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Putin & Russia
- Thread starter Rorschach
- Start date
braineclipse
Willie Hall
Badly planned and underestimating the response and defence of Ukraine seems to be the concensus I've seen too. Just think leaving a massive convoy open to direct effective attacks would be a level or two above in terms of incompetence.
Advantage switching to Ukraine also seems somewhat likely by what I've seen, particularly in urban areas. Perhaps Russia won't engage in that as much, but prefer to attack from distance? Not sure they can achieve their aims like that though.
What Putin wants is at best speculative at this point.
Peace talks, sure, but will they reach an actual peace? How much would Ukraine be willing to give up? How much would Putin demand? The difference between the two is key to peace talks, at the moment I guess they would be very far apart.
Direct street to street urban warfare may be something Putin wants to avoid, but as you say he strenthens his hand in negotiations by controlling more. Can he get to the point where Ukraine will give up what he will need to accept peace without controlling cities?
Putin perhaps needs a fairly quick resolution, but he also needs a resolution he can see/sell as a win. I've read nothing to indicate that Ukraine are anywhere near a position where they would give him either.
Can Putin have his troops terror bomb the cities ad nauseum and just park his troops at a safe distance? Would be close to as brutal and devastating as urban warfare. Would imo probably be a war crime (who cares though). But as we've seen repeatedly terror bombing often just strengthens morale of the side being attacked rather than weakening it.
I struggle to see a quick resolution. Would like to be wrong on that of course.
monkeybarry
Jack Jull
Relax?!
You threaten to tinkle off the OMT GHod's and you want to relax?!
braineclipse
Willie Hall
His narrative is that he's attacking nazis. Laughable as that narrative is, can he then accept peace without regime change?
His narrative is also that this is a preemptive strike because of Ukrainian military force and their alignment with the west. Can he accept peace without a demilitarised Ukraine and ratified agreements about no NATO membership at any point?
Then there's the contested areas.
I struggle to see any of those as acceptable to Ukraine any time soon.
If not soon, if time actually starts working to the benefit of Ukraine... Their willingness to give up anything won't exactly strengthen.
Rorschach
Sonny Walters
I wouldn't agree with that. He sees Belarus and Ukraine as part of greater Russia (or a least most of Ukraine depending on which map he has been reading lately. Maybe this one.).
Whenever you think he'll stop, he won't. His minimum goal is to rule Ukraine by proxy as he is doing in Belarus with Lukashenko.
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Gazza Dazzla
Chris Perry
Yes but for the talk of the army outrunning logistics, none of them out run them to the west?
I am no expert, but it seems that his plan is to take half the country up to the river, a new Berlin Wall type situation may suits his philosophy as well.
Gutter Boy
Tim Sherwood
More importantly, what is Rebrov's strike rate with a second hand Finnish rifle.
Danishfurniturelover
the prettiest spice girl
Yep many times if people brought up history of the second world War period they got told they were going about the past or something that I believe was called Godwins law.
Think you might have missed the point of godwins law. It states that if a debate goes on long enough, no matter the subject. At some point one poster would claim a comparison between the subject and hitler and the holocaust. Good example was having to wear masks. Idiots compared it to the holocaust even though there was no comparison to be made.
Can putins actions be compared? Not unless he starts ethnic cleansing/genocide (lets hope he doesn't).
The point godwin was making is that people should think first.
On one hand i applaud the eu for this. On the other i am horrified. Yes they are the victim in this but outside this conflict they have many crimes and human rights abuses to answer for. It is also one of the most corrupt nations on earth.
https://www.amnesty.org/en/location/europe-and-central-asia/ukraine/report-ukraine/
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_in_Ukraine
braineclipse
Willie Hall
What exactly in this response from the EU horrifies you?
What would have been a response, at this time, from the EU that would be more suitable in your opinion?
Gutter Boy
Tim Sherwood
The EU Parliament doesn't have any power, so that's just a token gesture at the moment. The Council (the nation states) will like have more "oh, hang on, what about"
Rorschach
Sonny Walters
But trending the right way for many years now. Yes, there may be a large amount of symbolism to this offer from the EU, and no little amount of turning a blind eye to past indiscretions, but this is the correct action at the correct moment.
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ricky2tricky4city
Tom Huddlestone
I see Lomachenko and Usyk have joined the ranks...Russia better hope they don't end up in any hand to hand combat.
Gazza Dazzla
Chris Perry
I heard on the BBC that the Germans and Dutch have already said that the EU needs to be careful what it promises to Ukraine. It’s a long way from a done deal unfortunately.
That one of the most corrupted countries on the planet with known human rights violitions on it's own citizens, is will be a member of the eu. It opens the door to others to join too. You already have orban influencing eu decisions while flouting their rules. Believe that this will lead to a lessening of values in the eu and that is a bad thing for the world.
Cutting trade with russia while accepting ukrainian refugees may have been better. But as i said i do applaud the eu for this. Just fear it might be a mistake.
Baleforce
Arthur Rowe
Well we are in it too.
Corruption and human rights violations have been our hobby for hundreds of years.
It’s easier to bring about change with them inside the tent I think.
Make membership conditional on the changes, and the benefits become something real that they would then worry about losing.