Politics, politics, politics

[Gutter Boy]

Wow I never thought there was a conceivable way either Boris or Gove and certainly not UKIP could be described as Liberal! Suppose there is a first time for everything.

Johnson and Gove are very liberal (as were Cameron and Osborne). As in classic liberals. Small state, free trade. Not interventionist like Labour or May Tory

 

[StephenH]

I know you did, and if i remember rightly you cast a lot of aspersions at the time on those that did vote out.

Still do! But at least the 'stop immigration' brethren had a logical reason, although I doubt leaving the EU achieve what they want either.

It's the sovereignty reasoning that I find the most difficult to fathom, but hey, I just did not want prices to go up!

 

[Baleforce]

60% of our trade is with the rest of the world. By leaving a protectionist stagnating regional trading block, we can negotiate much better terms with more dynamic and upwardly mobile countries. Renegotiation some new arrangement with the EU (soft or hard) should be very much secondary to negotiations with the rising economic superpowers.

but where do we get all the skilled workers that make this possible, where does the funding come from to initiate such enterprise?

the markets are already showing their concern, and property development projects across London are being paused

 

[milo]

Petulant? you voted remain ( as i thought) and that explains your posts above. Nothing i say will stop you from being a sore loser so what is the point.

Play nice @parklane1. Discuss the subject and less of the personal digs please.

 

[glorygloryeze]

Sadly for the vast majority, and maybe not yourself, it was about immigration. Nothing more nothing less.

Many wanted to make Britain Great again, a lot will be dead before we ever leave the EU.

I think immigration would have been a high issue for some, but i think for most it was multifaceted thing (sovereignty of government/legal system, fairness of common agricultural/fishing policies, ability to control levels of immigration if/when necessary, fear of becoming just a region due to economic and/or political union in future).

If the elected leaders think it was all just about immigration then they will never truly understand how Brexit happened

 

[StephenH]

Play nice @parklane1. Discuss the subject and less of the personal digs please.

Its an age thing

 

[glorygloryeze]

I have to agree with @milo and @monkeybarry
I voted for Brexit, like @parklane1 but i think @parklane1 you do yourself no favours when you are constantly throwing the usual "sore loser" punchlines when discussing Brexit.

If you don't want to discuss it, that's fine. But don't cheapen any discussion about it the way you usually do with such digs

 

[parklane1]

Play nice @parklane1. Discuss the subject and less of the personal digs please.

Which was what i was doing until being called petulant, is that not name calling or did you miss that one?

 

[StephenH]

I think immigration would have been a high issue for some, but i think for most it was multifaceted thing (sovereignty of government/legal system, fairness of common agricultural/fishing policies, ability to control levels of immigration if/when necessary, fear of becoming just a region due to economic and/or political union in future).

If the elected leaders think it was all just about immigration then they will never truly understand how Brexit happened

They 'the Brexiteers' used immigration to pull this country out of the EU. It worked and here we are......5p on a litre of petrol by the end of the month and that's just for starters.

 

[parklane1]

I think immigration would have been a high issue for some, but i think for most it was multifaceted thing (sovereignty of government/legal system, fairness of common agricultural/fishing policies, ability to control levels of immigration if/when necessary, fear of becoming just a region due to economic and/or political union in future).

If the elected leaders think it was all just about immigration then they will never truly understand how Brexit happened

I am not sure the elected leaders think it was/is, but i have heard a lot from the public who think it was ( wrongly imo).

 

[milo]

60% of our trade is with the rest of the world. By leaving a protectionist stagnating regional trading block, we can negotiate much better terms with more dynamic and upwardly mobile countries. Renegotiation some new arrangement with the EU (soft or hard) should be very much secondary to negotiations with the rising economic superpowers.

You won't be able to get agreements with the rest of the world in place until you have an agreement with the EU first. The amount of market access that we have to the EU and the terms that it will be on will be a key component of any trade treaty with the rest of the world.

I also think that it is fanciful to suggest a country of 60m will have more clout in negotiations than a trading block of 500m. The likelihood is that any large country will demand more access to our markets, undermining British business, as part of any deal and we are not going to have much choice other than accept it or walk away.

This Tweet became famous because of Carswell's failure to understand basic science but the original point on trade and distance is worth revisiting

https://twitter.com/x/status/777606759049469953

 

[monkeybarry]

Which was what i was doing until being called petulant, is that not name calling or did you miss that one?

Genuinely, have a look back mate - you started with proclamations of idiocy whilst not addressing any sensible points that were being made. Which seems unlike you.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app

 

[glorygloryeze]

They 'the Brexiteers' used immigration to pull this country out of the EU. It worked and here we are......5p on a litre of petrol by the end of the month and that's just for starters.

As i say immigration was one of the issues, perhaps the easiest to bring up and engage initial discussions.
But there have been anti-EU feeling long before immigration levels went up to new highs from around 2004.

 

[milo]

Which was what i was doing until being called petulant, is that not name calling or did you miss that one?

The petulant comment was in response to you making disparaging comments about how @monkeybarry voted rather than discussing the subject.

You've been around here long enough to know that we expect you to play the ball and not the man.

 

[parklane1]

Genuinely, have a look back mate - you started with proclamations of idiocy whilst not addressing any sensible points that were being made. Which seems unlike you.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app

I was refering to those on teletext who wanted to have another vote because the result was not what they wanted, as far as i know there were none on here who did that so i was not having a go at any on here. This site is far more rounded and usually better debate then most.

 

[monkeybarry]

The petulant comment was in response to you making disparaging comments about how @monkeybarry voted rather than discussing the subject.

You've been around here long enough to know that we expect you to play the ball and not the man.

Anyway, for what it's worth, maybe we should draw a line under - we've all been a bit OTT at times these past 6 months. I know I certainly have.

@parklane1
That said, I would like you to go back and address my points though as I feel I. They are valid and II. I'm interested in any alternative/counter views, as @gutterboy provided

Sent from my Nexus 5X using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app

 

[parklane1]

The petulant comment was in response to you making disparaging comments about how @monkeybarry voted rather than discussing the subject.

You've been around here long enough to know that we expect you to play the ball and not the man.

Your site your rules, but i disagree with what seems to that its seems to be all right for some but not others. However i will not get anywhere with that stance so i will withdraw from this for now as we have been there and done that with the whole debate before.

 

[monkeybarry]

I was refering to those on tacoter who wanted to have another vote because the result was not what they wanted, as far as i know there were none on here who did that so i was not having a go at any on here. This site is far more rounded and usually better debate then most.

Another referendum is a non starter (the first one was bad enough. Did you see the result?! ;-) )

My point has nothing to do with that and everything to do will a pragmatic and managed approach in line with our political make up.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app

 

[StephenH]

As i say immigration was one of the issues, perhaps the easiest to bring up and engage initial discussions.
But there have been anti-EU feeling long before immigration levels went up to new highs from around 2004.

I was far from pro EU, but I was made aware very early on of the high price to extracate ourselves, and IMHO it was not cost i found worth paying.
I still am not a Europhile by any means but could see the whole UKIP strategy being very divisive and so it proved and very successful sadly.

 

[glorygloryeze]

I was far from pro EU, but I was made aware very early on of the high price to extracate ourselves, and IMHO it was not cost i found worth paying.
I still am not a Europhile by any means but could see the whole UKIP strategy being very divisive and so it proved and very successful sadly.

That cost for many WAS worth paying for, and hence the vote. No matter what the vote there would have been some kind of 'divide' of sorts (depending on your point of view).
Tbh, i don't think one had to 'buy in' to UKIP's 'strategy' to vote for Brexit.