parklane1
Tony Galvin
You clearly did not want the leave side to win the ref but did so its no surprise that you think that way.
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Politics, politics, politics
- Thread starter markysimmo
- Start date
You clearly did not want the leave side to win the ref but did so its no surprise that you think that way.
milo
Jack L. Jones
Not at all. I think that the country made the wrong choice but I respect the decision. I think that the government has a mandate to renegotiate our relationship with Europe but I do not think that the referendum result gives us a clear idea of what type of relationship people want. Given that this is probably the most important decision that this generation will face and it will be difficult to go back on, we need to have that discussion now and try and find a national consensus.
parklane1
Tony Galvin
Fair enough if that is what you feel, however i wonder how many of the remain side would have wanted this discussion about what we would want on the table before going to the polls? i did not hear many voices asking for this before hand. The reason being that so many remain voters were so convinced that they would win, they lost and now they want this discussion.
Like i said earlier mate "Why does that not surprise me"
milo
Jack L. Jones
There were lots of calls during the campaign for the leave side to clearly state what type of relationship with Europe that they were proposing but they refused because they were trying to be all things to all people.
parklane1
Tony Galvin
Well i never heard a lot of those calls ( maybe you live among those that did), i have heard far, far, far more since the remain side lost the vote that many of them thought was a forgone decision, funny that they now all want another vote. Would it have been the right thing to have this discussion before the vote? maybe but as i say the remain side were so conceited that it would win it was not asked/ mentioned.
Anyway its pointless going around in circles about this ( again). We disagree and as i say it does not surprise me in the slightest.
milo
Jack L. Jones
Anyone looking at the opinion polls would have been foolish to think that the result was in the bag.
I don't think that this is a pointless discussion though. There are relationships that we could have with Europe outside the EU that would probably leave me a lot happier than you. I do not think that it will have been worth going through a divisive referendum campaign if there is still widespread dissatisfaction with our relationship with Europe. I do not see how we can go forward without that debate.
parklane1
Tony Galvin
You misunderstood me ( i think) i meant we/you/me are going round in circles because we obviously disagree with each other opinions( and have done since this started) and its a pointless exercise rehashing it all over again. As for fools thinking that the remain would win well i met a lot of fools in that case, including me because i said early doors they would.
I just thought that with all the scares stories coming out from the remain camp they would have made people scared of voting out ( thankfully they did not). However as i said its pointless going over all this again.
StephenH
David Ginola
Because they the outers are by age, xenophobia and in the main sadly poorly educated especially up north......
Grays_1890
Chris Jones
NOt really for the leave side to state. Cameron was PM and should have stated that case should leave win
milo
Jack L. Jones
I find it bizarre that leave supporters are trying to claim that the remain campaign should decide what form of leave we should have.
If Cameron had come out on 24th June and said that he would try and negotiate a Norway style agreement with free movement of people, the UK continuing to contribute similar amounts to the EU budget and us being bound by EU regulations, would you have been happy?
milo
Jack L. Jones
OK. Let's not go over that again but look to the future instead.
We have a scale of leave options from Norway to WTO. The negotiations are on barriers to trade and immigration controls. The more immigration controls we put in place, the more barriers to trade there will be. The more trade barriers there are, the bigger impact there will be on the economy. Where would you like to see us positioned on that scale?
Hotshot-Tottenham
Edgar Davids
Absolutely.
The onus was squarely on Leave to detail their plans should they win.
They stepped out into the road without looking.
monkeybarry
Jack Jull
Seriously?!
It was a regular theme in almost every debate from the public and remain campaigners.
What you didn't hear was any leave campaigners with any clue - either the politicians or the voters (I note it's still very quiet).
Yes, it got Faraged and Borised - but the bottom line is many of the 52% voted without a damn clue as to what their expectations were other than an Australian based points system.
Still waiting on that one......
(Won't hold my breath)
parklane1
Tony Galvin
Sorry mate that is rubbish and insulting for many who are not xenophobia, aged and live up north. That is probably the worst post i have read in here.
parklane1
Tony Galvin
Not sure if that should have been the case to be honest, but without a doubt he was as over confident about the result as a lot of remain voters were.
parklane1
Tony Galvin
Difficult to answer that 100% because i have no idea what will be decided. The problem that the majority ( that i have talked to and meet since) of those who voted remain is that they think that the majority who voted out must be xenophobia( which is pure rubbish and ignorant imo). Immigration is/has been good for this country and anyone who ignores that is stupid to be in control of it however there has to be a limit to the numbers.
We need to be in control of it not some arse hole sitting in power in their little kingdom, as long as we can do that then ( imo) i see no reason why we would have to be a closed shop all together.
StephenH
David Ginola
Doesn't make it wrong.
Most OAP's voted out as did the vast 'majority' of whites bourne in the UK below the national income level which is an awful lot of people.
My Step Dad did a show of hands on the vote at his club he goes to in Sussex, out of the 30 people there was the only one who was a stay, him.
All UKIP voters and all want the 'great' put back in Britain....bless.
I'm not calling you a xenophobia but most of our age group are, sadly.
I excepted it was going to be an out vote for about 6 months, shame Cameron was such a numpty he was the turkey who instigated the voted for christmas.
milo
Jack L. Jones
The obvious options are Norway which would have the least impact on the economy but immigration and our contribution to the EU budget would remain unchanged. The Norway option would give us full access to the EEA. The second option is a deal similar to Turkey which means that we would have a trading relationship with Europe without tariffs but that does not include the service/finance sector, in return we would have more (but not total control over immigration). Turkey has to align its laws with and abide by European law and is bound by the decisions of the European Court of Justice. The economic impact on the City and service sector would be significant and this is the largest part of our economy. The final option is WTO which would see tariffs placed on UK goods and no trade in finance/services. We would have control over immigration but the impact on the economy would be severe.
I have not seen anyone on here say that the majority of leave voters are xenophobic and I have not spoken to anyone in the real world who has said that either. Most remain voters I have spoken to are just disappointed that so many people were taken in by a campaign that was based on lies and did not set out what should happen if they won.
Glenda's Legs
Paul Walsh
Andrea 'I'm a mum' Leadsome, speaking from a Leave perspective, has already said that all the EU migrants currently here will be able to stay (and presumably that will have to include any others that move here in the next two years). Do you think most of those who voted Leave will be happy with that?