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Politics, politics, politics

wiziwig said:
In the 2015 general election, 11.3m people voted the Conservatives into power with 331 seats.

3.8m people also voted UKIP and they got one, yes one seat in the house!

UKIP, is the political party with the third highest number of voters in the UK and it's one solitary MP has been constantly jeered by all the EU luvvies whenever he rose to speak in the House Of Commons.

3.8m have had their voice shut out in the house of commons and their viewpoint ridiculed by the collusion of all the other political parties.

The democractic election you talk of, clearly does not result in democratic representation of the people but instead gives a false impression of how the nation's people view things.
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Proportional representation is an alternative. Lib Dems long argued for it too. It would help small parties, such as UKIP and Greens etc. The last election was exceptional with UKIP getting so few MPs relative to their vote. But they do have 2 MPs in parliment. Even though they didn't 'win' the election.

My point is simply that referendum are not particularly democratic. 'Democracy' is rolled out time and again as some Chariot of right. Almost a religious zeal to it. If something is democratic, don't question it. If a country is not democratic, invade it. Change the regime. Bring democracy to all, and all will be well.

Its far more complex than that and the term shouldn't be rolled out as a shining light of right, without greater questioning imo. And Democracy as we know it faces some massive tests in the west - as western populations shun the views of political classes, reject globalisation and vote for what we used to see as extreme, marginal views.

How can we reject global forces, without harming trade and without being racist? Or do we care if we are a little less affluent, if we can just turn the clock back and have our cosy nations with their traditional identity back? Or is that a misty eyed view of the past? An ageing population doing what all older people tend to do - reminisce for their youth.
 
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I find it hilarious that people are calling themselves 'winners' and others 'losers' amongst this farce. What exactly have we won or lost? The world still spins, the elite still control. And us mugs bicker about it like our opinion in any way matters.


Sitting on my porcelain throne using Fapatalk
 
SpurMeUp said:
How can we reject global forces, without harming trade and without being racist? Or do we care if we are a little less affluent, if we can just turn the clock back and have our cosy nations with their traditional identity back? Or is that a misty eyed view of the past? An ageing population doing what all older people tend to do - reminisce for their youth.
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Not quite sure what you're trying to say here.

How are we rejecting global forces by leaving a restrictive, barriered trading bloc to go and trade with the whole world?
 
Roy1983 said:
Thousands of sore losers currently protesting by marching through London :)
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AuroRaman said:
I find it hilarious that people are calling themselves 'winners' and others 'losers' amongst this farce. What exactly have we won or lost? The world still spins, the elite still control. And us mugs bicker about it like our opinion in any way matters.


Sitting on my porcelain throne using viagra
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If they're on a protest they're losers.
 
scaramanga said:
Not quite sure what you're trying to say here.

How are we rejecting global forces by leaving a restrictive, barriered trading bloc to go and trade with the whole world?
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All over the world, people are voting for anti-immigration, in the view they can get back to a traditional nation. Trump with making America great again and putting up fences, sending people home, LePen in France, UKIP here. Global movements of people are more evident than ever, and many people are voting against it. Imo this has less to do with trade, but the two are connected.
 
Glenda's Legs said:
@parklane1 - you are clearly a Leaver and that is a valid position to hold. Now that the Leave vote has won the day, do you have a sense for what sort of "Leave" environment you personally would like to see?
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Well without going into a war and peace answer the simple answer is a fairer one. Hope for the young familys starting off on married life that they will be able to get on the housing ladder which at the moment is not open to a lot of them. For those who need a doctors appoint that they will not have to wait weeks to do so ( that's if there any surgery still open where they live). You will be able to attend a Hospital and not have to wait in corridors on trolly's hoping to see a doctor before its too late.

Parents being able to get their kids into a local school and not have to travel miles to find one. I could go on but you get the picture, the plain truth is the system is not working and one of the reasons is the barriers we face from the EU. I understand those in the City are making shedloads from the EU but they are a minority and are only thinking of themselves. Take Scara i usually do not agree with most of his views and he mine but when he said he was voting remain he did so for one reason, his pocket. Now that is selfish but at least he was being honest unlike a lot of those i have come across who voted remain and excused it with scare stories about what a tragedy it would be/happen if we came out.

I dare say some will disagree with what i have said, it matters not as its what i and many others believe. I started off by saying i was not going to do a war and peace answer so i think its best to finish this.
 
Is it too much to ask how leaving the EU will help young families get on the housing ladder, get you an appointment with a doc, improve NHS hospitals and create more school places?

Bearing in mind the UK government is borrowing money and in massive debt, and that we've had more immigration from outside the EU (which we control)?

UK tax revenue, which allows spending on new housing and public services, is linked to a healthy economy. Losing city jobs, car manufacturing firms, fresh investment etc. may well have an effect on the economy giving the exchequer less cash for the government to spend.

No one can predict the future however, maybe trade and jobs will not suffer and the economy will become stronger, but where is the logic for this? How and why will it occur?
 
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scaramanga said:
I think we have to take the account of the victim as true until or unless there is conflicting evidence. In this case there hasn't been.
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Why would that be? It wouldn't be because of your prejudice would it? There is NO rational reason to adopt that view at all. As I said previously, I'm glad you are not judge, jury and executioner. :D
 
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SpurMeUp said:
My point is simply that referendum are not particularly democratic.
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No.
I live near Henley on Thames, it is always Tory so voting otherwise is pointless, less democratic than the referendum where every vote counted
 
parklane1 said:
Well without going into a war and peace answer the simple answer is a fairer one. Hope for the young familys starting off on married life that they will be able to get on the housing ladder which at the moment is not open to a lot of them. For those who need a doctors appoint that they will not have to wait weeks to do so ( that's if there any surgery still open where they live). You will be able to attend a Hospital and not have to wait in corridors on trolly's hoping to see a doctor before its too late.

Parents being able to get their kids into a local school and not have to travel miles to find one. I could go on but you get the picture, the plain truth is the system is not working and one of the reasons is the barriers we face from the EU. I understand those in the City are making shedloads from the EU but they are a minority and are only thinking of themselves. Take Scara i usually do not agree with most of his views and he mine but when he said he was voting remain he did so for one reason, his pocket. Now that is selfish but at least he was being honest unlike a lot of those i have come across who voted remain and excused it with scare stories about what a tragedy it would be/happen if we came out.

I dare say some will disagree with what i have said, it matters not as its what i and many others believe. I started off by saying i was not going to do a war and peace answer so i think its best to finish this.
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You dont think a lot of what you say is down to austerity instead? And unsustainable historically low intereat rates?
 
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