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Putin & Russia

Danishfurniturelover said:
:rolleyes:

The fact is the German, Dutch and Italians have been called out for not punishing the Russians. So do not deflect are they wrong to do that?
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You need to add Hungary and Cyprus to that.

As with any war based decision, there is always a tough choice between the impact on your own country Vs the impact on "far away". It's a lose-lose decision.

I think cutting off Swyft access is inevitable - but you can understand some countries buying a bit of time to minimise the impact of them. Russia has a lot of influence over everyday life.
 
Lilbaz said:
My bad. Thought you said what would nato do if ukraine joined russia.

If ukraine joined nato, the us would tighten the screws on russia. Probably build a base or two there.
They'd have them over a barrell. They'd do pretty much they want in the rest of the world. They're already cutting off china.
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Sorry, you're still not clarifying anything anyone in NATO would do to Russia.

What would NATO do that actually does anything to Russia?
 
scaramanga said:
Sorry, you're still not clarifying anything anyone in NATO would do to Russia.

What would NATO do that actually does anything to Russia?
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It would prevent Russia from invading them (again). There are some other reasons, valid and made up, but ultimately I think that's a big part of it. Putin always wanted to integrate Ukraine in Russia. NATO membership would prevent that. So doesn't want it.
 
monkeybarry said:
You need to add Hungary and Cyprus to that.

As with any war based decision, there is always a tough choice between the impact on your own country Vs the impact on "far away". It's a lose-lose decision.

I think cutting off Swyft access is inevitable - but you can understand some countries buying a bit of time to minimise the impact of them. Russia has a lot of influence over everyday life.
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Defending your comrades? :D
 
scaramanga said:
Sorry, you're still not clarifying anything anyone in NATO would do to Russia.

What would NATO do that actually does anything to Russia?
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As an organisation? Nothing, unless they all decided to "incorporate" Russia.
As an entity that provides footholds for US missiles, troops etc. it is perceived as a threat to Russia's security if they allowed Ukraine to join.
(Yet again, refer back to Cuba for reactions between US & Russia)

But, you know all this already and are playing with words for the "What would NATO do" aspect :)
 
braineclipse said:
It would prevent Russia from invading them (again). There are some other reasons, valid and made up, but ultimately I think that's a big part of it. Putin always wanted to integrate Ukraine in Russia. NATO membership would prevent that. So doesn't want it.
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Absolutely.

So threatening that defending Ukraine would have escalated violence is entirely empty. The violence was happening anyway.
 
Trixster said:
As an organisation? Nothing, unless they all decided to "incorporate" Russia.
As an entity that provides footholds for US missiles, troops etc. it is perceived as a threat to Russia's security if they allowed Ukraine to join.
(Yet again, refer back to Cuba for reactions between US & Russia)

But, you know all this already and are playing with words for the "What would NATO do" aspect :)
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So "Perceived as a threat" but not actually doing anything whatsoever to even inconvenience Russia, let alone harm it.
 
scaramanga said:
NATO doesn't really do much of anything other than be a mutual defence treaty so that doesn't matter much.
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America invaded afghanistan, iraq to protect their country. They've overthrown governments and destroyed economies in south america. Their idea of defense is to destroy anyone that can be a possible threat. Even economically.
 
Danishfurniturelover said:
:rolleyes:

The fact is the German, Dutch and Italians have been called out for not punishing the Russians. So do not deflect are they wrong to do that?
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Im not criticising anyone here. More ridiculing the English establishment who are quick to get in bed with money, and ask questions later. We do it with unique and brilliant aplomb. No wonder London has been a go to for laundering money from Russia, the Italian Mafia and many other sources. We’ve always been open to heaps of cash and anyone who wishes to access our respected and distinguished establishment/services. It’s why the UK is such a centre for offshore dealings.
 
Lilbaz said:
America invaded afghanistan, iraq to protect their country. They've overthrown governments and destroyed economies in south america. Their idea of defense is to destroy anyone that can be a possible threat. Even economically.
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So what were they going to do to Russia?
 
I can't get over some of the bravery I am reading about. There are some exceptional Ukrainians coming to the fore. I would include Zelensky on this list. His bravery in the face of what is going on is frankly incredible IMO. Many would have cut and run at this point but he is there in Kyiv on the front lines. He must know he will be caught and probably killed but still, he remains. Heros are made, as they say.
I read some other unbelievable stories of bravery today also. There was one amazing story of a soldier who manually set off landmines on a bridge to halt an oncoming Russian convoy killing himself in the process. And I'll certainly be toasting the 13 souls who told the Russian warship to go fudge itself.
 
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