Putin & Russia

[braineclipse]

Too late now but should have let Putin have his buffer zone with clear conditions.

Should be fighting world hunger or saving the environment more than political ideals. Let Russia deal with ex soviet States. How,
much direct involvement should there be from "the west"?

Won't be surprised if we see another Cuban missile crisis event after the dust has settled with Ukraine.

Let Russia "deal with" ex Soviet states...

Putin has shown what that entails. Even with considerable resistance from the west even before this invasion.

Never mind what the people in these countries want. Never mind their sovereignty or their freedom to make their own foreign policy decisions.

Let Putin do as he pleases with the democratic processes and people of these countries.

Let's not even try to uphold principles of sovereignty for these nations. Good luck to them. Suffer quietly if you can.

 

[braineclipse]

40 mile convoy of Russian troops and artillery making its way through Ukraine now, it’s difficult to fathom that! Pretty scary as well.

Definitely further scaling up the attack. Failing at blitz, but progressing. Hopefully the time has given Ukraine the chance to defend themselves better.

This will almost certainly continue to be brutal and get even worse. Several reports of cluster munitions being used in civilian areas. Likely to see furter way crimes.

Can only continue to applaud Ukrainian bravery and resilience and hope they get more military hardware quickly to defend themselves as effectively as possible.

 

[Robbo]

Too late now but should have let Putin have his buffer zone with clear conditions.

Should be fighting world hunger or saving the environment more than political ideals. Let Russia deal with ex soviet States. How,
much direct involvement should there be from "the west"?

Won't be surprised if we see another Cuban missile crisis event after the dust has settled with Ukraine.

That's just an absurd statement. You make it sound as if this is an internal matter for the Russians to sort out. It simply isn't.

Ukraine is a sovereign state - a European country (Kiev is closer to London than Athens) - and Russia has invaded it. Russia is attacking - bombing - another independent nation. They are the aggressors. Putin might be provoked by how Ukraine have embraced democracy and freedom, but that does not entitle him to engage a full scale, military attack on an independent nation.

 

[JerusalemMan]

Russia have been doing it/getting away with it in Europe - Moldova (Transnistria), Georgia (South Ossetia and Abkhazia) and Armenia (Nagorno-Karabakh) - for two decades.

Yes.
But this one is higher profile and much larger.

The material interests/resources within Ukraine are significantly greater as well. Vested interests from many areas will inform a stronger response.

 

[Bullet]

That's just an absurd statement. You make it sound as if this is an internal matter for the Russians to sort out. It simply isn't.

Ukraine is a sovereign state - a European country (Kiev is closer to London than Athens) - and Russia has invaded it. Russia is attacking - bombing - another independent nation. They are the aggressors. Putin might be provoked by how Ukraine have embraced democracy and freedom, but that does not entitle him to engage a full scale, military attack on an independent nation.

Not sure what Athens has to do with it but I was interested enough to look on Google maps
By road
Kiev to London 1500m
Kiev to Athens 2000m
Kiev to Moscow 900m
Kiev to St Petersburg 1200m

 

[Rorschach]

40 mile convoy of Russian troops and artillery making its way through Ukraine now, it’s difficult to fathom that! Pretty scary as well.

More than one military head has said with the right hardware this convoy could be easily stopped and it is tactical madness. I guess Ukraine doesn't have the right hardware but surely they can blow the road to bits for a few miles (or maybe they did already!!).

 

[Bullet]

Agreed, they must be sitting ducks for artillery / planes / traps / mines? A well equipped army could decimate them, you would think. I hope we and EU are doing all we can to assist.

 

[glasgowspur]

A couple of these and the convoy is redundant

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fairchild_Republic_A-10_Thunderbolt_II

 

[braineclipse]

More than one military head has said with the right hardware this convoy could be easily stopped and it is tactical madness. I guess Ukraine doesn't have the right hardware but surely they can blow the road to bits for a few miles (or maybe they did already!!).

Hope it's tactical madness. I'm no military strategist, but would assume Russia have decent information about the capabilities of the Ukrainian military. Advancing in a column like this only if that's safe...

Street fighting will be nasy. Perhaps the Russians think shells and rockets will do the job for them, but nothing to indicate that's actually true.

 

[Gazza Dazzla]

More than one military head has said with the right hardware this convoy could be easily stopped and it is tactical madness. I guess Ukraine doesn't have the right hardware but surely they can blow the road to bits for a few miles (or maybe they did already!!).

Yep exactly what I thought, ripe for an aerial bombardment!

 

[Lilbaz]

Amid this human tragedy and horror. Nobody has mentioned the most important thing. Do zenit st petersburg, spartak moscow or dynamo kiev have a decent striker that spurs can get on the cheap?

 

[monkeybarry]

Russia have been doing it/getting away with it in Europe - Moldova (Transnistria), Georgia (South Ossetia and Abkhazia) and Armenia (Nagorno-Karabakh) - for two decades.

The difference with all of those is that they are seperatist areas.
That's why they could justify Crimea, Luhansk and Donetsk.
But as soon as you attack or enter somewhere that has no interest in you being there the game completely changes.

 

[monkeybarry]

Yep exactly what I thought, ripe for an aerial bombardment!

Ripe for a Putin justification to ramp things up.

He is just goading the West.

He's saying "I'll do what I like - what are you going to do about it?. Nothing. Thought so. But if you want to - I need TP for my bunghole. Oh btw, remember I have nukes.

In the meantime, I'll just keep bombing this place. I'll either have it back for Russia or make it a pile of rubble. Either way, you can't have it. Unless you attack of course....."

 

[Rorschach]

Hope it's tactical madness. I'm no military strategist, but would assume Russia have decent information about the capabilities of the Ukrainian military. Advancing in a column like this only if that's safe...

Street fighting will be nasy. Perhaps the Russians think shells and rockets will do the job for them, but nothing to indicate that's actually true.

You would think, but some of these same military strategists have pointed out other huge blunders in tactics throughout the last 5 days. A consensus is forming that this is a very badly planned operation. It just seems like they are trying to brute force it.

The advantage will switch to Ukraine if it becomes urban war, according to this guy John Spencer (Chair of Urban Warfare Studies)

Anyway, a complete fudging mess. The best way out of this is for someone to off Putin.

 

[monkeybarry]

Amid this human tragedy and horror. Nobody has mentioned the most important thing. Do zenit st petersburg, spartak moscow or dynamo kiev have a decent striker that spurs can get on the cheap?

No football in random dude. You know the rules.

 

[Lilbaz]

You would think, but some of these same military strategists have pointed out other huge blunders in tactics throughout the last 5 days. A consensus is forming that this is a very badly planned operation. It just seems like they are trying to brute force it.

The advantage will switch to Ukraine if it becomes urban war, according to this guy John Spencer (Chair of Urban Warfare Studies)

Anyway, a complete fudging mess. The best way out of this is for someone to off Putin.

Doubt it will really come to urban warfare. The areas he wants to keep are largely pro russian. Peace talks will come soon.

 

[Lilbaz]

No football in random dude. You know the rules.

Relax if you couldn't tell it was tongue in cheek. Was just listening to talksport and 14 brazilian players have had to be evacuated from the country. Was just thinking what do they do now?
Yes it's football but so is talk about fifa etc... and how they are dealing with this.

 

[Rorschach]

Doubt it will really come to urban warfare. The areas he wants to keep are largely pro russian. Peace talks will come soon.

Well I don't know if it will come to urban warfare but Putin wants to keep the lot. Not just to areas close to Russia, which he is also bombing the brick out of incidentally.

 

[Lilbaz]

Well I don't know if it will come to urban warfare but Putin wants to keep the lot. Not just to areas close to Russia, which he is also bombing the brick out of incidentally.

He doesn't want to keep the lot. His hand is strengthened in negotiations if he controls of large parts.

 

[JerusalemMan]

He doesn't want to keep the lot. His hand is strengthened in negotiations if he controls of large parts.

Well, I'm sure he'd like to have the whole country, but it's probably not a disaster from his perspective if this eventually ends up with a withdrawal from Ukraine but retention of the 'contested areas'.
After much bullying behaviour and heated negotiations.