• Dear Guest, Please note that adult content is not permitted on this forum. We have had our Google ads disabled at times due to some posts that were found from some time ago. Please do not post adult content and if you see any already on the forum, please report the post so that we can deal with it. Adult content is allowed in the glory hole - you will have to request permission to access it. Thanks, scara

Politics, politics, politics

parklane1 said:
Well without going into a war and peace answer the simple answer is a fairer one. Hope for the young familys starting off on married life that they will be able to get on the housing ladder which at the moment is not open to a lot of them. For those who need a doctors appoint that they will not have to wait weeks to do so ( that's if there any surgery still open where they live). You will be able to attend a Hospital and not have to wait in corridors on trolly's hoping to see a doctor before its too late.

Parents being able to get their kids into a local school and not have to travel miles to find one. I could go on but you get the picture, the plain truth is the system is not working and one of the reasons is the barriers we face from the EU. I understand those in the City are making shedloads from the EU but they are a minority and are only thinking of themselves. Take Scara i usually do not agree with most of his views and he mine but when he said he was voting remain he did so for one reason, his pocket. Now that is selfish but at least he was being honest unlike a lot of those i have come across who voted remain and excused it with scare stories about what a tragedy it would be/happen if we came out.

I dare say some will disagree with what i have said, it matters not as its what i and many others believe. I started off by saying i was not going to do a war and peace answer so i think its best to finish this.
Click to expand...

Your vision for a post-EU United Kingdom is certainly one we would all like to see. I don't think your post was 'war and peace' by any means. I like to hear different points of view. My question could have been posed differently - i.e.what solution to leaving the EU would give you the environment you ideally want?
So for example, would it be:
- Totally out - no single market access (tariffs instead), no freedom of movement, no financial contribution, no EU-imposed rules;
- Single market access, freedom of movement, some financial contribution, limited EU-imposed rules;
- Some other combination that might be realistically achieved.

Would you allow EU immigration to be capped at current levels, or would you look to remove some or all of those here now (or at the time we officially leave)?
Would reducing EU immigration allow us to keep current low levels of unemployment?
Would the expected slow-down in economic growth (accepted to various degrees by economists on both sides of the argument) adversely impact investment in public services such as the NHS and education? Would we have to increase borrowing to sustain current levels of funding?
Are the burdens on the NHS really due to the EU, or does a large part of the problem lie with targets and extra administrative burdens placed on primary healthcare? i.e. would the resource issue we see now really go away in a non-EU world?
There are undoubtedly rich people working in the City who benefit from trading with and selling services into the EU - but this also generates significant wealth for the rest of the UK. What would replace that if 'passporting' of financial services is no longer allowed?

There are loads of questions that one side could ask of the other. I am not trying to catch you or anyone out here. I am genuinely interested, if we are going to change the current set-up, what the alternative might look like.
I voted Remain, but I was very borderline and could have voted the other way if the Leave campaign could have given feasible options to the points above, and others.
Now, I have unintendedly turned this into my own war and peace posting but I would be interested to hear your views, and those of other Leavers, on the points above.
 
DTA said:
You dont think a lot of what you say is down to austerity instead? And unsustainable historically low intereat rates?
Click to expand...

There are many reasons for what is happening, but one of them is that we have too many people trying to be looked after by a underfunded system and part of that is down to being in the EU. However there is no point in going on with the same debates that were aired by both sides of the debate before the vote was taken.

The result is in some are happy and some are sad and most still believe that their opinion is the right one and i see no point in starting it all off again.
 
I couldn't get past the facts that:

A) He is from Liverpool - Out of all the areas in the North of England Liverpool voted remain
B) He has an Ulster accent - Ulster voted remain.
C) His surname is Dougan - Irish in origin.
D) He might have a slight bias.....................

milo said:
Click to expand...
 
parklane1 said:
There are many reasons for what is happening, but one of them is that we have too many people trying to be looked after by a underfunded system and part of that is down to being in the EU. However there is no point in going on with the same debates that were aired by both sides of the debate before the vote was taken.

The result is in some are happy and some are sad and most still believe that their opinion is the right one and i see no point in starting it all off again.
Click to expand...

Genuine question here: what part of that is down to being part of the eu? Considering that most imigrants i believe come from outside the eu. Not trying to be funny or anything like that, i normally find myself agreeing with a lot or your political views so want to understand why our views are so different in this instance.
 
mephitis said:
I couldn't get past the facts that:

A) He is from Liverpool - Out of all the areas in the North of England Liverpool voted remain
B) He has an Ulster accent - Ulster voted remain.
C) His surname is Dougan - Irish in origin.
D) He might have a slight bias.....................
Click to expand...

Top analyst of his arguments there.:)
 
People seemed to want the perfect scenario for the UK, that isn't how it works, we have to give to get. Fee of th EU we suffer, with the EU we suffer. Which way do we suffer more? Free from EU for me. Th small caveats are the key. We need a decent government to keep us strong and able to gain from the EU. The whole immigration thing is not as simple as the angry patriots think it is because it doesn't impact non EU migration which is what bothers most of the patriots, the brown people bit had nothing to do with this referendum.

Anyway we have voted out, by a small margin but enough, now we need the right leader to stop a bad recession and lead the UK to prosperity. But we can't forget lovely Scotland who might stick a pole up our backsides.

Bit of a mess really.
 
LutonSpurs said:
. The whole immigration thing is not as simple as the angry patriots think it is because it doesn't impact non EU migration which is what bothers most of the patriots, the brown people bit had nothing to do with this referendum.
Click to expand...
Indeed, I had my hair cut last week in London, by a chap with very broken English. We discussed Brexit and were being quite PC. Turns out he is Iranian and has been here seven years, has two young kids. We agreed that if people come here to work and pay taxes that is fine, but they shouldn't come to claim benefits; everyone should be welcome if they contribute. And then he suddenly says "this country is so strange, you let in Muslims, they have eight children, there are more mosques than churches, soon this country will be more Muslim than English" and clearly thought that was the key issue linked to Brexit debate
 
DTA said:
Genuine question here: what part of that is down to being part of the eu? Considering that most imigrants i believe come from outside the eu. Not trying to be funny or anything like that, i normally find myself agreeing with a lot or your political views so want to understand why our views are so different in this instance.
Click to expand...

This thread is full of reasons why people voted for both remain and leave and i doubt after GHod knows how many pages on the subject many ( if any) would/have changed their views. It's getting to the stage where most ( if not all) are just rehashing the same rhetoric and going around in circles ( including me).

But i will answer you for the main reason you have a open mind about what i and others have posted, open borders is one of the main reasons we are struggling to cope, to many people and not enough resources to help/cope with them. We seem to have no control on the many freeloaders that come over from the EU, i have said many times that i would like a Australian set up where we accept people from abroad if they fulfill the criteria to fill jobs we have vacancies in.

But as i said earlier i do not expect some to agree with my opinion just as i do not agree with theirs, i just feel that the majority of what is happening in this thread is rehashing the same thing over and over again and i doubt it will change any minds on either opinion. The vote has been made and the majority have made their feelings felt, now for me what we need to do is all pull together and make sure we move forward not going over and over the same ground. Of course as i have said that is only my opinion and i am sure their will be some who will disagree.
 
parklane1 said:
This thread is full of reasons why people voted for both remain and leave and i doubt after GHod knows how many pages on the subject many ( if any) would/have changed their views. It's getting to the stage where most ( if not all) are just rehashing the same rhetoric and going around in circles ( including me).

But i will answer you for the main reason you have a open mind about what i and others have posted, open borders is one of the main reasons we are struggling to cope, to many people and not enough resources to help/cope with them. We seem to have no control on the many freeloaders that come over from the EU, i have said many times that i would like a Australian set up where we accept people from abroad if they fulfill the criteria to fill jobs we have vacancies in.

But as i said earlier i do not expect some to agree with my opinion just as i do not agree with theirs, i just feel that the majority of what is happening in this thread is rehashing the same thing over and over again and i doubt it will change any minds on either opinion. The vote has been made and the majority have made their feelings felt, now for me what we need to do is all pull together and make sure we move forward not going over and over the same ground. Of course as i have said that is only my opinion and i am sure their will be some who will disagree.
Click to expand...

But aren't EU migrants net tax contributors to the economy? Also, non-EU migrants make up the majority of immigration into the UK; EU migrants are the minority. So why couldn't we have limited non-EU immigration? Or maybe that has economic benefits also?

Also, the Australian points system has led to levels of immigration a twice the rate the UK has. It's no panacea.
 
milo said:
Curiouser and curiouser

https://twitter.com/x/status/749536352748855296
Click to expand...

She was very definite in that speech 3 years ago that there needed to be a "reformed relationship" between the UK and EU. Obviously Cameron has been working hard in that time to push through changes for our benefit in that relationship and has hit a brick wall in each occasion. The EU have not been and are not interested in changing.

It is perfectly fair then that someone like Leadsom, who has been working very closely herself with the EU in recent years, is allowed to change her mind and now say that the UK will be better off out of the EU even if in the short term it is going to cause problems.

It's a long speech that she gave but tbh she comes across as very smart and clear that the EU needed to be willing to change from the status quo.
 
milo said:
Curiouser and curiouser

https://twitter.com/x/status/749536352748855296
Click to expand...
She's covered that in an interview today (or maybe yesterday).

She said that the EU was in massive need of reform. Since Cameron was unable to get that reform she has decided that they are either unwilling or unable to do so. On that basis we are better out.

I don't see anything wrong with that train if thought. Had I not been trying to sell a house at the moment and if my company didn't rely heavily on cheap labour, it would have mirrored my own.
 
scaramanga said:
She's covered that in an interview today (or maybe yesterday).

She said that the EU was in massive need of reform. Since Cameron was unable to get that reform she has decided that they are either unwilling or unable to do so. On that basis we are better out.

I don't see anything wrong with that train if thought. Had I not been trying to sell a house at the moment and if my company didn't rely heavily on cheap labour, it would have mirrored my own.
Click to expand...

We weren't attempting to get massive reform of the EU in our negotiations though. I think that we could have built support for that with northern and eastern European countries many of whom have a similar view of the EU to us.

I haven't seen the interviews that she gave this morning but evidently she also sighted southern European unemployment as a reason for her change of mind which is nonsense because that hasn't changed in the last three years.

It's disappointing to see that she abstained on same sex marriage and very worrying that she hasn't ruled out giving a position to Farage.
 
Frankly how the FT has behaved since the result has been disgusting. I have a sister who works for a law firm and the amount of work they get because of EU law is immense.

So it comes as no surprise that these pieces of sh*ts are trying to do anything to over turn the result knowing full well the politician's will vote against the people's wishes.

I have already said to the wife if this country somehow stays in the EU then we will are off to America. I can not believe how negative people in this country has become.

Rather than looking to the future and new opportunities the constant moaning has shocked me, accept for the students who have been swayed by a decade of propaganda.

Losing the referendum which I expected would not have bothered me, but to see how pathetic such large parts of this countries people are has taken something out of me.
 
parklane1 said:
Hilarious ( not) and childish at the same time, can not say i am surprised though with the general wailing and crying the losers of a democratic vote have been doing.
Click to expand...

Wow. You really are angry at anyone expressing questions regarding the Brexit vote. Surprising. I have to ask though, what (exactly) is 'childish'? It is. The truth. I have patiently and quietly pondered what the Brexit plan is since the vote, and this has been the closest anyone has to an answer! I saw that one of the specific things you hoped for was more access to affordable housing for young families (a fine wish BTW) but my question remains how does Brexit propose to help that become a reality? What is the plan mate?????
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back