Repetitive bickering and point scoring about money and our transfer policy

[ArcspacE]

Re: **Official Other Games Thread, Season 2012/13**

Well not exactly.

You can debate that he has made mistakes. At the point you are talking about the people that are defending him you are no longer discussing Levy.

All you ever seem to do is descend upon this Levy-related discussions within minutes and factually go on to conclude he's doing the best he can with what he has and we should be grateful. Others however chose to 'query' certain aspects which is where the debate comes

 

[Kingdawson]

Re: **Official Other Games Thread, Season 2012/13**

Once again, there's no point discussing the attempted Moutinho deal in the same terms as deals that occurred during or prior to the 2011-12 accounting period.

The point that was made about the published accounts - namely that they show that the club spends the money that it makes - is a valid one. The point that you are trying to make about the attempted Moutinho deal, by contrast, is moot............for the simple reason that it occurred during the current accounting period and there are therefore no published figures on which to base any kind of hypothesis.

I was directing that at spursalot who claimed the report shows we had no money to spend last summer...so the point stands.

 

[Spursalot]

Re: **Official Other Games Thread, Season 2012/13**

No - just when someone is pushing speculation as factual events constructed in a clever screenplay to make the scenario 'work'

i.e. We did sign Crouch - fact

i.e. We didn't sign Damiao because we couldn't afford his lunch allowance - speculation

In that case we may as well not talk about any of the players that Levy has failed to sign as that would be speculation.


If we're not going to speculate, then why are we even here? We may as well just sit and wait for the club to announce signings and then make comments on them.

Everything i ever post is my opinion. Even the 'facts' are my opinion, except something i have taken from an external website and cited, which is that websites opinion.


Edit: If that's not what you mean than fair enough, i've sort of gotten lost as to what your current point actually is.

 

[Modric THFC]

Re: what has happened to the transfer section?

None of the above - I'm suggesting there is so much more to our finances (knoweldge/information wise) than is published in those pdfs

Unless you are intimately involved witht the club (which I sincerely doubt you are, anymore than an active participant on the skyscraper forums) - there is abosolutely NO WAY you can conslclusively state what we can and cannot afford

Just because Real Madrid finances are not reported accurately (spanish government paying off their debts etc), doesn't mean your other club doesn't report its finances to proper regulation.

 

[jimmyb]

Re: **Official Other Games Thread, Season 2012/13**

Are you the self-appointed Levy paladin who decides what is 'nonsensical' and 'ignorant', jimmy?

There you go again...

What's with this pro Levy / anti Levy childishness?

I merely say things as I see them.

If someone chooses to ignore the evidence of the published accounts of a public limited company (as Spurs has been for the vast majority of Levy's time at the club) but make all sorts of financial claims and criticisms nevertheless, then what is their criticism if not ignorant?

 

[ArcspacE]

Re: **Official Other Games Thread, Season 2012/13**

Spursalot - that is not what I said - you seem to have missed the point

 

[charlietheyid]

Re: **Official Other Games Thread, Season 2012/13**

At the end of the day, what counts is the result. One champions league tour since hes the chairman is very very poor. That has to be blamed on a poor choice of managers and poor investments. I cant say much more than that.

 

[jimmyb]

Re: **Official Other Games Thread, Season 2012/13**

As is protecting him from ANY and ALL criticism regarding his actions and general attitude to transfers

Who does that?

 

[Spursalot]

Re: **Official Other Games Thread, Season 2012/13**

Spursalot - that is not what I said - you seem to have missed the point

I thought i might have gotten lost, so i added an edit before you replied. Sorry. :-"

 

[ArcspacE]

Re: **Official Other Games Thread, Season 2012/13**

There you go again...

What's with this pro Levy / anti Levy childishness?

I merely say things as I see them.

If someone chooses to ignore the evidence of the published accounts of a public limited company (as Spurs has been for the vast majority of Levy's time at the club) but make all sorts of financial claims and criticisms nevertheless, then what is their criticism if not ignorant?

Just fyi - I'm not pro or anti - Levy - I'm pro - fair/objective 'treatment' of anyone, including the main man

There are numerous aspects in which I believe he can improve (our scouting especially) but it often seems to me there is an accepted truth on here which renders any 'questions' towards him equal to heresy and assault. He's not above the rim, as far as I'm concerned.

 

[P.D.]

Re: **Official Other Games Thread, Season 2012/13**

Because magic new streams of income done appear in the accounts.
The sponsorship deals are over a fixed periods of time and will be the same as last year.
Gate receipts will be pretty much the same.
Prize money from the league and europa league is predictable.
Unless someone has decided to buy a few million away kits or something, its all very predicable.

Didn't the Underarmour deal only start this season so it won't be recognised in the accountants yet?

 

[Gazza Dazzla]

Re: **Official Other Games Thread, Season 2012/13**

At the end of the day, what counts is the result. One champions league tour since hes the chairman is very very poor. That has to be blamed on a poor choice of managers and poor investments. I cant say much more than that.

There's only 4 places up for grabs, who out of Utd, Arsenal, City, Chelsea and Liverpool do you think we should have been finishing above on a regular basis? Bare in mind when Levy took over we were pretty much in the position Villa are in now.

Think I asked the question last month when the Levy criticism came up but wasn't answered then, because to me your line of criticism seems completely non sensical.

 

[ArcspacE]

Re: **Official Other Games Thread, Season 2012/13**

I thought i might have gotten lost, so i added an edit before you replied. Sorry. :-"

Braineclipse seems to have constructed a very context-specific scenario as to why we didn't sign Moutinho - simply made reference that is pure speculation and cannot (objectively speaking) form the basis for any reasonable debate other than mud-slinging based on your outlook. Let's rather asses on what he did than what he didn't do

 

[Robspur12]

Re: **Official Other Games Thread, Season 2012/13**

At the end of the day, what counts is the result. One champions league tour since hes the chairman is very very poor. That has to be blamed on a poor choice of managers and poor investments. I cant say much more than that.

Bit unfair to conclude Levy has been brick on the basis of champions leagues alone. How many have those other "big clubs" had in his time such as Everton and Aston Villa? 2005/2006 would have been in Champions League but for Food poisoning on the last day, and last year as Chelscum fluked Champions league. So that should be 3 runs. Perhaps fans should remind themselves where Sugar left us.

 

[Spursalot]

Re: **Official Other Games Thread, Season 2012/13**

At the end of the day, what counts is the result. One champions league tour since hes the chairman is very very poor. That has to be blamed on a poor choice of managers and poor investments. I cant say much more than that.

How badly must the chairmen be doing at the other 15 (?) clubs in the PL that haven't had CL in the past ten years?

 

[billyiddo]

Re: **Official Other Games Thread, Season 2012/13**

At the end of the day, what counts is the result. One champions league tour since hes the chairman is very very poor. That has to be blamed on a poor choice of managers and poor investments. I cant say much more than that.

It's a wonder that with all these poor managerial appointments how we have mostly improved from each one to the next, steadily improving our standing as a premier league club at the same time.

One Champions League season is far away from being very very poor when you consider the established clubs or new money clubs that have resources that dwarf ours that we need to over take in order to qualify. Arsenal, the closest club to us in terms of finances have a wage bill 150% of ours. The fact we're in a position to be dissapointed at finishing below them speaks well of just how far we have come in his time here.

 

[ArcspacE]

Re: what has happened to the transfer section?

That is not what I suggested - simply made reference there is so much more to understanding our finances than reading that pdf

You Madrid jab is very weak - you need to up your game!

Do you have any proof to that claim btw - can well be considered libellous in many aspects

 

[Spursalot]

Re: **Official Other Games Thread, Season 2012/13**

Braineclipse seems to have constructed a very context-specific scenario as to why we didn't sign Moutinho - simply made reference that is pure speculation and cannot (objectively speaking) form the basis for any reasonable debate other than mud-slinging based on your outlook. Let's rather asses on what he did than what he didn't do

Ah right, fair enough. Sorry for the confusion. I can't really get involved as i haven't been reading his posts that thoroughly..

 

[braineclipse]

Re: **Official Other Games Thread, Season 2012/13**

Example of excuces? Well - the transitional season is a classic and you pushed it yet again. Is that your question?

How about looking at our players and managers for not being good enough - is that also a possible 'explanation' in your frame of reference?

Example of me acting like a politician, blaming everything on something outside the club.

Good enough for what exactly?

Are you really asking me that if we don't reach our goals if our players or our manager isn't good enough might be an explanation for that?

If so, yes. But once again, what's your point? This seems pretty obvious.

It seems to me that we're doing quite well. 65 points after 35 games is our best total at this point of a season ever in the PL era I think I read in a thread here.

You don't think this has been a transitional season? If not, same question to you as to the previous poster. What has been a better example of a transitional season (somewhat recently). If it has in fact been a transitional season what is so wrong about describing the season as such, or even to use that to explain some of the things we've seen this season?

Are you the self-appointed Levy paladin who decides what is 'nonsensical' and 'ignorant', jimmy?

Jimmy is obviously the one who decides what Jimmy thinks is nonsensical and ignorant. Has he tried to make the claim that he's making that decision on the behalf of others?

We did sign those players - which means whatever mode of finance was available was 'available'.

Are you disputing that?

Once again, rhetorical? Am I supposed to dispute that the finance option we used to sign a player was available to us? How could I? How dumb must I be to do such a thing?

If it was in fact a rhetorical question, in the future feel free to just write your actual point in the same post as your rhetorical question.

My point is that you get a much better idea of how much money the club has had available to spend in addition to what has been spent by looking at the financial reports or the analysis of the financial reports than you get from looking at the net spend on some site like transfermarkt.

 

[Spursalot]

Re: what has happened to the transfer section?

That is not what I suggested - simply made reference there is so much more to understanding our finances than reading that pdf

You Madrid jab is very weak - you need to up your game!

Do you have any proof to that claim btw - can well be considered libellous in many aspects

What do you think that is not included?