that the key figures are not the way you came to the conclusion that we had no money? you're saying there was something else in that report bar those figures? ok please please just point me to the page where you came to this conclusion then. You don't have to explain anything, you don't have to elaborate on things i don't understand...just point me to the part that helped you arrive to your conclusion (not the key figures that are on the BBC site of course).

Assets , Liabilities, Revenues and Capital in here http://www.tottenhamhotspur.com/media/docs/annual_report_2012a.pdf


Pages 9 - 13 , 17 - 24 , 26-29 and 32 - 33.

If you only look at the key figures, you only get the face of the accounts, you don't actually see whats going on.

Added to the extrapolation that we had around a zero net spend this season.

 

[Kingdawson]

Re: **Official Other Games Thread, Season 2012/13**

"Had", past tense. The report is for the period ending some time mid summer last year. People are using it to show that in the past we've spent the money that was available to us.

As has been mentioned lot of times already we will at the very least have additional funds available from the improved tv deal, unless that money has already been spent on wages, agent fees or the stadium project. Our exact current financial situation isn't known to us.

Pardon me? excuse me?

If this is the case then why exactly have you not said this when countless others decided to mention the report as evidence that we have no money to spend now...and we didn't have any to spend then? how come you're just saying this now when it was some other posters that actually brought up the reports first?

also if it's not the report...then what has now made you think we won't have much?

 

[jimmyb]

Re: **Official Other Games Thread, Season 2012/13**

Actually you make an excellent point and one i will investigate.

The financial reports apparently became public on January 22nd 2013. If any of these posters who are adamant the financial report confirms we have little money to play with are in the transfer thread (or any other thread) for that matter, calling for the signing of player X or player Y, AFTER the reports have come out...then i'm afraid to say they are being very hypocritical. I'll have a look.

Once again, transfer activity since 30th June 2012 isn't really relevant to this discussion since the current financial reporting period will not end until 30th June 2013. And the results will not be published for another 4-7 months after that.

The point that some were making was that, according to all the published accounts, Spurs are spending the money that they make. Speculating or being demanding about transfers at the time that they are occurring (or not occurring!) is a completely unrelated matter since it has nothing to do with published accounts. So there's nothing hypocritical about it.

Which means that you can save yourself the time and effort of stalking other people's posts!

 

[Modric THFC]

Re: **Official Other Games Thread, Season 2012/13**

wait wait wait...

Being that you seem to be clued up in accounts. You're saying that the key figures are not the way you came to the conclusion that we had no money? you're saying there was something else in that report bar those figures? ok please please just point me to the page where you came to this conclusion then. You don't have to explain anything, you don't have to elaborate on things i don't understand...just point me to the part that helped you arrive to your conclusion (not the key figures that are on the BBC site of course).

Financial organisations release a press release to the media in advance filled with positive spin. Only positive figures are reported in this and the rest is conveniently ignored.

 

[braineclipse]

Re: **Official Other Games Thread, Season 2012/13**

Pardon me? excuse me?

If this is the case then why exactly have you not said this when countless others decided to mention the report as evidence that we have no money to spend now...and we didn't have any to spend then? how come you're just saying this now when it was some other posters that actually brought up the reports first?

also if it's not the report...then what has now made you think we won't have much?

Like I said in the other thread, I said "no one is saying that we don't have anything to spend" quite some hours ago. But you thought that was me just not reading the posts or whatever.

For anyone to make direct and exact claims about our current financial situation based on a report released from before the Modric, VdV, Dembele, Dempsey and Lloris (++) deals seems to me pretty silly. I didn't think anyone were making those claims, I still don't.

I'm yet to see someone say that we have no money to spend now (summer window). What people have been saying is that we didn't have any money saved up as of the end of last season, in fact we had some solid (although manageable) loans. We then seemed to more or less break even over the summer, this is of course speculative as we don't know the details.

We also know that we have in the past spent the money that has been available eventually, although it seems that you have disagreed.

Based on this people are speculating that we won't have a ton of money saved up now either. Seems reasonable. That's far from saying that we have no money or that we can't afford to spend though.

Once again you mix up "no money" and "much money". I've already said in the transfer thread that I think we might see a £15-20m net spend in the summer at best, I would be surprised if we spent any more. We have the extra tv money coming in and if we can make one of those big money installment deals happen we will be able to afford a net spend like that.

 

[jimmyb]

Re: what has happened to the transfer section?

Oh you finally got around to reading the statement then..that's good.

you claimed nobody made that statement.I pointed you to someone that did and you ignored it, i pointed you again and you asked me to point it to you for the third time. You don't have to defend anything but don't claim it wasn't said when it was.

Seriously.....why the ceaseless semantics? Just for the sake of being argumentative? Really?