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Politics, politics, politics

milo said:
I find it bizarre that leave supporters are trying to claim that the remain campaign should decide what form of leave we should have.

If Cameron had come out on 24th June and said that he would try and negotiate a Norway style agreement with free movement of people, the UK continuing to contribute similar amounts to the EU budget and us being bound by EU regulations, would you have been happy?
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The point is the government and PM offered up the referendum so therefore he should have had a plan for both outcomes, he was still PM of the party that is governing the country. By offering the referendum leave was a 1 in 2 chance so for Cameron as PM of the country to only have a plan for a remain result is highly stupid.

Leave was campaigned by all sorts of people, people in no position of power of government what so ever so to talk like someone as part of leave supersedes the government is mental
 
StephenH said:
Doesn't make it wrong.

Most OAP's voted out as did the vast 'majority' of whites bourne in the UK below the national income level which is an awful lot of people.
My Step Dad did a show of hands on the vote at his club he goes to in Sussex, out of the 30 people there was the only one who was a stay, him.
All UKIP voters and all want the 'great' put back in Britain....bless.
I'm not calling you a xenophobia but most of our age group are, sadly.
I excepted it was going to be an out vote for about 6 months, shame Cameron was such a numpty he was the turkey who instigated the voted for christmas.
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Not in your eyes maybe but in mine it does. I have never heard so much rubbish and i am surprised to hear you say that.
 
Grays_1890 said:
The point is the government and PM offered up the referendum so therefore he should have had a plan for both outcomes, he was still PM of the party that is governing the country. By offering the referendum leave was a 1 in 2 chance so for Cameron as PM of the country to only have a plan for a remain result is highly stupid.

Leave was campaigned by all sorts of people, people in no position of power of government what so ever so to talk like someone as part of leave supersedes the government is mental
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How can the government be expected to plan for something that was not government policy and they had no control over the promises made by the leave campaign?

For the Scottish independence referendum the Scottish government issued a 670 page document setting out their plans for an independent Scotland and what it would look like a whole ten months before the vote. For the European referendum the leave campaign's manifesto was 16 pages long.

During the campaign leave tried to shut down any debate about the possible consequences of a leave vote by issuing personal attacks on anyone who made them and dismissing anything that did not support them 100% as project fear.

We are now paying the price for that approach to the campaign by all of the major leave players departing the field (no doubt to return and complain about outcome once it is settled) and no clear mandate for what happens next.
 
Glenda's Legs said:
Andrea 'I'm a mum' Leadsome, speaking from a Leave perspective, has already said that all the EU migrants currently here will be able to stay (and presumably that will have to include any others that move here in the next two years). Do you think most of those who voted Leave will be happy with that?
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Obviously i can not speak for all the 17 million voters who voted to leave, however i and others i know who did vote to leave would have no problem with that. What our concern is/was the never ending movement of people coming here without proper checks and the effect it was having on our health service, schools etc.
 
parklane1 said:
Not in your eyes maybe but in mine it does. I have never heard so much rubbish and i am surprised to hear you say that.
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Why are you so offended?
I'm not making it personal
I can understand you don't like it - but that does not alter fact. The majority of Brits do not like foreigners.
 
milo said:
I have not seen anyone on here say that the majority of leave voters are xenophobic and I have not spoken to anyone in the real world who has said that either. Most remain voters I have spoken to are just disappointed that so many people were taken in by a campaign that was based on lies and did not set out what should happen if they won.
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Still banging that drum i see, you could say the out vote are/were disappointed by how many people were taken in by those who campaigned on scare stories.

It all depends on what side you are on.
 
StephenH said:
Why are you so offended?
I'm not making it personal
I can understand you don't like it - but that does not alter fact. The majority of Brits do not like foreigners.
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More rubbish, sorry mate you are doing yourself no favours with you last couple of posts.
 
milo said:
I don't believe that is true
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Sadly I didn't up and until a couple of years ago but now I'm convinced.......
But I have spoken to so many who voted first UKIP then out......from 20 to 90.
I was dismayed but what can you do, Sad!
 
StephenH said:
Sadly I didn't up and until a couple of years ago but now I'm convinced.......
But I have spoken to so many who voted first UKIP then out......from 20 to 90.
I was dismayed but what can you do, Sad!
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The leave vote was a broad coalition though and not all of those people were voting out because of immigration. What I do think is a problem is that our politicians have failed to talk about the benefits of immigration and why successive governments have pursued the policies they have. They have been too quick to blame immigration for their own failings and that has created fertile ground for UKIP to exploit.

The sad fact is that UKIP support and votes to leave the EU were highest in the areas in the country least affected by immigration. If you ask people about their personal experiences of immigration, people are largely positive. What they do have is a belief that whatever their person experience, the impact on the country is negative.
 
parklane1 said:
Still banging that drum i see, you could say the out vote are/were disappointed by how many people were taken in by those who campaigned on scare stories.

It all depends on what side you are on.
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I'm not banging any drum. It is a fact that the people leading the leave campaign have backtracked on their main promised since it was over. As for the scare stories, the predictions about the short term economic impact have turned out to be true and the medium term outlook does not currently look any better.
 
milo said:
I'm not banging any drum. It is a fact that the people leading the leave campaign have backtracked on their main promised since it was over. As for the scare stories, the predictions about the short term economic impact have turned out to be true and the medium term outlook does not currently look any better.
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We are going around in circles again. Lets wait and see what happens over the next few months and then we will probably have a better idea at the so called lies/untruths/scare stories that both sides have been guilty of making.
 
Grays_1890 said:
Why offer the vote then??
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I have wondered the same thing numerous times. I suppose the government was not expecting the leave campaign to be run without making any proposals about what our future relationship with Europe would be should they win.
 
parklane1 said:
We are going around in circles again. Lets wait and see what happens over the next few months and then we will probably have a better idea at the so called lies/untruths/scare stories that both sides have been guilty of making.
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We do not have to go around in circles, I have tried to direct the conversation away from the referendum campaign and towards where we should go from here.
 
Cameron offered the vote to the people as PM, you would assume it was offered to the people in good faith......."The EU, you decide".

For him to only have a plan for one outcome would therefore make a mockery of offering the vote in the first place, its like saying "you the people of the UK decide on being in and out the EU, but if you choose out I will not follow it through", that then isn't a referendum is it? Thats just a token offer of a vote because he should have been saying "I promised the people the vote, I will respect the outcome and I will act on the result on behalf of the majority of the people". Its exactly the same thing as being elected as PM in the first place.

Who else should have had a plan? A Labour leave MP with absolutely no power? Nigel Farage? Who does not even hold a seat?

I don't care about the inside politics on all this and I am not naive. The PM offered me the referendum, I voted the same way as 52% of the country so he should see it through. My view on that is not waiving
 
Grays_1890 said:
Cameron offered the vote to the people as PM, you would assume it was offered to the people in good faith......."The EU, you decide".

For him to only have a plan for one outcome would therefore make a mockery of offering the vote in the first place, its like saying "you the people of the UK decide on being in and out the EU, but if you choose out I will not follow it through", that then isn't a referendum is it? Thats just a token offer of a vote because he should have been saying "I promised the people the vote, I will respect the outcome and I will act on the result on behalf of the majority of the people". Its exactly the same thing as being elected as PM in the first place.

Who else should have had a plan? A Labour leave MP with absolutely no power? Nigel Farage? Who does not even hold a seat?

I don't care about the inside politics on all this and I am not naive. The PM offered me the referendum, I voted the same way as 52% of the country so he should see it through. My view on that is not waiving
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He would be on a hiding to nothing if he had stayed on because the leave campaign made contradictory promises that are impossible to deliver. That no one credible from the leave campaign remains in the race to replace him speaks volumes.

How do you think that we should go forward from here?
 
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