Politics, politics, politics

[K.D.D.D.D.Soc]

A) If I was paying painters and decorators I would ensure the work started, but the government aren't spending their money they're spending my money so they can tinkle it up the wall with impunity and be relaxed with an open time limit.
B) The type of organized abuse that has been carried on in institutions can only carry on with a blind eye being turn by people in authority.
C) The victims of this abuse are usually vulnerable kids from broken familes or lacking support from their relatives and come from lower income areas, which I may have wrongly assume you consider to be riff raff

 

[glasgowspur]

Yes plenty.

There are a lot of right wing commentators, politicians and supporters on both. Facebook in particular has played a very significant role in building and maintaining support for both Brexit and Trump.

This article covers my original point about how Facebook can be a news bubble that only shows you news that supports your preconceptions and how this might have influenced recent elections

https://www.buzzfeed.com/ryanhatesthis/the-far-right-is-a-meme

Is it not a bit of a stretch to call ukip far right?
Scanning through their related links from that article and its all trump bashing, ok he probably deserves most of it, but a news outlet moaning about links on fb only representing one side of an argument then doing the same just seems like hypocrisy.
Im not a trump supporter but its getting real annoying listening to everyone in the media falling over themselves to kick him.
He won, get over it.

 

[parklane1]

Is it not a bit of a stretch to call ukip far right?
Scanning through their related links from that article and its all trump bashing, ok he probably deserves most of it, but a news outlet moaning about links on fb only representing one side of an argument then doing the same just seems like hypocrisy.
Im not a trump supporter but its getting real annoying listening to everyone in the media falling over themselves to kick him.
He won, get over it.

You are joking, there are still some who can not get over the fact that a majority voted for Brexit.

 

[milo]

Is it not a bit of a stretch to call ukip far right?
Scanning through their related links from that article and its all trump bashing, ok he probably deserves most of it, but a news outlet moaning about links on fb only representing one side of an argument then doing the same just seems like hypocrisy.
Im not a trump supporter but its getting real annoying listening to everyone in the media falling over themselves to kick him.
He won, get over it.

I think that the article lost its way in the middle. What is interesting is how tailored news feeds are impacting on people, especially when such high numbers of people are only getting news through Facebook.

A big wish for 2017 is that we retire "x won, get over it". If you don't want to discuss why things happen or the outcome, don't get involved in discussions on them.

 

[milo]

I don't think anyone has brokered a trade deal where there's a perfectly sufficient, working and optimal one already in place. I'm fairly sure nobody has ever added tariffs to an existing free trade deal because doing so is such a patently stupid idea.

I also don't think that freedom of movement is as sacrosanct as you believe. In Germany, the suggestion that we could buy access to the free market by continuing our current financial contributions in lieu of free movement is a popular one.

I'm not aware of one being negotiated where the starting position is removing access rather than gaining it.

We are not going to get a better deal by leaving than we had whilst a member. The difficulty will be in limiting the damage on both sides.

 

[glasgowspur]

I think that the article lost its way in the middle. What is interesting is how tailored news feeds are impacting on people, especially when such high numbers of people are only getting news through Facebook.

A big wish for 2017 is that we retire "x won, get over it". If you don't want to discuss why things happen or the outcome, don't get involved in discussions on them.

It's not a discussion though, it's a slagging match.
There's very few articles that can't help not having a cheap digs at trump or brexit, maybe if they had constructed decent arguments and not spent the time and money scaring and patronising voters they would have won.
I vote remain and wouldn't have voted for Trump, but it's done and we need to get on with it and make the best of it, not moan and Blame everyone else.

 

[milo]

Why not use CETA as a starting point, then tweak a few things?

There was talk a few weeks ago that the Canadians were already advising us around that.

Because our economies are fundamentally different, Canada does not export 45% of its goods to the EU, it has not been heavily aligned with the EU for the last 40 years with an ever more integrated supply chain and geography means that our relationship will always be different.

 

[milo]

It's not a discussion though, it's a slagging match.
There's very few articles that can't help not having a cheap digs at trump or brexit, maybe if they had constructed decent arguments and not spent the time and money scaring and patronising voters they would have won.
I vote remain and wouldn't have voted for Trump, but it's done and we need to get on with it and make the best of it, not moan and Blame everyone else.

I'm interested in why things happen and what happens going forward. I think having a joke is good but am not much interested in a slagging match.

I think that people receiving most of their news through Facebook is a fundamental change from what has happened before. It may turn out to mean nothing, it may not but I find it interesting. That's the reason why I posted the article.

 

[scaramanga]

I'm not aware of one being negotiated where the starting position is removing access rather than gaining it.

We are not going to get a better deal by leaving than we had whilst a member. The difficulty will be in limiting the damage on both sides.

The trick is getting a position that EU governments can sell as worse to their voters.

For example, we stop paying in to the EU, we no longer have access to ECB financial guarantees or funding for our farmers to not work. In EU land, that's a bad thing. In the sane world, it's a good thing.

We get a better deal, they can sell it as a worse one and everyone is happy. The alternative is that the EU agrees that paying in to their scheme is a bad thing and the whole thing falls apart.

 

[milo]

The trick is getting a position that EU governments can sell as worse to their voters.

For example, we stop paying in to the EU, we no longer have access to ECB financial guarantees or funding for our farmers to not work. In EU land, that's a bad thing. In the sane world, it's a good thing.

We get a better deal, they can sell it as a worse one and everyone is happy. The alternative is that the EU agrees that paying in to their scheme is a bad thing and the whole thing falls apart.

I think that you fundamentally misunderstand how this is viewed in Europe and how weak our hand is.

 

[scaramanga]

I think that you fundamentally misunderstand how this is viewed in Europe and how weak our hand is.

If the rest of the EU also considers paying in subs and getting nothing back better (unless you're Greece), then the whole thing would have fallen apart by now.

Had they brought in everything the EU currently is at once in the first place, they could possibly argue that all pillars are inextricably linked and interdependent. That's clearly not the case though, so they have to pretend to themselves and each other that full membership is in some way beneficial and not an economic hindrance.

The EU cannot admit that leaving all but the free trade is beneficial, as it is trying to prop up a house of cards that relies on the belief that we're all better off together. That puts them in a very difficult negotiating position. If they make it clear that leaving all but the free trade is better for a country then everyone will want to do it.

 

[parklane1]

I think that the article lost its way in the middle. What is interesting is how tailored news feeds are impacting on people, especially when such high numbers of people are only getting news through Facebook.

A big wish for 2017 is that we retire "x won, get over it". If you don't want to discuss why things happen or the outcome, don't get involved in discussions on them.

We KNOW why things happen, its because people were sick to death of the status Quo. Its those that can not/will not accept it that is the problem and can not " get over it".

 

[glasgowspur]

We milo, as in you and I, are not having a slagging match, but the media and the disaffected voters, ie the losers, are.
Instead of saying well why did we lose and how can make sure don't lose again they are ridiculing any one who isn't them.
Should brexit or trump fail standing there acting the smart arses saying,we told you so isn't going to help anyone.
They are wasting they're energies being smug and outraged instead of trying to find out why they lost.

 

[milo]

We KNOW why things happen, its because people were sick to death of the status Quo. Its those that can not/will not accept it that is the problem and can not " get over it".

I think that it is more complex than that. I accept that there is a dissatisfaction with how things are but both votes are likely to result in more of a lot of the things that people are sick of.

Discussing how social media affects people's perception of the news has nothing to do with sour grapes and everything to do with understanding the current political landscape.

What also fascinates me is that the people shouting "get over it" loudest often have the least ideas of where we go to from here.

 

[milo]

We milo, as in you and I, are not having a slagging match, but the media and the disaffected voters, ie the losers, are.
Instead of saying well why did we lose and how can make sure don't lose again they are ridiculing any one who isn't them.
Should brexit or trump fail standing there acting the smart arses saying,we told you so isn't going to help anyone.
They are wasting they're energies being smug and outraged instead of trying to find out why they lost.

I've got no beef with you and I am sorry if it appears that I do.

I agree with you that the Buzzfeed article got bogged down and lost its way but I think that the premise of how Facebook curates news is interesting. If it is true that 50% of Americans use Facebook as their primary news source, then that would be a massive change within a couple of elections where broadcast news was their major source.

I also think that the impact of the right-wing troll groups from 4chan and Reddit is fascinating. Not to mention that we have had a US election where the Kremlin in cahoots with Wikileaks have been hacking and releasing information to influence the result.

Regardless of whether you are pleased or displeased with the outcome, this is seismic.

 

[milo]

 

[parklane1]

What also fascinates me is that the people shouting "get over it" loudest often have the least ideas of where we go to from here.

There is no point as those who " can not get over it" are still trying to tell those who voted the opposite to them that they are racist, little englander etc etc ( now i would not say you are one of them) but there are many who do/have

Bemoaning the result which many are still doing is not getting anyone anywhere and we are unlikely to be able to do so until those who can ' not get over it" start thinking forward instead of looking back. Its done.

 

[milo]

There is no point as those who " can not get over it" are still trying to tell those who voted the opposite to them that they are racist, little englander etc etc ( now i would not say you are one of them) but there are many who do/have

Bemoaning the result which many are still doing is not getting anyone anywhere and we are unlikely to be able to do so until those who can ' not get over it" start thinking forward instead of looking back. Its done.

Please can you point me to a single post in this thread accusing you of being a racist. If you cannot find one, I suggest that you "get over it".

I accept that the country has voted to leave the EU. What I have not heard from anyone in the leave camp is a coherent argument of where we should go after that.

Is it any surprise that the vacuum of leadership and direction from the leave campaign has been filled by people who supported remain asking what the hell we are meant to do now?

 

[glorygloryeze]

Obviously your interpretation of "it's currently in the process" and mine differ, telling my missus I'm looking at paint charts isn't re-decorating the house. The government are probably hoping it can stubble from one setback to an other and give offenders enough time to cover their tracks or die, perhaps the press can pick some easy targets like 60/70's dj's and tv personalities so that major politicians, civil servants and police officers can sleep safely with their inflation proof pensions. I know it shouldn't matter as a lot of these kids were or are riff raff.

Scarily difficult to argue with this....

 

[parklane1]

Please can you point me to a single post in this thread accusing you of being a racist. If you cannot find one, I suggest that you "get over it".

I accept that the country has voted to leave the EU. What I have not heard from anyone in the leave camp is a coherent argument of where we should go after that.

Is it any surprise that the vacuum of leadership and direction from the leave campaign has been filled by people who supported remain asking what the hell we are meant to do now?

Now you know better then that Milo, no one on this site has called a particular member a racist . We play fair so for you to suggest i trawl through this thread looking for it is a waste of my time.

However are you actually saying that the word racist has not been used in this thread and directed to those who voted out? because if you are then i am gobsmacked.